Crafting only gamemode (and more!)

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    Special edit: reed this before voting!! Only choose the last option if you don't care about this post, and just thought you'd say you stopped by. Don't do it "just because", even though it may seem fun to do.


    The idea

    My idea is simple: there should either be a preset, and/or multiple config options to achieve to same, for making crafting necessary.

    The preset is simple: instead of selecting sandbox as gamemode you would select this gamemode (I don't want to go into names, they just cause problems):
    • Shops won't sell or buy anything in the beginning, and once they do, they will have a lot less items to choose from, and they will be rarer. The stock capacity gets lower depending on the value/price of the item. Shops also won't sell you or buy ores, shards and capsules, but they will buy or sell you all the other items. They will not, however, buy items that are common in the default space stations (so hull, glass, lights, etc).
    • The only way to get credits (in the beginning) is to do missions you can get from npc's, which will spawn at almost every station. Missions are random, the descriptions will be presets but the missions will never be the same, because the enemies you will face will be random (and the location too).
    • There will be multiple types of missions, including, but not limited to: mining, transporting, defending, fighting, exploring and diplomatic (once there are more npc factions).
    • Doing missions gains you reputation. Once your reputation is high enough, you will be able to sell or buy items from or to shops. You also unlock harder but more rewarding missions at higher levels.
    • The higher you reputation, the more pirates will attack you, and the stronger they will be. The occasional way weaker pirates will run away (same will apply completely or partially to upcoming hostile npc factions, or to npc factions that became hostile).
    • You will have a new computer, which just is a computer, and is needed to access the in-game map. That means that you won't have access to it when you start, but you will, however, still have all the waypoints displayed, but they just will be called "sector", and you won't know the coördinates of that sector. You also will still see nearby objects in a menu screen, and you will be able to select them.
    • The spawn sector will be random (but not in a -, -, - sector).
    Edit 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 (the newest newest (same time as 6):
    • (Edit: price was exaggerated, it is lower, and dynamic prices are yet to come). Shops won't buy faction modules (they cost about two million each, we don't want people solely creating them would we now!)
    • Missions will have difficulty levels which will be told to you before the mission starts. Some, however, will have an unknown difficulty level. Those will be rare but rewarding, about twice as much as missions of the same difficulty level normally would get, maybe even a lot more. The higher the difficulty level the more you'll get. The difficulty levels will be something like this, in order from easiest to hardest: simple, easy, normal, hard, extreme, impossible.
    • Some missions will have requirements, so you will have to build the right ships, and you will have to make trade-offs sometimes, because you will have a maximum and minimum amount of blocks of a certain type or types for these missions. An example of a trade-off: you need at least 500 blocks modules in your weapon system on your ship, maximum is 750, and effects and slaves are counted too, but not computers. Or: you only are allowed a maximum of 1000 weapon modules, effect modules, shield capacitors and shield regenerators in total on you ship.
    • You will still have your weapon, power supply beam and healing beam available. This might change if there is a way to craft all of those, and the power supply beam can be crafted without power (so in your personal crafting inventory).
    • Edit to the "random spawn sector" part, this is its replacement: The player will spawn on a planet which has a minimum radius of 200. This planet will have a plex undeathinator (you spawn next to it).
    • In multiplayer, there will be an option to create a central station from which players can form teams to play together (also known as factions ;) ). They will be teleported to a planet with a radius of at least 200 and the planet has to be new (never loaded/edited (parts salvaged/placed) before). There will be a certain distance between groups (a couple of sectors apart). Players can also choose to create a one player "group".
    This is all "including but not limited to", so feel free to suggest or criticise, and if I feel you are right and/or have a point, I will edit my post accordingly.

    Edit: I totally forgot the config options! It basically should be so that everything above also can be changed in the server config.

    Another edit: The sections in italics are about the missions. Missions are planned, and this is just how I would use them in the "crafting gamemode".



