Database Window makes game unplayable

[CyberTao]

Eh, communities will sometimes do things to ya. This is drawing attention to an issue that won't be hotfixed anytime soon. Might come with the next update if you can convince someone involved that it is important/urgent enough. All this is doing is making a known issue more well known. Telling all the new players how to use this feature is basically giving up on proper server management. None of the major or established factions on any other server have this issue. Some might be aware, but it is a non-issue most times, because a person can't be on a server 24/7 to exploit it against everyone. Hell, if anyone tried it in EE, I'd expect them to crushed and/or spawn camped by several major players (Admins may or may not be included) because it just ruins any fun you can have in starmade.

Banning, counter harassment, travelling in a group, or even using a cloaked/jammed ship all render this abuse nil, and if continued for long enough by a large enough percentage of the server, the abuser wont last long (bored and leave). This is a community that has long since learnt how to handle those types of players, they aren't welcomed most times.

Everyone here is a little bitter. It's the result of a small community with sometimes greatly varying ideas of fun colliding for a year. From Ridik to chairs to debates over O2 and hunger systems. So many topics, so many differing opinions that ended in a stale back-and-forth. The community has well concreted opinions on different ideas and concepts, we know the hows and whys of many things, and I guess we aren't used to people who do not.

 

[Lidren]

A: Planned testing feature, not bug.

B: You're welcome to try and pull this on any PvP server. The players will tear you apart in minutes and laugh.

 

[Noc]

The replies here have been very disturbing. This is not an exploit in the sense that you should not share how to reproduce, it's a feature that needs repaired if you want PVP. Not person vs person PVP but group vs group PVP that this game seems well positioned to provide. There are tactics for dealing with cloaky assassin ships if you know you are being hunted that moment, but they require building your ship with certain features. It's an alpha is the dumbest reason I've ever heard for suppressing discussion on features that need improved; that's supposed to be the POINT of an alpha.

If I exploited this without being a raging asshole about it, the problem would persist but would be very hard to prove. And if I turn around and blame F3 for every death, how do you prove who's right?

 

[Lidren]

Maybe you don't understand. It does not need improvement because it is temporary. It is supposed to be there, and will be removed/restricted to admins when it's no longer needed constantly for testing purposes. There are many servers who have operated for years without this being a problem. PvP or not, group or 1v1, this is only a problem to you.

Even with this in the game, it is hardly usable for what you claim it to be useful for. Again, jumping onto any PvP server and deciding to exploit this would only result in your rapid, and likely repeated demise. Also likely followed by a ban.

We are not suppressing anything, we are telling you you are incorrect in your original assumption that it is in any way a bug or unintentional.

 

[Noc]

Maybe you don't understand. It does not need improvement because it is temporary. It is supposed to be there, and will be removed/restricted to admins when it's no longer needed constantly for testing purposes. There are many servers who have operated for years without this being a problem. PvP or not, group or 1v1, this is only a problem to you.

Even with this in the game, it is hardly usable for what you claim it to be useful for. Again, jumping onto any PvP server and deciding to exploit this would only result in your rapid, and likely repeated demise. Also likely followed by a ban.

We are not suppressing anything, we are telling you you are incorrect in your original assumption that it is in any way a bug or unintentional.

You say it's intentional. What positive feature does it provide that server logs do not?

 

[Lidren]

You say it's intentional. What positive feature does it provide that server logs do not?

For one, the server logs are uselessly over bloated for certain tasks that only require limited information as opposed to the whole shebang. The /search admin function is buggy at best and the db access allows it to be circumvented in some cases. Primarily it can be, and is, used to locate and track entities that may be causing crashes or extreme latency.

 

[Noc]

So all the respondents here never use the feature, but insist it is a good thing to leave in game because they do use the feature... Which is it? This is on the order of a 5 second fix (comment out the F3 binding for non-dev builds) and people are openly hostile to anyone pointing out how serious an issue it is. Would I love to see more time spent in the future making it optional or an admin only tool? Sure. I'd even think it's worth waiting for if it's right around the corner. Asking for news on an ETA is not unreasonable for such a critical flaw.

Btw, for all the commentators here talking about "it's there for testing" you really don't seem to understand how to navigate it. I won't detail tips on using it more efficiently, but if you dig around you would see that tracking people is not the herculean task some are making it out to be. If the game is about exploring and expanding, hugging your singular invulnerable point is not a reasonable solution.

Ultimately it's an alpha; rough edges are expected. But they are also expected to be fixed. As a player it takes significantly more effort and resources to defend against than it does to grief. As an admin, it increases the labor required to run a pvp server and given the free state of the game a server cannot be open to new players without allowing free access to those willing to grief. For the developer, a hotfix is trivial, and better solutions can be developed leisurely while retaining the functionality in development builds.

 

[CyberTao]

If it was that big of an issue, it would have been dealt with years ago. This game isn't "brand new" just because it just came on steam, I've seen people referencing all the way back to 2012. That window was there then, and it's still here now. Does that better explain the opinion on the window? It's something that existed for so long, yet never had a major issue arise.

"It's for testers" means that testers know how to use it. I'm not a licensed tester (note the lack of badge) and generally do not know enough to even understand bugs and issues. No one here has that badge, so yeah. I don't use it, but said that it's used by Devs, testers and maybe admins. Lo and behold, Lidren (a server owner) admits to using it from time to time.

"It's alpha" is a valid excuse this time, because the game isn't really ready for play yet, it's all just testing and adding in core features, getting feedback, and reworking those core features. Honestly, servers constantly needing to reset, and players having to rebuild all their ships also sound like an annoyance as well right? Expect both.

 

[Noc]

If it was that big of an issue, it would have been dealt with years ago. This game isn't "brand new" just because it just came on steam, I've seen people referencing all the way back to 2012. That window was there then, and it's still here now. Does that better explain the opinion on the window? It's something that existed for so long, yet never had a major issue arise.

"It's for testers" means that testers know how to use it. I'm not a licensed tester (note the lack of badge) and generally do not know enough to even understand bugs and issues. No one here has that badge, so yeah. I don't use it, but said that it's used by Devs, testers and maybe admins. Lo and behold, Lidren (a server owner) admits to using it from time to time.

"It's alpha" is a valid excuse this time, because the game isn't really ready for play yet, it's all just testing and adding in core features, getting feedback, and reworking those core features. Honestly, servers constantly needing to reset, and players having to rebuild all their ships also sound like an annoyance as well right? Expect both.

Blanket apologists really have no place in these types of discussions. By your logic every player should have access to "/give_cash" as well because, duh, we're in alpha.

 

[CyberTao]

Blanket apologists really have no place in these types of discussions. By your logic every player should have access to "/give_cash" as well because, duh, we're in alpha.

Some servers do, but they market it as "Voting incentives".

 

[jath]

I"m going to build an anti griefer ship for you all. You're going to like it. I'm going to stream this right now in fact on twitch. (same name)