Crime and punishment

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    Ok, this was an idea that had resulted from another post that I thought deserved it's own thread.

    The idea stems from the following principles.
    A: This is a creative game and a player v player combat game, not an everything is MINE and I will destroy what I want game.
    B: invulnerable bases are stupid
    C: there needs to be something keeping people from griefing.

    So the idea then is that if two players decide to go to combat against one another, nothing different that what happens now should happen, but, if one player is offline and leaves his ships and bases docked, they should be vulnerable, but not unprotected. AI turrets and craft can only do so much vs. griefers. Make it so acts against offline individuals would garner a warrant, or a star(thinking GTA), or whatever, so that whatever damage they do to the player's property is monetized and calculated. The player will now have a bounty of 1.1x to pay off. (you'll see where the .1 comes in in a second).

    Now, anyone can collect the bounty by capturing the astronaut, or the ship he's in, and demanding the bounty be paid (using stop effect, etc.) They will cause a window to open up where he can pay. If they pay, the bounty hunter will get 10% of the payment (that .1 from earlier) that goes to the victim. If not, the bounty may increase. Unpaid bounties over a certain amount would cause NPC ships to start to approach the player in waves. They will first demand the bounty be paid, and then they will attack. The waves will get bigger and more ships over time, and the bounty will increase with each protection unit destroyed.

    The protected areas are defined though, not all space is protected. If I build a station, I can hire security to document crimes against my station. Perhaps they will warn the attacking player if a stray missile or two hits my station. They won't necessarily attack (as that what turrets and drones are for) but they will record the action. The new and weakened players can stick to these protected areas to avoid pirates and player pirates. If you leave these areas, you won't be protected period.

    Here's a rundown though: if player X attacks player Y, and Player Y retaliates within T seconds, there will be no bounty. If player X attacks player Y, and player Y is either destroyed, or does not retaliate within T seconds, there would be a bounty. This check would only happen if a protection unit is within sensor range.
    If player Y has a bounty, and player X attacks player Y, and there is no retaliation, player X receives a bounty. If player X requests the bounty from player Y, and player Y refuses, Player X would then be free to destroy player Y with no bounty. Attacks should only count if they do actual damage (IE not shield damage). This will allow use of stop beams to hold a bounty in place, and any number of accidental or "test" shots. perhaps this forgiveness can be bypassed by adding a "distress signal" to call for any ships in the vicinity to your aid.

    There would be large swaths of unprotected areas where pirates could operate without fear of bounties. Furthermore, newly discovered areas could have abandoned stations where the player could opt to destroy the station with no consequence, or to activate the built in protection units to make the zone a civilized area. (player pirates trying to gain territory would opt for the former). As more players visit each sector, and spend more money in the respective shops, the protection force would get larger, and their station would get bigger.

    Also, if a player has a big bounty, that players most expensive ship blueprints would become available to the enforcement units.
     
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    Two problems as far as I can see:
    1. It might be hard to differentiate between salvaged and destroyed blocks.
    2. If the most expensive blueprint gets used, players would just make a useless 'money bomb' ship to avoid useful ships being used against them (cube of hardened hull, with an area of sand/dirt of course so you can salvage the hardened hull).
    These two problems together create massive flaws in this plan. But don't fear, homebases will no longer be indestructible once the new faction system gets implemented (which will take a while though).
     
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    Ok, this was an idea that had resulted from another post that I thought deserved it's own thread.

    Also, if a player has a big bounty, that players most expensive ship blueprints would become available to the enforcement units.
    Hurray for AI Titan swarms if the pirate has a titan uploaded.
    And what FunnyBuny said
     
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    Yeah, I thought of that too, but the thing is, destroying an enforcement ship worth 10,000,000 credits would add a bounty of 11,000,000 credits. It wouldn't pay off in the end because they'd eventually still have to pay off that bounty, or flee to the outermost corners of the galaxy.

    As for harvesting, you can't currently harvest ships with an active core (or faction block), and destroying a core would incur the rest of the ships value in the bounty, so that's pretty much a non-issue.
     

    Reilly Reese

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    This seems like a half thought out system. You know you can just jump away if you get full stopped right?
     
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    Currently, but if this system was enabled, I'm sure a stop beam could at least be partially made to slow down jump drives. Besides, the offender should have the opportunity to escape, it won't help him any, but he can avoid paying the bounty for now.

