Docking and the upcoming home base points system should use mass/block counts, not box sizes.

    Would you prefer sticking with the current/planned system or switch to this?

    • Current/planned system (box size determines home base cost and docking)

      Votes: 11 28.9%
    • Mass-based system (mass determines home base cost and docking)

      Votes: 27 71.1%

    • Total voters
      38
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    But density is a proportion. I can have a 1 density fighter and a 1 density cubenought, or a .87 density frigate, or a .24 density... well, you get the idea. Density calculations won't work because they don't tell you anything about how big the ship is, just how efficient it is with that space. As for density determining shield efficiency... what? Why? Again, the density doesn't matter, just the number of shield blocks. Are you saying that there should be a set proportion of shield blocks per ship that is required to give a certain amount of shielding (like .25 shield blocks gives 20000 shielding), because, no offense, that is a terrible idea.

    I think you might be confusing density with something else. Either that, or I misunderstood your post.
     
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    docking based on dimensions only makes sense. people build docks to hold ships of a certain size, not of a certain mass. its simpler this way.

    besides... we all know that having the box dimension system for homebases determining available faction points vs protection is good for keeping small factions from building giant titan docks, and im all for killing giganticism.

    though, i suppose with the upcoming game mechanic updates, titans will already be super-nerfed anyway, in addition to the planned inventory size limit.

    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    Strange - I'm sorry, you must be mistaken. Density is a proportion of mass to volume, but it also means that density < mass, and that density > volume. In this, you COULD make your ship fit a density requirement by making it enormous, but mostly hollow. This would be counterproductive... therefore, making it easier to have nice interiors, with space, without having to compromise your shield regen or thrust for the sake of getting closer to the required mass or volume. I did not explain (because I would require about 90,000 characters-worth of text to explain) that exceptions should be made where logic is flawed (yes, logic is flawed. no, not my logic, but logic.) and common sense is required. For example, docking areas; if they were following density (mass/volume), they would allow a hollow, 7x7x7 cube to occupy a space where anything with a density less than a ship core could fit. Obviously this must be modified in some way... Obviously as the number becomes smaller and longer, the more irritating it would be to keep track of certain calculations. Though, a system that uses density is already in place, I believe... though slightly modified. If you're wondering what it is, then guess no further, I speak of power generator cubes. Oh how I loathe the cubes, at least make some sort of setup that works best, perhaps something more linear? Like rows or columns of generators being most efficient. Generator cubes only enhance everyone's desire to create insanely large ships... which is why I feel that a system that uses something SIMILAR to density would be desirable, also nerfing shields would be nice... so that it requires more energy to protect hull and other such blocks from damage, the farther away they are, and also having dense plating take a larger toll on shield capabilities... considering the blocks are both farther away, but not equally demanding when it comes to taking the same amount of damage. But if you don't have enough shielding, the demand goes away (shields become overly strained) and the block becomes damaged by enemy (or even allied) fire. Quite a rant... but my explanation, in summation, goes as follows: I desire a system that takes into consideration, both volume and mass, instead of one or the other. It would be nice to see powergen cubes takes the opposite route, considering their overly powered structures demand less space, but reward so much more than they should. Exponential growth of your power generation rates by using less generators? Absurd. An enormous block of shields is able to shield a block 4km away just as well as one that is 4m away? Completely illogical, but not in one of logic's flawed ways.
     
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    Strangebut it also means that density < mass, and that density > volume.
    You can't compare density with mass or volume, that's like saying length > time.

    I think you underestimate how difficult it is to calculate the volume of a bigger ship. Each "air" block within the ships dimensions must be checked for being inside or outside. Imagine a hollow cube, punch a little hole in it and all the inside is suddenly outside. Now imagine a big ship with many rooms and hallways. I don't know how much such calculations would slow down the game, but coding this isn't as trivial as it might seem, and I think it would be a waste of time. Mass on the other hand can be determined very easily.
     
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    Okay, here's the deal. Let's focus on small ships first. Small ships (at least the ones I make) have no interiors. This gives them a density of 1
    A big ship with an interior has a density of, say, .8
    Does that mean that less density = greater cost? That just doesn't make sense. What happens when...
    My big ship has a density of 1
    Now it has the cost of a fighter. If you make higher density cost more, you make fighters completely worthless. There is no good way to make density calculations balanced at all because...

