Dev Blog : March 30th 2015

    Joined
    Aug 11, 2013
    Messages
    242
    Reaction score
    117
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    Probably different door sizes/shapes, and rounded edges or unrounded edges.
    The main thing is the ring itself, and the general shape of it. It doesn't matter whether the corners are rounded or not, because it still "seals" regardless.

    Here is the basic shape of my (subject to change) USD. Can we call this USD type 1? (totally not full of myself)

     

    Valiant70

    That crazy cyborg
    Joined
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages
    2,189
    Reaction score
    1,167
    • Thinking Positive
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 4
    *scouter beeps* ...
    THE HYPE LEVEL IS OVER EIGHT THOUSAND!?

    I imagine people will start making large doors rail things instead of plexdoors in order to make them cooler. Oh, the hype man. Is the docking and rail system coming out first and turrets later?
     
    Joined
    Aug 11, 2013
    Messages
    242
    Reaction score
    117
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    Megacrafter127

    I don't actully understand what you're disagreeing with here. As long as two USD ports have the same ring dimensions (rounded corners don't matter), and have docking blocks in the same or mirrored positions, they should be compatible. If they have more docking blocks than that they should still be compatible.
     

    Bench

    Creative Director
    Joined
    Jun 24, 2013
    Messages
    1,046
    Reaction score
    1,745
    • Schine
    • Wired for Logic
    • Legacy Citizen 6
    I think the USD should be a mini airlock area. docking on either side so that it attaches obviously. docking orientated so that any ship could comfortably dock to it. I also thing the interior should have a gravity system so that no matter what orientation it gets docked to and whatever orientation the ship docks to it, you can walk into the USD, close the airlock and then click a button to orientate yourself to the correct gravity direction for the station you're walking into. That way it is super adapatable
     
    Joined
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages
    2,932
    Reaction score
    460
    • Hardware Store
    I don't actully understand what you're disagreeing with here. As long as two USD ports have the same ring dimensions (rounded corners don't matter), and have docking blocks in the same or mirrored positions, they should be compatible. If they have more docking blocks than that they should still be compatible.
    I'm just saying that, even if we only use a 5x5 ring, there are still many combinations which may be compatible or incompatible(the best {although maybe impractical} example would be a male/female USD port [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_of_connectors_and_fasteners])
     
    Joined
    Aug 11, 2013
    Messages
    242
    Reaction score
    117
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    Megacrafter127

    Oh yeah, of course. I reckon we'll need to see how the actual docking blocks work before we finalise the pattern of docking pattern.

    Bench gave me a great idea for stations and much larger ships, where problems with male/female orientations can be solved easily with some exta space. Two rings sharing a side, and the docking block in the shared side. Most of this is simply conjecture until things have been finalised more thouroughly and we can test things out.
     
    Joined
    May 6, 2013
    Messages
    303
    Reaction score
    147
    • Legacy Citizen 5
    I have a few questions related to the new docking:
    1. Will it be possible to overcome the docking force with thrusters or collisions? Push/pull beams?
    2. Will docked entities be able to exert force on the objects they are docked to?
    3. Will the new docking blocks be able to be activated by logic?
    4. Will they emit a logic signal when activated/deactivated?
    5. Will there be angled docking points?
    6. Will there be large CPU load spent calculating bounding boxes of docked entities?
    7. Will the docked entities be treated as boxes, or as their true shapes?

    I also am worried for turret functionality: I can see a re-vamping of the current turret mechanics that would require turrets clipping inside the main ship, or turret barrels clipping inside the turret.



    I am very much excited for the potential for:
    1. Tiny docked entities
    2. ship form-fitting armor (assuming bounding box collisions are resolved)
    3. concealing panels
    4. more attractive docked objects
    5. Functional (?) Gripping claws!
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Blodge

    Crimson-Artist

    Wiki Administrator
    Joined
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages
    1,667
    Reaction score
    1,641
    • Video Genius
    • Competition Winner - Stations
    • Wiki Contributor Gold
    You will still be able to use a docking beam of sorts, but it won't be from the core and more likely associated with the block itself. The idea being that if you're in a complicated maneuver then you could beam from your docking block to the block you wish to dock to. Then, like a tractor beam, a docking sequence takes over which will bring you in for those two blocks to dock together. You will still be be able to dock through the alignment and pilot method but we recognise there are these situations so providing this alternative where it isn't an instant snap to dock, but a more sure-fire way of aligning and docking, is needed.
    hopefully schema can get the AI to intelligently recognize how to orient the ship to allow for a smooth docking sequence. i'm also guess that if this works out it will pave the way for the "Return to Dock" command for the AI that every ones been begging for.

    also, do the docking blocks have to be capable of touching in order to dock? like if i were to put the docking block just under my ship core and place 50 blocks under that would the game still dock my ship at the same position?
     
