Cubical planets are better and I can explain why

[Dr. Whammy]

Please, no. Why are you doing this?

Why? Simple; Because I have to.

Why do I have to? Because I can...

 

[Raisinbat]

Not sure what the point is that you're trying to make, but let me put it another way. If we are bothering to have planets in StarMade, we sure aren't going to let them stay as cubes or cookie shapes.

His point, obviously, was that doing things because realism is silly.

Better question WHY do we need planets, especially when you don't even have any idea what they're going to be used for?

Freelancer didn't need planets.
X didn't need planets.
EVE didn't need planets, and adding planetary interaction didn't really improve anything.
Space engineers launched fine without planets, and now that they're in you can't get away from them fast enough because space is just more fun.

Why does starmade need planets?

New Can't we all just wait until the new planets are released and then we can A. demand that they be reverted to cookies/dodecahedrons, B. demand they be made into cubes, or C. they work great and everybody is satisfied (lol)?

Yes we can avoid discussing anything not in the game and thus waste months of development time putting it in before agreeing it was a bad idea, why does that sound like a good idea to you?

 

[Valiant70]

Here's an ultra-simplified version of what I'm talking about; albeit smaller than my original prototype and built as a single entity instead of a cluster. For this experiment, I'll have 6 populated areas arranged in a cubic fashion; each with their own manually activated gravity. Most of the diagonal areas will end up being oceans and decorative landscapes, although I'll have roads and bridges that lead to the neighboring sides.

So as not to crowd the thread, I'll add images to this post as the build progresses.
View attachment 41687View attachment 41702

I rather like this version, except for the fact that gravity will not work, and only the plates on the very edges can easily be built on. The overall shape of the planet fits a cube-based voxel universe well.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

I rather like this version, except for the fact that gravity will not work, and only the plates on the very edges can easily be built on. The overall shape of the planet fits a cube-based voxel universe well.

While fun, it does have its limitations...

- Gravity is a constant issue; as there is no permanently-on radial gravity source. However, you can use area triggers to shift between plate alignments.
- Building is kinda tricky since you cannot rotate your view to match a plate and many of the blocks cannot be rotated, which limits your aesthetic choices. Diagonal mountains, oceans and clouds are an even bigger pain to make.
- Diagonal areas aren't the best place to build structures but copy/paste diagonal template structures can help out a little.

While limited, it does have its advantages over the current planets.
- An enemy will have to do some actual work to destroy my planetoid rather than just salvage it or pop the core.
- Speaking of planetary cores; this thing has none so I don't have to worry about 12 plates flying apart and spiking my ping.
- Regarding plates; since this thing is all one entity; I can apply shields to the whole planet rather than one plate at a time.
- Since I can shield the entire planetoid at once, defending it may be as simple as defending a station. ...a very large, planet-shaped station with cities, mountains, oceans and trees on it...


Please keep in mind that this is not an attempt to market cubic planets, but rather a proof of concept for any brain storming Schine or the player base may be doing. This is probably much smaller and simpler that what Schine is planning but it makes a decent improvised home world in light of the limitations of the current planets.

 

[thereaverofdarkness]

Can't we all just wait until the new planets are released

No. There's no guarantee when it'll happen and it's already been years. For all we know the team has abandoned the project. And if it's going to take this long for them to come out with a new type of planet and it sucks, what do you think are the chances they're going to change it again within any reasonable timeframe?

We need to talk about this right now, and we need to keep talking about it until it gets fixed.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

I heard in the dev stream that they are planning to make changes to the gravity systems. Spherical/radial gravity was also mentioned. If that happens, we can very easily create our own fully functioning planetoid bases and travel across the "plates". I just hope they get the astronaut orientation right.

Additionally, the new hovering system that they're testing would allow us to use ground vehicles on these structures.

The only major issue remaining would be block alignment for blocks with an "up" side in relation to the orientation of the planetoid. I'll be watching for this release like a hawk.

 

[Ithirahad]

No. There's no guarantee when it'll happen and it's already been years. For all we know the team has abandoned the project. And if it's going to take this long for them to come out with a new type of planet and it sucks, what do you think are the chances they're going to change it again within any reasonable timeframe?

We need to talk about this right now, and we need to keep talking about it until it gets fixed.

It's not abandoned. Schema just mentioned it yesterday. For some reason they're keeping the actual nature of it a secret, but he said that it is definitely going to be implemented (with the universe update).

 

[diremage]

Because planets are round. We have a game that relies on grids and cubes, but a majority of the things we build with our blocks are not bigger cubes. That is in fact frowned upon among the playerbase.

We already have plans for planets that do not involve turning them into cubes. You'll see that work eventually!

There's actually a way to modify the current dodecahedron planets to be a lot more workable, but the same method would work for a cubic planet and would probably be easier for the servers to calculate.

