Countermeasures (better for smaller ships)

[Malacodor]

This suggestion is based on an idea by BeefBacon posted a thread about targetable missiles (and other stuff).

Fighters use chaffs (radar reflecting stuff) and flares (heat sources) as decoys to distract radar-guided and heat-seeking missiles. This could be implemented into the game as countermeasure blocks. If a decoy has the same signature as the ship there's a 50:50 chance the missile will hit the decoy instead of the ship. Since bigger ships naturally have a bigger radar profile and stronger heat emissions they also need bigger decoys. The highlight of this suggestion is the formula:

DecoySize = X * NumberOfCMBlocks^Y ;with 0 < Y < 1

DecoySize must match the ship's size to gain the best effect, too big is as bad as too small. X should be pretty big, 1000 for example. This way a fighter consisting of 1000 blocks needs exactly one countermeasure block for optimal protection, which is a negligible burden. Of course there must be a tolerance so much that the optimal effect can always be achieved. If the difference between the optimal block count (a fractional number) and the actual block count (an integer) is <= 0.5 the effect is assumed to be optimal.

Optional: Smaller X versus heat seeking missiles, but DecoySize must only match the number of thruster blocks.

With X = 1000 and Y = 0.5, for instance, a ship with 100 000 blocks would need 10 000 countermeasure blocks, which is pretty unreasonable. Thus countermeasures are only viable for small ships, giving them the buff so many people want.

Using countermeasures could work this way: Each group of countermeasure blocks can store five decoys and replicate them at a reasonable rate (not fast enough to make fighters invincible versus missiles). This way a pilot can decide to use just one decoy for a 50:50 chance to get hit or to use several ones to reduce the chance to one sixth at best, but this comes with the danger of losing protection against further missiles - until the next decoy is replicated (which consumes energy).

The ships sensors should be able to detect missiles, measure their distance and estimate their damage potential to tell the player when to use the decoys and how much. If a missile is very strong it's more important to prevent getting hit and less important to keep reserves since stronger missiles mean more reload time or less missile launchers. The pilot should also be alerted when a missile targets a turret that is docked to the ship, and countermeasures should have the same effect.

If this is too much depending on luck we could say that missiles aim at the center of all radar/heat signatures. The more decoys are used the further away from the ship the missile explodes and the less damage is caused.

Bonus suggestion: Counter-countermeasure weapon modifications. The modified missile is more able to distinguish between its actual target and decoys, reducing the miss chance (or increasing the damage).

Edit: Changed NumberOfBlocks to NumberOfCMBlocks

 

[Cybertooth]

Underwhelming response to what is a quite detailed post: I would love countermeasures :D

 

[Krazykat]

EXPANDING IDEAS

maybe to make it even more viable dropped countermeasure charges create radar signatures, messing with titan turrets targeting capabilities so the fighter cannot be targeted and fired upon by AI while countermeasures are deployes. HOWEVER this is only effective in medium arrays (I'm not good enough with numbers to create an example equation like yours) so that cruisers and light frigates can also make use of the new module, allowing them to get in close with their guns while still being able to counter much larger vessels.

The radar added countermeasures have a low active time in small arrays, like in fighters, they can already evade turrets by simply being more agile than turret turn rate. This would add more viability to medium class vessels since they can avoid some fire while their charges are active, or until the titan turns it main guns on the frigate.

 

[Planr]

It's also nice to know we already have something remotely like this, in the form of mountable decoy drones on ships. I support this idea too. It sounds great :D

 

[Admiral.Piett]

Countermeasures would improve in game tactical combat depth! A serious proposal that needs revision! I believe its usage should be limited to AI targeting control. Usage against missiles would demand a buff in their ability to deal damage, but it is an overall awesome idea.

 

[Krazykat]

It's also nice to know we already have something remotely like this, in the form of mountable decoy drones on ships. I support this idea too. It sounds great :D

That gives me a great idea for my ships, thank you

 

[Planr]

Countermeasures would improve in game tactical combat depth! A serious proposal that needs revision! I believe its usage should be limited to AI targeting control. Usage against missiles would demand a buff in their ability to deal damage, but it is an overall awesome idea.

Well we already have anti-AI countermeasures, and they are called dockable drones. Though, they don't force the enemy ai to only pick the drones to shoot at, it just adds more targets in a list for them to choose from to attack, and hence the goal of using decoy drones is to spam that target list with a bunch of dumb targets to help minimize the attack force being applied to the mothership

 

[PizzaPress]

One concern to be aware of is that you could flood an enemy ship with dozens of AI drones, all firing countermeasures, effectively nerfing the firing capabilities of the enemy ship whilst yours(similar size) blasts it to pieces. Turret mode(aim selected turrets collectively) could help solve this, though.
EDIT: If and when logic can cause ships to undock, you can link them all up to a logic block that goes into the hotbar(when that's added). We may need more that that for flares, but that's a solution that should be here soon.