    Joined
    Dec 2, 2013
    Messages
    232
    Reaction score
    98
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    • Purchased!
    • Competition Winner - Small Fleets
    in an ideal world you could ideally land and align your docking magnet with the other one and when they get within range then that container would snap onto your ship and you would be able to fly away with it. It does depend however on how we setup those initial blocks though to make sure you don't snap your ship to the container instead. So this one I will still need to confirm.

    Hmmm.... I see the potential issue there. What about having the docking beam work like the marker gun?

    Primary fire is the "dock-to" command and the secondary fire is the "pick-up" command.

    Since the docking enhancers will be mass based I would think accidentally "docking to" a cargo container wouldn't be an issue....

    hopefully schema can get the AI to intelligently recognize how to orient the ship to allow for a smooth docking sequence. i'm also guess that if this works out it will pave the way for the "Return to Dock" command for the AI that every ones been begging for.

    also, do the docking blocks have to be capable of touching in order to dock? like if i were to put the docking block just under my ship core and place 50 blocks under that would the game still dock my ship at the same position?
    Currently the docking points have to touching. I raged a little bit at first.... It makes fighter docking a little wonky... But you can get around that by building a little fighter "clamp" or something to make it look a little more authentic.

    The true beauty of this new docking system is that you can change docking orientations on the fly. Doesn't quite fit? No worries, just rotate the docking block a couple times and your good to go!
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Blodge

    Bench

    Creative Director
    Joined
    Jun 24, 2013
    Messages
    1,046
    Reaction score
    1,745
    • Schine
    • Wired for Logic
    • Legacy Citizen 6
    I have a few questions related to the new docking:
    1. Will it be possible to overcome the docking force with thrusters or collisions? Push/pull beams? the radius in which the docking force would act upon you is only a few blocks wide. Once docked then you're docked, no one can knock you off, you need to undock to disconnect.
    2. Will docked entities be able to exert force on the objects they are docked to? give me an example
    3. Will the new docking blocks be able to be activated by logic? they will have some level of logic control
    4. Will they emit a logic signal when activated/deactivated? yes they will, same as how docking modules do now via adjacent activation module
    5. Will there be angled docking points? there's no plans for this at the moment.
    6. Will there be large CPU load spent calculating bounding boxes of docked entities? there shouldn't be according to Schema, he's done quite a nice job on the collision code.
    7. Will the docked entities be treated as boxes, or as their true shapes? true shapes
    also, do the docking blocks have to be capable of touching in order to dock? like if i were to put the docking block just under my ship core and place 50 blocks under that would the game still dock my ship at the same position?
    yes they need to touch to dock, that's how magnets work.
     

    Thalanor

    CEO Snataris Colonial Fleetyards
    Joined
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages
    818
    Reaction score
    708
    • Master Builder Bronze
    • Thinking Positive
    • Legacy Citizen 3
    :O No longer do I have to fit ugly landing platforms on my ISS- style modular station.

    Now I am at a loss of words here due to the awesomeness overflow with all the logic and docking options. Also +1 to 3x3 interior (5x5 exterior) standard docking collar.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Blodge
    Joined
    Feb 27, 2015
    Messages
    16
    Reaction score
    4
    • Purchased!
    Oh boy! Hype is real! Good job ppl!

    (I dont wanna look like an ungrateful ass but any chance you could add another logic block - XOr? Cus it is really common(at least for me) and it takes a lot of space if u need to use more than 2 inputs, even with 2 its a bit annoying...)
     

    Valiant70

    That crazy cyborg
    Joined
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages
    2,189
    Reaction score
    1,167
    • Thinking Positive
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 4
    yes they need to touch to dock, that's how magnets work.
    Well, the way you did that made it hard to quote you... well, whatever.

    Docked entities exerting a force on the objects they are docked to: Let's say I dock to a larger ship. Can I fire my thrusters and cause the larger ship to move slightly?

    Angle/wedge docks: I strongly urge you to consider this as it is a much requested feature and would make a vast difference in many unique ship designs, especially when dealing with turrets.

    My own question (I know you might need to ask Schema): Will the turret revamp fix the annoying "blind spot" where turrets cannot aim 90* upward? That's been causing issues for my recent ship designs because I can't fit turrets at enough different angles to cover those blind spots and still look good.

    The main thing is the ring itself, and the general shape of it. It doesn't matter whether the corners are rounded or not, because it still "seals" regardless.