    Yet another edit: Clarification on how shops will work:

    When you first visit shops, they will have only certain types of blocks for sale. When the traiding guild restocks the shops, they make sure that the max limit of items for sale isn't passed when they leave again. That means that they will also take blocks with them. Some block types won't be for sale at all, others will have their stock size reduced (not the max stock size, that remains the same).

    Some blocks shops just will never buy. These blocks will be the block types that are common in spacestations (hull, glass, etc.). There will also be certain blocks shops will never sell (ore, shards and their capsules). The intermediate crafting blocks also will be uncommon in shops.


    New ideas that will hopefully make the game interesting and balance things out:

    The more items of a certain type you sell, the less you will get for those items. These reduced prices will go up a bit (amount depends on block) every time the traiding guild restocks the shop. These reduced prices aplly to all the shops, but the further away a shop is from the shop at which you sold the items that caused the reduced price, the higher the reduced price will be, until eventually the price is normal again.
    Same type of rule applies to buying: the more you buy, the higher the prices get. Also spreads out to nearby shops.

    Sometimes there will be an "enormous block overflow" and that block will cost a lot less, but it will get you less when you sell it. This will happen quite often, and sometimes to multiple blocks at once. This only last for a limited amount of time. Rarer will be the "enormous block shortage". This will only happen to one block at once, so keep your eye out for them. When this happens the block will cost a lot, but you will gain a lot when you sell it. The time this lasts is shorter than the block overflow. With both of these events this rule applies: the more blocks are sold, the lower the prices get. The more blocks are bought, the higher the prices get.
    These events apply across certain areas at once, but not the whole universe.
     
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    Wow, quite the idea here, sounds to me more like a realism mode rather than a crafting mode. I like the idea, but I probably wouldn't play it cause I'm a wuss :D
     
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    Here's a question to you: why do you like an idea that you won't use? :)

    Edit:
    I suppose you could see it as a kind of realism mode, but it isn't really a realism mode, since realism would need to include oxygen, food and life support.

    Now I think about, having the oxygen bit in this "gamemode" would be nice, but not for everyone, I guess that's why I said that the same could be achieved through config settings, so people could always use other elements.

    My main goal was to create a gamemode that would use the crafting system to it's full extent and still be fun to play, which is why I added the missions as a way to earn credits and a new "currency": reputation. (Or experience, or whatever you want to call it, but you get the idea).
     
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    the advance shop could be upgraded and have a shop counter in the middle of It and oxygen
     
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    Do you mean the spawn shop? Aren't you aware of the contest going on? All current stations will be replaced.
     
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    Edited: so the trading guild stations will replace the shops:confused:. so the shops will be gone
     
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    You didn't read what I said. There is a contest to do exactly that. Go to the news section, and then scroll down 'till you see "station contest". Press the link there, and you'll go to the thread where all the stations are shown and talked about. It's a wonderful thread, it's definetely worth checking out. There are loads of lovely stations already, and we still have 1 1/2 weeks to go.
    Late edit: the guy edited his post ;) Forget you ever saw this. It makes me seem unreasonable.
     
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    NeonSturm

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    Reputation is better for games where you can't buy 100 small ships and build a big, powerful ship out of them.

    Better reputation for top-secret/high-reward missions? Yes, completely agree. Maybe you should lose reputation when you fail by not doing it in time (death costs
    time - maybe disallow nearby spawn points or summon ships out of no-where nearby the quest location to reduce exploits).

    In X2-TheTreat you can only accept quests if you are flying in a ship with which the quest is possible.
    • NPCs bet with other NPCs that they can reach location X in Y minutes: requires a fast ship.
    • deliveries are time-sensitive: also requires fast ship.
    • deliveries are top-secret: you need a high reputation.
    • delivery wares are huge: you need a big ship.
    • delivery is expensive: you need much shields and firepowa (and high reputation or pay for the quest)
    • for a peaceful mission: you need FEW weapons
    • civil taxi quests: you need some luxury blocks (water, lights, plants) and a lot of Deco blocks on your ship - which military quests (bounty, espionage, ...) do not like.
    You can have a carrier carrying different quest ships, but that requires you to go back to the carrier after the quest (even if a quest's start and end location are far away from each other).