    DENSITY IS A PROPORTION

    That means it's a number between 0 and 1, with 0 meaning 'no blocks at all' and 1 meaning 'all blocks'. As Malacodor said, to compare density and volume or mass is impossible. They have different units entirely.
    If your explanation takes 90,000 characters to write out, maybe you could just give me a summary, because I can't see any way in which density could be turned into a workable ship-measurement system.

    Now power...
    Last I checked, power cubes did buff each other in lines (unless it got changed to boxdims with the update), and besides, I'm gonna need all that space to fill with shields to counteract the huge nerfs you're putting on that system too. Speaking of your shield nerf, are you saying that fully charged shields should drain more power than recharging those same shields does? I could accept some minor upkeep cost, but not that. And there's no reason shield blocks shouldn't be able to protect squares four kilometers away. After all, we don't know how the shield blocks actually work. Are they electromagnetic, or gravitational, or plasma-based, or made of organic proteins, or heat based, or what? The actual shield generators could be present in every block, and the shield blocks just pipe fuel or amino acids to them or whatever. So I think it's important to understand how the system does what it does before you go around calling it absurd.

    Oh, and Malacodor, I think by 'volume', he meant the box size setup we have now. Although, he could have meant actual internal volume, in which case you are right. And what about plexdoors? Do they count as openings, or not? Can you change the volume of your ship by opening the hangar doors? Oof, this is too complicated. Let's just use mass.
     
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    The dimensional system calculates the "volume", and you can compare density to mass and volume, considering they are proportionate. (density = mass/volume) (mass/volume:volume) <- that is a proportion, and volume is volume times greater than density divided by mass (density*volume/mass=1). Also, I stated that I don't want it to be exactly like density, and I pointed out an example of exceptions (for docking purposes), where it takes into consideration the density, mass, and volume, simultaneously. Malacodor, do you really think I meant area? Yes, volume is area, in a three-dimensional perspective, but I was talking about our current box-driven system. I only mention density, because it would affect a couple of things: gravitational attraction (like... having a ship larger than a planet won't attract an asteroid? Wow...), and for not encouraging box-like structures such as death cubes that are 1/4 the size of a ship, while having 3x the energy, shield, and weapon output.

    ...I think I've gone far off the topic of this thread... but I don't think switching to mass, or keeping the same box system would do any good. I just want something that doesn't make me throw my phone off a fifth-story balcony, but still allows me to have something nice to fiddle around with.
     
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    Now, Strange, I understand what you mean, however, I'm talking about having blocks, disconnected from each other, being shielded by shield cubes from afar. If shields were to change to the box system that we know and seemingly despise, shields would not cover the entire ship, but only a certain area (added onto with some multiplier like 1.1x the current shield area), which would be centered (it would be symmetrical as well) around something like a shield computer, shield core, etc. I think that it would be quite nice like that, but also, simply having each individual shield block only shield a certain area, which would as well be added onto with more shield blocks (I don't mean that there would be some sort of shield system that could perpetuate indefinably, only one that would protect blocks within a certain radius), and after all of the ship's blocks are "protected" by the shields, as the range becomes a larger number, the efficiency of the shielding would increase. The only way that I would see the current system as viable, would be with a shield computer, or with shield tanks, considering it has many of the same properties as power generators.

    Onto the power generators. I simply don't want power "cubes" to be viable for exponentially greater amounts of energy than an actual cube of power generators.

    If you still think that I'm overly complicating things, then you're thinking too hard.
     
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    volume is volume times greater than density divided by mass (density*volume/mass=1).
    Only true for volume = 1.

    do you really think I meant area? Yes, volume is area, in a three-dimensional perspective, but I was talking about our current box-driven system. I only mention density, because it would affect a couple of things: gravitational attraction (like... having a ship larger than a planet won't attract an asteroid? Wow...), and for not encouraging box-like structures such as death cubes that are 1/4 the size of a ship, while having 3x the energy, shield, and weapon output.
    If I understand you correctly you want to calculate density by dividing the volume of a ship's bounding box by its mass. With such a system we wouldn't see less death cubes, we'd see death cubes with antennas. Simply add a 50m antenna to a (50m)³ cube an the density is magically cut in half without enlarging the profile much.
     