First let me draw a picture of the current problem:



You can see I've simplified the current planet a bit but the principles are the same. Every single plate has a huge gap where players "fall off the edge" and get stuck. Furthermore I've noticed a lot of the planet plates are bowl-shaped, with a big portion scooped out of the middle and high side walls.

Edit: Hit post by accident, still working on this but I bet you can see where I'm going with this.



The solution is to modify the algorithm that generates planet plates. Instead of clear gaps between each plate due to essentially vertical side walls, each plate needs an overhang that is roughly symmetric to the plate next to it. This will give us rounder planets (even if the core is a cube) AND solve the problems with current planets.

I think this system will be easier to solve with cubic planets, but it is still solvable with dodecahedrons and the 12-sided planets would give a little bit more even gravity.

So...in conclusion I don't think cubic planets are really the answer. Round planets are the answer. And we can make round planets with either six or twelve sided cores, but we have to adjust the plate generation mechanism either way.

 

[Vitez Kolya]

If the planet type was to change I would rather it switch to a disk or cookie shaped planets. Why? Because everyone else is making spherical planets for their games and going for more a unique shape would be interesting. But I wouldn't want the dev's to throw away all that work that they already have for the galactic update.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

There's actually a way to modify the current dodecahedron planets to be a lot more workable, but the same method would work for a cubic planet and would probably be easier for the servers to calculate.

First let me draw a picture of the current problem:

View attachment 44949

You can see I've simplified the current planet a bit but the principles are the same. Every single plate has a huge gap where players "fall off the edge" and get stuck. Furthermore I've noticed a lot of the planet plates are bowl-shaped, with a big portion scooped out of the middle and high side walls.

Edit: Hit post by accident, still working on this but I bet you can see where I'm going with this.

View attachment 44950

The solution is to modify the algorithm that generates planet plates. Instead of clear gaps between each plate due to essentially vertical side walls, each plate needs an overhang that is roughly symmetric to the plate next to it. This will give us rounder planets (even if the core is a cube) AND solve the problems with current planets.

I think this system will be easier to solve with cubic planets, but it is still solvable with dodecahedrons and the 12-sided planets would give a little bit more even gravity.

So...in conclusion I don't think cubic planets are really the answer. Round planets are the answer. And we can make round planets with either six or twelve sided cores, but we have to adjust the plate generation mechanism either way.

This is very similar to my idea; the key difference being that a true "cube-based" planet will have more abrupt orientation effects when you cross plates. More testing is needed on both methods.

Food for thought...

In an attempt to create a more realistic planet than the discs while not generating the amount of lag typical of dodecahedrons, I once began working on a concept for an artificial 6-plate octogonal polyhedron planet.

The structure would be visually similar to a dodecahedron yet functionally identical to a cube. Each of the 6 plates would be square at the bottom and connect to a central structure; creating a seemless 26-sided polyhedron consisting of 6 flat serfaces, 12 wedged surfaces and 8 hepta/tetra surfaces. At the at the half way point of each angled surface, gravity would shift you 90 degrees upon entering the next planet plate.

I was forced to abandon the project because there is no way to add an 'always-on' gravity system to a ship or station.
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Skylordluke had similar projects if I remember correctly.

Your thoughts gentlemen?

The core shape (cube, octagon, sphere, etc.) really doesn't matter, so long as gravity pulls you toward each planet plate. As per the dev stream, the new update is supposedly going to include modifications to the way gravity blocks work. Spherical gravity was even mentioned. That will open up a few options for ships, stations and artificial planets.

 

[diremage]

If the planet type was to change I would rather it switch to a disk or cookie shaped planets. Why? Because everyone else is making spherical planets for their games and going for more a unique shape would be interesting. But I wouldn't want the dev's to throw away all that work that they already have for the galactic update.

If we are going for non-sphere planets I vote ring worlds. Or disks supported by giant space whales.

 

[DrTarDIS]

Disk-planets are best planets.

Spoiler: evidence 1

All seasonings can exist on a flat planet

Spoiler: evidence 2

a flat planet ride conveniently on elephants riding on tortoise

Spoiler: evidence 3

the earth is one

Spoiler: evidence 4

you can try it yourself.

 

[jstenholt]

I legitimately miss cookie planets.

 

[Coyote27]

After thinking about it, I can also see the virtues of flat disc planets, if one bears in mind that they're an abstraction of what would in-universe be a far larger sphere. They offer a lot more contiguous room to build and the terrain will look right locally.

 

[SneakyFish]

You're not thinking big enough

 

[Blakpik]

Disk-planets are best planets.

Spoiler: evidence 1

All seasonings can exist on a flat planet

Spoiler: evidence 2

a flat planet ride conveniently on elephants riding on tortoise

Spoiler: evidence 3

the earth is one

Spoiler: evidence 4

you can try it yourself.

A'tuin is a turtle.
Also, why do we need round planets, when real planets are flat.