    Another thing, maybe the player can opt to pay part of the bounty, and he would be exempt from paying any more for T minutes... (360 maybe)

    The minimum payment could be half what he has total (including in banks)[DOUBLEPOST=1412127920,1412126795][/DOUBLEPOST]Let's say you get full stopped. If your jump drive is charged already, you can escape. If not, the window will have a timer, and if you don't react fast, you won't have time to charge your jump drives. The window timer will expire and the real weapons will start pounding your ship. If your shield drops, you won't be able to charge the drives anymore. There will be a pay bounty window in the corner as long as your within range of the bounty hunter, so you can stop the attack at any time. The bounty hunter will get notified that the bounty is paid and he will have a few seconds to stop attacks lest he get his own bounty (if protection ships are in range)[DOUBLEPOST=1412128121][/DOUBLEPOST]Something else I forgot to add was my idea that a ship could semi permanently enter hyperspace as he logs out. This would protect his ship from attack while he's logged off without taking from the realism of the game (any more than has already been taken)
     

    Reilly Reese

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    This system goes about bounties all wrong in my opinion
     

    NeonSturm

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    I support this
    Two problems as far as I can see:
    1. It might be hard to differentiate between salvaged and destroyed blocks.
    2. If the most expensive blueprint gets used, players would just make a useless 'money bomb' ship to avoid useful ships being used against them (cube of hardened hull, with an area of sand/dirt of course so you can salvage the hardened hull).
    These two problems together create massive flaws in this plan. But don't fear, homebases will no longer be indestructible once the new faction system gets implemented (which will take a while though).
    2. I think they should prefer admin-choosen ships and have some explosive stuff around expensive parts >:-} *evil grin smiley*

    Yeah, I thought of that too, but the thing is, destroying an enforcement ship worth 10,000,000 credits would add a bounty of 11,000,000 credits. It wouldn't pay off in the end because they'd eventually still have to pay off that bounty, or flee to the outermost corners of the galaxy.
    Like +1
    As for harvesting, you can't currently harvest ships with an active core (or faction block), and destroying a core would incur the rest of the ships value in the bounty, so that's pretty much a non-issue.
    If you can't find the faction block. Core drilling and mining alone will pay off if you don't destroy too much for the faction block (maybe a valid point if multiple were allowed, but random luck is never a good thing ...)


    This seems like a half thought out system. You know you can just jump away if you get full stopped right?
    AFAIK any damage discharges the jump drive. At least EMP should do too.
     
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    Criss

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    So I figure that the ships would not get bigger, but increase in wave size till it hits a wave limit (we do not want 200 ships in one spot). We can add our own ships for NPC use and we will get the ability to add custom NPC factions eventually so perhaps we can assign them this bounty hunting role.

    I like the idea of retaliation, or "kill rights". Very EVE-like. The idea of asking someone to pay their bounty is different, but I think players will go straight for the shooting in some cases instead of trying to navigate window.

    Also it should be noted that with the new universe/faction updates space gets progressively more dangerous as you approach the edges of galaxies, or so it was stated by the devs. Also the new faction overhaul will have a system in place for dealing with bases/docked ships that are vulnerable or not based on player actions in those factions.
     
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    We know what's planned, we're suggesting possibly better systems. And if you read my previous paragraphs, you'd know that my idea would not allow you to collect any bounty by simply killing the player. You'd have to cripple his ship and capture him.
     

    Criss

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    We know what's planned, we're suggesting possibly better systems. And if you read my previous paragraphs, you'd know that my idea would not allow you to collect any bounty by simply killing the player. You'd have to cripple his ship and capture him.
    Then multiple problems need to be addressed. What is to stop the player from suiciding during capture. Also, if a player is captured and restrained somehow, what happens when the bounty collector logs off?
     
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    Either suicide would be disabled when bounty hunters are near, or upon death, you would drop whatever bounty you owe upon suicide.
     
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    Ok, this was an idea that had resulted from another post that I thought deserved it's own thread.

    The idea stems from the following principles.
    A: This is a creative game and a player v player combat game, not an everything is MINE and I will destroy what I want game.
    B: invulnerable bases are stupid
    C: there needs to be something keeping people from griefing.

    So the idea then is that if two players decide to go to combat against one another, nothing different that what happens now should happen, but, if one player is offline and leaves his ships and bases docked, they should be vulnerable, but not unprotected. AI turrets and craft can only do so much vs. griefers. Make it so acts against offline individuals would garner a warrant, or a star(thinking GTA), or whatever, so that whatever damage they do to the player's property is monetized and calculated. The player will now have a bounty of 1.1x to pay off. (you'll see where the .1 comes in in a second).

    Now, anyone can collect the bounty by capturing the astronaut, or the ship he's in, and demanding the bounty be paid (using stop effect, etc.) They will cause a window to open up where he can pay. If they pay, the bounty hunter will get 10% of the payment (that .1 from earlier) that goes to the victim. If not, the bounty may increase. Unpaid bounties over a certain amount would cause NPC ships to start to approach the player in waves. They will first demand the bounty be paid, and then they will attack. The waves will get bigger and more ships over time, and the bounty will increase with each protection unit destroyed.