 

[Krazykat]

One concern to be aware of is that you could flood an enemy ship with dozens of AI drones, all firing countermeasures, effectively nerfing the firing capabilities of the enemy ship whilst yours(similar size) blasts it to pieces. Turret mode(aim selected turrets collectively) could help solve this, though.
EDIT: If and when logic can cause ships to undock, you can link them all up to a logic block that goes into the hotbar(when that's added). We may need more that that for flares, but that's a solution that should be here soon.

Here's my idea on this. The countermeasure module works on a system of equations, not just one. 2 specifically. 1 equation that curves best for small vessels and is the eq. for the number of flares/anti-missiles generated. #2 would be curved for medium sized vessels and be the number of radar signatures.

to balance, make the cooldowns scale a good amount less than missile cooldowns, as to not make small vessels with these impossible to hit. And usually large ships have enough turrets that a few more radar signatures doesn't affect the chance of them firing on the main ship too low

 

[Ithirahad]

If we have countermeasures and counter-countermeasures, why not counter-counter-countermeasures? Upgraded versions of countermeasures that are less likely to be effected by counter-countermeasures?

... :P

 

[Ixalite]

You can already include countermeasures in your ship in the current version of the game!

Even a small ship has room to dock a few random cores to it, or just have the docking module floating out to the side. AI, such as turrets and fighters, usually attack the nearest target first. if you have a spare docked core between yourself and them, they will attack it before you.

It is very difficult to get a solid lock with missiles on a target that is a mass of cores, as your lock keeps jumping between them.

These spare cores can be dropped at will, to create a distraction for enemy ships.

Jamming is now only 5 energy per block, small ships should be able to us a jammer for a short time quite easily.

The counter-countermeasures (ECCM) can be represented by turning off the "docked" and "turrets" in the nav filter, but you are still left vulnerable to jamming.

 

[Krazykat]

Ixalite that's not what we want though, fighters can't really utilize this because they're too small to make docked cores look good

 

[Crimson-Artist]

i can definitely see countermeasures being a new effect computer.

perhaps maybe for offensive they make shots invisible for half damage while defensive they fire chaffs to throw off missiles

 

[Alpha_Squad]

Your math is off, either way you look at your equation. What you have typed: DecoySize = X * NumberOfBlocks^Y. Your example of X=1000, NumberOfBlocks=1000 and Y=0.5 would result in: 1000*(1000^0.5)=31622. Otherwise if you meant (X*NumberOfBlocks)^Y would result in: (1000*1000)^.5=1000.

Actually looking at this equation on a graph would reveal that it favors larger ships as the larger they become the comparatively smaller number of blocks are needed to be added to compensate. The equation you are looking for would be make X=1/1000 and make Y=2. This way (1000/1000)^2=1 for a ship of size 1000 and for a larger ship of size 100000 would result in (100000/1000)^2=10000.

As for the idea itself, it would be a good idea if missiles actually worked as intended. Though as it sits rapid fire lasers are a bigger threat.

 

[Malacodor]

Your math is off, either way you look at your equation. What you have typed: DecoySize = X * NumberOfBlocks^Y. Your example of X=1000, NumberOfBlocks=1000 and Y=0.5 would result in: 1000*(1000^0.5)=31622. Otherwise if you meant (X*NumberOfBlocks)^Y would result in: (1000*1000)^.5=1000.

NumberOfBlocks refers to countermeasure blocks, not total block count. In my first example NumberOfBlocks is 1.

 

[NeonSturm]

Well we already have anti-AI countermeasures, and they are called dockable drones. Though, they don't force the enemy ai to only pick the drones to shoot at, it just adds more targets in a list for them to choose from to attack, and hence the goal of using decoy drones is to spam that target list with a bunch of dumb targets to help minimize the attack force being applied to the mothership

not with disabled docked entities :p

We need this. But I worry that we require 1000 systems for a ship (like in space engineers thrusters in every direction reactor and gyro without core-stats)

Would make it more realistic (like) but may piss off other players (dislike)

 

[UK_IN_US]

Bonus suggestion: Counter-countermeasure weapon modifications. The modified missile is more able to distinguish between its actual target and decoys, reducing the miss chance (or increasing the damage).

Home on jamming missiles!!!!
This is a really good idea. Maybe if one were to slave jammers to a missile, it would home in on jamming. That way, radar jammers don't act as such a be-all, end-all solution to avoiding missiles.