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    I wonder why no one has brought up limiting ships based on their actual power:
    Since we know the strenght of all weapon groups and the shield strenght (of the ship and its turrets) it is rather easy to calaculate an combat value.
    Just a quick draft of how it could look:
    DPS^Shield factor*AccelerationRatio !!!with rooted values!!! (I know it would be insanely big otherwise oh and,Shield factor=Shield/50000)
    Power generation should be an additional factor on this ,reducing DPS in relation to the power requirement

    Obviously this will require an formula with more work put in it,and less insane high scaling (though docking could scale the same,it would result in an irritating value)

    This would bring the following benefits:
    Interior is free ^^
    Size is free ^^
    Makes sense
    No infinite scaling (well... thats maybe not too good ...)
    slow capitals would actually makes sense to build,since they would be much cheaper to dock
    Improvement of specialized vessels,since using many weapon groups would (in limited scale) increase the requirements.
    your shields can be high as sh*** without strong weapons,allowing transporters

    Possible problems:
    Complicated to predict
    No infinite scaling (Dreadnought nooooooooo)
    Glass-Cannons with pretty low shields that save costs (but if this is possible the game probably has other issues than docking)
     
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    I don't think you're overcomplicating shields and power (too much), just dimensions. I am worried about giving large debuffs to power and shields. I also don't really understand why you think the current system is bad - it's simple enough to work in almost any application, and doesn't limit creativity. You can shield fighters, titans and planets all with the same system, and yet it's still pretty balanced. That sounds good to me. Maybe power should be rebalanced, but then again, I would rather power work in long lines simply because it doesn't take a lot of space, but still scales upward with the ship size. I also know that the Super Schine Team has said they want to buff shields so that battles actually take strategy rather than a few seconds of intense cannon fire followed by core drilling. As for despising box dimensions, that's because they're inaccurate measurements of a ship. This shield change would also encourage more Noob Cubes, since anything that relies on boxdims encourages cubification.

    And if you're complaining about large ships not attracting asteroids, you should be playing Space Engineers. Planets aren't more than a couple kilometers in diameter. You can travel between planets in minutes, not days. It's a little late to try to add large-body realism.

    And I feel compelled to point out that M/V =/= V.
    A few equations:
    Assuming M = 300,
    V >= 300 (volume can't be greater than mass)
    D = M/V (definition of density)
    D <= 1 (According to step 2 above)
    If we say V = 400,
    D = 300/400 = 900/1200 = 3000000/4000000 = 3/4 (All these ships would be equal according to the density system.)

    But you're right, we're getting off topic. I just don't understand how you can use density for any decent calculations.

    Cool3303 that's not a bad idea, but it might be trying to add too many things at once, IDK. It's definitely important to have infinite scalability, although I don't see how it would be too much of a problem with your system. The only problem is that there are so many systems to keep track of, and DPS can be harder to calculate than it seems initially. What about turrets and docked ships? Or cloaking/jamming?
    If you can figure out some way to take everything into account and still have it stay balanced and simple enough to understand, I'll be happy. But keep in mind, docking requires some basic knowledge of the ship's size to keep away from ugly clipping. You could make it something like the idea this handsome genius came up with: http://starmadedock.net/threads/docking-clamps.1262/
    or make it dimension-based, or something else, but it has to avoid clipping.

    This post is way too long. TL;DR: Keep it simple, scalable and balanced. And cool looking. That's important.
     
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    Well I thought this was only about the scaling of the docking requirements =P
    It wouldn't really add too many things at once,just get a very complex rating.Since that would need to increase exponentially (because where is the point in linear increase,right?) It wouldnt be "infinitively" since somewhen the increase in cost is too big.
    Starmade already has all the lists,especially the weapon/dps list(it would need insane calculation powers if it wouldnt), and the weapons scale in an very similar way to the power requirement so that wouldn't be a problem.
    Docked ships are listed too,their DPS would be added . cloaking and jamming is irrevelant ,the ships themself aren't big threads right now and why would someone want them to be expensive in docking?!?!
    Since I am no big mathematician I won't provide an exact formula (upcoming balance changes are to big too) but I think you got the gist of it.
    Starmade is fully capable of checking if ships are placeable (without relying on X-Y-Z,confirmed by grandmaster schema himself) So this mechanic could be used to check if the docking would be viable,the current mechanic is just inplace to allow an customisation,not to work nicely.
     
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    Mass of docked objects are already counted. In addition, mass is very easy to check on a ship-by-ship basis.
     
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    Strange, You're confusing what I said. Malacodor, you're also confusing what I said. density = mass/volume, therefore, if you multiply density by volume, you obtain mass. And if you were to divide mass by mass, it would equal 1. I never said mass/volume = volume... that's just plain stupid. My ideas may be a compromise, but it's the most I can do when no one wants a buggy, computer intensive game.