    Here is the basic shape of my (subject to change) USD. Can we call this USD type 1? (totally not full of myself)

    I like this, but I would add a docking block at the bottom center and a plexdoor that closes all but the bottom and center two blocks. This will allow a ship with a 1m wide, 2m high port to dock to the same port. I currently have a shuttle that would need such a modification to be able to dock practically to this device. Re-designing the shuttle to fit a 3x3 opening would compromise its purpose (or at the very least its looks) as a super-compact vehicle.

    The other option would be creating a USD type 2 to accommodate tiny vessels and ones preferring a smaller hatch for cosmetic reasons, although I like this option less because it would be less universal.

    I'd also like to have a way to dock the top hatch of a small vessel like a fighter to the station and jump or ride an elevator five blocks up into the station.
     

    Bench

    Creative Director
    Joined
    Jun 24, 2013
    Messages
    1,046
    Reaction score
    1,745
    • Schine
    • Wired for Logic
    • Legacy Citizen 6
    Well, the way you did that made it hard to quote you... well, whatever.

    Docked entities exerting a force on the objects they are docked to: Let's say I dock to a larger ship. Can I fire my thrusters and cause the larger ship to move slightly?

    Angle/wedge docks: I strongly urge you to consider this as it is a much requested feature and would make a vast difference in many unique ship designs, especially when dealing with turrets.

    My own question (I know you might need to ask Schema): Will the turret revamp fix the annoying "blind spot" where turrets cannot aim 90* upward? That's been causing issues for my recent ship designs because I can't fit turrets at enough different angles to cover those blind spots and still look good.
    Ah okay, that will depend what happens with the thrust update that will happen in the future.

    Angle/wedge docks will come down to what schema thinks is possible performance wise as it introduces new orientations.
     

    Snk

    Joined
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages
    1,186
    Reaction score
    155
    • Legacy Citizen
    • Top Forum Contributor
    Guys. Remotely detonated bombs.

    Also, would it be possible to make thrusters be activatable by logic? Seems appropriate for this update.

    Thanks Schema!
     

    Thalanor

    CEO Snataris Colonial Fleetyards
    Joined
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages
    818
    Reaction score
    708
    • Master Builder Bronze
    • Thinking Positive
    • Legacy Citizen 3
    I can't test it out yet from here - would that USD type 1 allow for ships with port/starboard docking colors? I really do not like landing "platforms", and would rather dock the ships at the sides of things (with both the ship and the station gravity facing the same "down" of course).
     
    Joined
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages
    2,932
    Reaction score
    460
    • Hardware Store
    I have a few questions related to the new docking:
    1. Will it be possible to overcome the docking force with thrusters or collisions? Push/pull beams?
    the radius in which the docking force would act upon you is only a few blocks wide. Once docked then you're docked, no one can knock you off, you need to undock to disconnect.
    Why not have it like this: at the end of each tick of the physics engine, (directly before movement is applied) The difference in the velocity vectors of mothership(before tick and current) is calculated and multiplied by the mass of the docked entity(or mass of the "mother"-ship, if it is indeed movable and has a smaller mass than the docked ship). The result of this calculation, which is the accelerating force, will be compared to sum of the docking-forces(if multiple dock-connections will be a thing, otherwise only the max-force of the docking-connection). If the force exceeds it, the connection is lost. (the max-force will depend on the mass-limit of the dock[a.k.a how many enhancers are connected])
    2. Will docked entities be able to exert force on the objects they are docked to?
    give me an example
    Ship A is the "mother"-ship, Ship B is the docked ship. Ship B is manned and fires thrusters/push-/pull-effect.
    yes they need to touch to dock, that's how magnets work.
    That is not how magnets work…The magnetic force will be very weak, as it is antiproportional to the square of the distance (assuming radial field of magnetic monopole (magnetic monopoles are physically impossible, but let's ignore that for a second). However, let's simply say the force is negligable once the distance exceeds 1 block.
     
    Joined
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages
    2,811
    Reaction score
    960
    • Councillor 3 Gold
    • Wired for Logic
    • Top Forum Contributor
    yes they need to touch to dock, that's how magnets work.
    So all ships will absolutely have to have a docking receiver in order to dock? No more docking cores, or if your receiver gets shoot off you can no longer dock your ship until it is manually repaired? I love the idea of being able to customize how a ship docks I really don't want to have an ugly spot on every single ship. Even if it could be say below a single layer of hull and it makes the hull block on top of it the docking point. Still I would prefer the core be the central location for docking if no other dock is present, that way we still have a fallback or a way to dock smaller objects that may not have the room for a docking receiver.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Blodge