    The ship core with which you accepted a quest should some times be locked (you can't dock in a carrier or complete this quest in another ship (maybe not enter a range of sectors with other or heavily modified ships)
     
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    jayman38

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    In X2-TheTreat you can only accept quests if you are flying in a ship with which the quest is possible.
    • NPCs bet with other NPCs that they can reach location X in Y minutes: requires a fast ship.
    • deliveries are time-sensitive: also requires fast ship.
    • deliveries are top-secret: you need a high reputation.
    • delivery wares are huge: you need a big ship.
    • delivery is expensive: you need much shields and firepowa (and high reputation or pay for the quest)
    • for a peaceful mission: you need FEW weapons
    • civil taxi quests: you need some luxury blocks (water, lights, plants) and a lot of Deco blocks on your ship - which military quests (bounty, espionage, ...) do not like.
    It would be helpful to determine some basic ideas on how to determine ship capabilities, and focus on those for the quest types available.

    Example:

    1. Ship Thrust/Ship Mass > 2 = fast ship (It might be better to have a floating requirement for different levels of quests. For instance, this speed mission "A" requires a thrust ratio greater than 1.5, while that even-more-urgent or planet-based speed mission "B" requires a thrust ratio greater than 2.8.)

    2. Linked weapon computers > 2, Linked weapon blocks > 500 = well-armed (Here, we might check those two different values for different floating requirements, and check for a specific link and weapon type for specific missions. Example: for object retrieval mission C, you need one of the following types of beams: pull or stop. For object removal mission D, you need either a Pull beam or a push beam, plus any weapon.)

    3. Big ship: Check dimensions only, or check for a dimension/block ratio, to make sure the ship has enough space? (Example: You can't load a lot of cargo into a ship jam-packed with energy and weapon blocks. There has to be some space in there somewhere. Maybe make it so that there needs to be at least 1200 blocks difference between the overall dimension calculation (maximum blocks that can be in a bounding box) and the actual block count. With this suggestion, you will have oddly-shaped, tightly-packed warships that can fulfill requirements, but who's to say that the cargo can't simply be strapped to the keel?)

    4. Few Weapons: I am not sure I like the idea of a relatively defenseless ship in any circumstance. Maybe instead look for specific non-weapon beam types as described above in point 2.

    5. Expensive: Check shield capacity -and- shield recharge rate, along with weapon system checks as described above in point 2.

    6. civil taxi: I like exactly what you described. Neat! Expensive (read: military) missions could check for the same thing, and if too much, the military mission is no longer available unless your weapon checks (point 2 again) are too good to ignore. "You have a lot of luxury liner features, Mr. Smith, but I like the look of that missile array. Alright, you're in, but don't screw up!"
     

    NeonSturm

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    4. Few Weapons: I am not sure I like the idea of a relatively defenseless ship in any circumstance. Maybe instead look for specific non-weapon beam types as described above in point 2.
    I hope you didn't get it wrong (and neither lead the wrong way for others posting below you).
    When I talk about few weapons, I was thinking more like <5% of all blocks, not <500 blocks - relative not absolute.

    You shouldn't get cargo quests if you have a infinite-shield infinite-damage capital which just tends to have barely enough cargo for this small cargo-quest.


    The quest keeper should check about the main purpose(s) of your ship, but we should agree on something that does not need too many adjustments between RP and PvP servers when possible.

    Comparing weapons to hull is thus much less reliable than comparing luxury to weapons or count how many seconds your ship would require to bring down it's own shields.
    Miliatry ships usually focus on weapons while civil prefer more shields over more weapons to coop better with the defensive strength of dedicated military escorts.
     