    Here's my statement: If volume < n, and density > 1, then the ship is too massive to be docked on a docking module with the limiting area of n, and the weight distribution limit of 1 block (though docks should be able to be customized so that you could require a higher distribution, or lower distribution of mass). (otherwise, what's the point to having a mass-based system? You could have enormous ships that are hollow, and smaller ships that are packed full, while still having the same mass.) My suggestion was to have both mass and volume (obviously that annoying box system) being taken into consideration. Small ships shouldn't be too massive, should they? I've ceased to care about death cubes, but a way to limit their functionality would be to have power generators only give bonuses to power generation when in linear structures (basicly straight lines), and have AMCs and missiles not only benefit from having linear structures as well (like the salvage cannons), but would only connect to other missile launchers and AMCs that are both oriented in the same direction, and are in front, or behind one another (this would most certainly prevent use of death cubes... and would make a lot more sense, other than the missile systems obviously). Then again... if you wanted to have missile systems' stats upgraded... lines of missile launchers, one in front of the other, would allow for larger, faster, more explosive, and more damaging missiles to be launched, at the cost of reload time.
     
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    Lecic

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    Why are we making this so complicated? Just use mass. You'll get basically the same effect.
     
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    Aw... Malacodor is butthurt because I corrected him. I know this because he decided not to reply, while he decided to reject my proposition.

    Lecic, Eh... mass would be okay for general purposes, but there should still be a size limit. I just want the power gens, shields, and weapon systems to stop being so overpowered. Death cubes would still be encouraged, even with a mass based system. Limiting mass to something like.... 400 for a 5x5x5 block of space would mean that the box could not be fully packed with blocks. Remember, this post is about docking methods... and we don't want death cubes to park in our ships.

    Edit: Yep... That was my first thoughts... now I've recognized that if the system were to change to mass-based, the same effect would come, and people would want the box system again. That, or complain that they want a system that works better. Don't try to fix something that isn't broken, and can't be improved with the tools provided. Get better tools.
     
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    Lecic

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    Aw... Malacodor is butthurt because I corrected him. I know this because he decided not to reply, while he decided to reject my proposition.

    Lecic, Eh... mass would be okay for general purposes, but there should still be a size limit. I just want the power gens, shields, and weapon systems to stop being so overpowered. Death cubes would still be encouraged, even with a mass based system. Limiting mass to something like.... 400 for a 5x5x5 block of space would mean that the box could not be fully packed with blocks. Remember, this post is about docking methods... and we don't want death cubes to park in our ships.
    First off, Malacodor is correct. You could just add a handful of antennas to your density based system to exploit the ever-loving hell out of it.

    Next, Mass would be better than density in all cases. Mass based would not encourage death cubes. With mass, you get a minor advantage for using a cube design, because provided internals are identical, the ship that is not a cube will have slightly more hull due to interiors and cosmetic additions. With density, you can easily exploit it by putting a 10m pole off each side to vastly decrease density.
     
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    Then, let me disprove your point with its most imminent flaw. With mass, a ship with the same mass as a death cube would more than likely have a disadvantage because of how power gens and weapon systems function. Death cubes can have a larger power supply, meaning that, to match the ship's power supply would reduce its mass.
     
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    Every system has flaws. If you don't want flaws, then please, don't use a computer ever again. Ever. Don't use a car, don't use any electronic device, because it may have Java-based programs on it. If you want to say that flawed functionality beats flawed functionality, then you're just unreasonable.
     
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    Docking shouldn't be the most immediate thing to fix in StarMade. Other functions that cause docking to be an issue should be handled before, as they are the principles that are gathered to form the idea of docking.
     

    Lecic

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    Then, let me disprove your point with its most imminent flaw. With mass, a ship with the same mass as a death cube would more than likely have a disadvantage because of how power gens and weapon systems function. Death cubes can have a larger power supply, meaning that, to match the ship's power supply would reduce its mass.
    The ship with the same mass as the death cube might have a slight power decrease, but you can just as easily fit large power set ups in a non-death cube as well. True, death cubes will probably remain the most efficient ships in the game for possibly the rest of its life span, but that doesn't mean we should use a density based docking system over a mass based. Mass based would be the fairest and most logical solution. You have ship that weighs X mass, you need a magnet or whatever the docks work with that can hold X mass.