    The protected areas are defined though, not all space is protected. If I build a station, I can hire security to document crimes against my station. Perhaps they will warn the attacking player if a stray missile or two hits my station. They won't necessarily attack (as that what turrets and drones are for) but they will record the action. The new and weakened players can stick to these protected areas to avoid pirates and player pirates. If you leave these areas, you won't be protected period.

    Here's a rundown though: if player X attacks player Y, and Player Y retaliates within T seconds, there will be no bounty. If player X attacks player Y, and player Y is either destroyed, or does not retaliate within T seconds, there would be a bounty. This check would only happen if a protection unit is within sensor range.
    If player Y has a bounty, and player X attacks player Y, and there is no retaliation, player X receives a bounty. If player X requests the bounty from player Y, and player Y refuses, Player X would then be free to destroy player Y with no bounty. Attacks should only count if they do actual damage (IE not shield damage). This will allow use of stop beams to hold a bounty in place, and any number of accidental or "test" shots. perhaps this forgiveness can be bypassed by adding a "distress signal" to call for any ships in the vicinity to your aid.

    There would be large swaths of unprotected areas where pirates could operate without fear of bounties. Furthermore, newly discovered areas could have abandoned stations where the player could opt to destroy the station with no consequence, or to activate the built in protection units to make the zone a civilized area. (player pirates trying to gain territory would opt for the former). As more players visit each sector, and spend more money in the respective shops, the protection force would get larger, and their station would get bigger.

    Also, if a player has a big bounty, that players most expensive ship blueprints would become available to the enforcement units.
    That would actually promote base raping, heres why.

    Simply get your friend to kill you and split the money after your attack run. Now you can get income by simply by going and destroying stuff.
     
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    WHAT?! that makes no sense. My system in know way creates money out of thin air, no does it promote "base raping"
    If you run an attack on the base and do X monetary damage, then your friend kills you, he would get .1X of the money directly from you, if anything at all. Any additional money would go directly to the owner of the base automatically.
     
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    WHAT?! that makes no sense. My system in know way creates money out of thin air, no does it promote "base raping"
    If you run an attack on the base and do X monetary damage, then your friend kills you, he would get .1X of the money directly from you, if anything at all. Any additional money would go directly to the owner of the base automatically.
    A bounty is usually awarded by a third party. When you said bounty that is what I thought. I did not read the entire post as its not entirely concise. Its simply a penalty not a bounty.
     
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    I'm basing my version of bounties on real life bounty hunters. The money has to come from somewhere.

    Usually, it's a fine or a settlement, or bail, unpaid by the fugitive. The bounty hunter would then get a percentage of the uncollected money upon capturing the fugitive who would then have to pay everything.

    Reward money for capturing someone is different, but if they can take it from the criminal, they will.

    The current "bounty" system on servers is actually a hit list.
     

    Criss

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    Would your system also allow players to assign and pay for bounties on other players without crimes being committed?
     
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    Again, that's called a Hit List.
    That's the sort of thing that you might do if you were aligned with the pirate factions instead of the protector factions. I would think both putting a hit on someone, and carrying it out would garner a bounty, personally, so long as you're in protected space... but in Pirate territory, anything goes. It would be the other side of the same coin.
     

    Criss

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    Again, that's called a Hit List.
    That's the sort of thing that you might do if you were aligned with the pirate factions instead of the protector factions. I would think both putting a hit on someone, and carrying it out would garner a bounty, personally, so long as you're in protected space... but in Pirate territory, anything goes. It would be the other side of the same coin.
    I see no reason why a "good" faction would not want to place bounties either. It would be a lucrative way to fight crime.
     
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    ........... Please try to read everything I type, not just small parts of it. please.

    Again, a bounty is added through a "good" faction. Your definition of bounty is obviously more akin to a contract, or murder for hire. This is like that game Hit Man, where you play agent 47 who kills people to get paid. You know the one?

    The good guys wouldn't put a hit out on people. They would put a bounty. In other words, capture them by force if you can. If you cannot capture them because they fight you, the same self defense laws that are prevalent throughout America would take precedence and you could rightly kill them. You'd get a smaller bounty, as there's no criminal alive to pay it, so you'd have to go find him again if you wanted to collect the full amount (thank you respawns).

    I see no reasons why Factions outside the law, either military supremacists, or seedy underground mafias, would not employ hit lists to get their way. It would have to benefit them in some way though. Why waste money if they don't get something out of it. IE. There's a player who has a really good spot for trade, which mafia faction wants, and they don't want to incur the bounty to kill them themselves, so they hire someone who can kill them without being detected... etc.

    Go ahead and put contracts on people's heads, If you're caught doing it (i.e. there's a protector probe nearby) then you'll get a bounty placed against you.