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    I was thinking more along the lines of information being given about the type of mission, and you will have to decide whether or not your ship is capable of doing that mission. If seats ever get added, we could have those as a requirement for passenger transportation (1 seat per passenger, maybe more for VIPs?). There will be a diffuculty level on each mission which will tell you how many weapons and shields are best, but not needed, because i believe you should be allowed to test yourself by doing a way harder mission than is "recommended" for your current ship.

    The difficulty levels: simple, easy, medium, hard, extreme and impossible. Simple would be hardly any enemies, or none, and the enemies that ypu might have won't be hard to beat. Impossible will be really, really hard.

    Thank you for posting in this thread, you gave me a nice idea.


    Edit:
    If you have ship requirements, it could ruin the missions, since they won't really be hard anymore because a lot will be known.. Maybe I'll add something like this though, but I will have to think about it a bit more:

    • Some missions will have requirements, so you will have to build the right ships, and you will have to make trade-offs sometimes, because you will have a maximum and minimum amount of blocks of a certain type or types for these missions. An example of a trade-off: you need at least 500 blocks modules in your weapon system on your ship, maximum is 750, and effects and slaves are counted too, but not computers. Or: you only are allowed a maximum of 1000 weapon modules, effect modules, shield capacitors and shield regenerators in total on you ship.
     
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    Would it be a good idea to have a block that could be placed in space that is craftable?
     
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    And I just realised that there is a typo in the voting section... I sleeping, seriously??!!!! How on earth did I not see that?!!
     
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    i like this idea for two reasons.

    One: the crafting system is still more or less useless as its much faster and easier to just salvage a buncha stuff, sell it and get tons of money. i for one love playing on survival and anything that makes its more difficult is good in my opinion. i like a challenge. thats why i was excited for the crafting system. and i really like the way its been implemented. but theres just not much incentive to use it at all at the moment. so having a mode where you cant buy or sell anything would make the crafting system the only way to go. this would force you to make large factories to make all the blocks you need for your ships, plus defending your self while you go out and salvage materials/ores/shards. befor you know it youd end up with a nice space station/factory or two, and a few specialized ships, that actually have a purpose other then "looking pretty" or "i made it cuz i was bored".

    Two: its gives us something to do. altho we know quests are coming regardless. so i supposed that will get solved one way or the other. but my main beef right now is lack of motivation or necessity to use the crafting system.

    Edit: thats it, youv convinced me. im guna start a new universe and prohibit my self from buying or sellling anything, and see how it goes.

    Edit 2: damn it, just realized i wont be able to make a space station like that because you need a million credits to start one..... :( i supposed i can just give my self a million with admin commands. as right now needing a million credits just to place a grey hull floating in space is a very artificial limit....
     
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    If you want a challenge right now, just do the following:
    Set shop credits, shop credits refill over time and starting credits to zero. The only problem is that you no longer can create stations. I did this and I'm loving it, just keep two things in mind:
    1. You can still cheat and salvage stations and cities for the hull.
    2. Using a space station as base (not a pirate base, you have to capture it first, and once you have, you deserve every last bit of it) is cheating too, because you no longer need to create your own power supply. Instead you should go to the nearest planet (your preference, although for ore the desert and green planet seem best) and start building there. If you want you still can use the cities as a place to live as they don't have power.

    And if you want super survival: just get rid of all your starting items and start from scratch (on a planet of course). You might want to make sure you have both shards and ore available though.

    Not using number zero, and in case your wondering why, here's in this order a zero and an 'o': 0o
    Edit:
    When I added the last option to the voting poll I didn't expect people to seriously choose it. Maybe a few, OK, but nearly half of all voters?
     
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    so how you guys comin along? it took me almost two hours to make my first plex storage. but it was such a sense of accomplishment! granted it is very grindy in the beginning and you have to do several hours of just mining asteroids, but it really makes every block feel valuable. and totally changes the way you play and approach the game. i dont think ill ever use the shop again. everything really feels like you earned it.

    i liked the idea so much iv decided to turn the whole ordeal into a lets play series. ill probably post that in a few days. im just super paranoid about pirates ATM. one encounter will surely ruin this endeavor at the moment.