Combined Arms - Ground Station Space Air Combat Research

[Ultragamer2000]

This game has space combat, so I like it. (That is not the only reason)
But I'm going to start a 4v4 server. And there will be alot of types of warfare.
And this game does not have enough types of other warfare.
No sea, no air, no land, no station. All but sea is possible.
And when my SFW goes on its killing spree, and we find an enemy planet... well (we wont destroy it)
Of course we would raid the place for resources. But what if they have ground forces?
What if the station has boarding defenses.

I need suggestions for ground warfare, planetary air combat and station combat tools
I want to devise effective war machines and a combined arms force that effectively supports each other

Example:

• On the ground, mechs/power armour that have small thrusters that allow them to jump on the planet but to not escape. They are equipped with machine-cannons.

• In the air, light CAS/CSS (Close Air Support/ Close Space Support) combat enemy turrets. This planet is heavly fortified and has planetary shields. The turrets have weak shields, and defend mainly against air/space targets and players.

• The warships in orbit defend against enemy retaliation strikes, and enemy drop parties. The ships have torpedoes and ion missiles that bombard the planet destroying fortifications and shields. They are also attacking the enemy station in orbit of the planet

• The mechs/power armour soldiers are boarding the large defence station in orbit. It is actually a ship with no thrusters in orbit with heavy firepower.

• CSS are bombarding the station to help the boarding party and to defend against enemy boarding ships and also enemy transports, and also enemy warships

So in conclusion, I want to devise a way to reliably assault fortified planets without destroying them, no matter what the scenario, defense station or not

 

[aRottenKomquat]

Combined arms sounds very interesting but I don't think the game in its current state can really support that. I think we'd need much larger planets, actual atmosphere, new types of weapons and system blocks (for example, air-breathing jet engines or non-airtight hull that is cheaper and suitable for atmospheric use, but not space), and a tier of costs where infantry is cheaper than ground vehicles which are cheaper than air vehicles which are cheaper than spaceships. Right now, other than RP purposes, I don't see any reason not to make everything a spaceship.

 

[jayman38]

I think for small-scale combat, Starmade needs multi-purpose, low-efficiency blocks that provide penalties when using more than one block in a group. You are still allowed to use multiple groups within the same vehicle. With these multi-purpose blocks, you can successfully create a relatively small vehicles. You can implement them in larger builds, but with only single blocks in use, it's more efficient to use the regular system blocks we have now. If you use regular system blocks in vehicles, you need to create a very large vehicle, which basically becomes a spaceship anyway.

Example ideas:
pulsejet engine: 1/10 thruster thrust, 2 e/s, 10 e storage
(roughly enough to fly around a planet, but not to escape gravity; no plume due to vehicle scale)
repulse engine: 4 shield storage, 1 shield/sec, 2 e/s, 4 e storage
pulsejet slab: 1/10 thruster thrust (no plume, generally can be used as wings or hoverjets or decoration) (up to 6 in the same group before penalty starts)
pulse cannon: 1 dmg, 5 shots per sec., short range, effectively a nerfed hand/suit laser in block form
portable generator: 10 e/s, 10 e storage
rotor slab, docker slab, dock slab: 1/10 mass limit
single-block, dual-rotor (full rotation) control chairs (1/100 mass limit) (bottom rotates like a lazy susan, sides of the chair can attack a docker or docker slab), chair controller can control the direction of the docked vertical rotating connection, not just the horizontal rotating chair.
combined core/AI block: 1/100 AI engagement range, 10 e storage, 1 e/s

With these elements, you can have some pretty neat low-powered vehicles for tooling around a planet. With enough pulsejet slab wings, you can even have an aerospace fighter that can break free of a planet's gravity.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

You guys might be over-complicating this.

Instead of "reinventing the wheel", why not add some shiny new "hub caps" instead? To make planetary assault more immersive, I propose the following...

- Combine the powers of all shield rechargers and shield capacitors on a planet so that they are shared across all 12 planet plates to form a planetary shield. This would add to the PVP experience without becoming overpowered. It also discourages orbital bombardment and encourages surface/aerial combat.

- Weapons fire is blocked by the combined planetary shield unless you approach the planet and enter the atmosphere; at which point, planetary shields are no longer effective. Your ground forces can attack colonies directly, although the shields of local turrets and surface docked craft still function.

- Damage form weapons and turrets mounted on ships over a certain mass cannot bypass planetary shields. They must deplete the shield first, before being able to damage the colony below.

- Planet plates reorient any craft that enters their gravity; like when you're in astronaut mode. Your tanks APCs, mechs, etc. will align to the planet when you reorient instead of to 'galactic north'.

As for who/what to actually bring to a ground assault mission; you are only limited by your imagination; as there is no shortage of options for that.


Your thoughts?

 

[Ultragamer2000]

Combined arms sounds very interesting but I don't think the game in its current state can really support that. I think we'd need much larger planets, actual atmosphere, new types of weapons and system blocks (for example, air-breathing jet engines or non-airtight hull that is cheaper and suitable for atmospheric use, but not space), and a tier of costs where infantry is cheaper than ground vehicles which are cheaper than air vehicles which are cheaper than spaceships. Right now, other than RP purposes, I don't see any reason not to make everything a spaceship.

What I ment with CAS/CSS is regular bomber/fighters
[doublepost=1477434662,1477434564][/doublepost]

You guys might be over-complicating this.

Instead of "reinventing the wheel", why not add some shiny new "hub caps" instead? To make planetary assault more immersive, I propose the following...

- Combine the powers of all shield rechargers and shield capacitors on a planet so that they are shared across all 12 planet plates to form a planetary shield. This would add to the PVP experience without becoming overpowered. It also discourages orbital bombardment and encourages surface/aerial combat.

- Weapons fire is blocked by the combined planetary shield unless you approach the planet and enter the atmosphere; at which point, planetary shields are no longer effective. Your ground forces can attack colonies directly, although the shields of local turrets and surface docked craft still function.

- Damage form weapons and turrets mounted on ships over a certain mass cannot bypass planetary shields. They must deplete the shield first, before being able to damage the colony below.

- Planet plates reorient any craft that enters their gravity; like when you're in astronaut mode. Your tanks APCs, mechs, etc. will align to the planet when you reorient instead of to 'galactic north'.

As for who/what to actually bring to a ground assault mission; you are only limites by your imagination; as there is no shortage of options for that.
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Your thoughts?

The thing is I asked for ideas and tips for things that work for what we have.
What I meant by CAS/CSS is normal light bombers/fighters
[doublepost=1477434755][/doublepost]Oh and those mechs and tanks you built Dr Whammy are pretty cool as well. They sound useful for station warfare

 

[Dr. Whammy]

What I ment with CAS/CSS is regular bomber/fighters
[doublepost=1477434662,1477434564][/doublepost]
The thing is I asked for ideas and tips for things that work for what we have.
What I meant by CAS/CSS is normal light bombers/fighters

My suggestion is geared for air/spacecraft as well as ground forces; hence why I posted pictures of fighters and SAM sites. I'm sure an adaptation can be made for stations as well. With regard to planets; what do you think of the idea itself?

 

[Ultragamer2000]

My suggestion is geared for air/spacecraft as well as ground forces; hence why I posted pictures of fighters and SAM sites. I'm sure an adaptation can be made for stations as well. With regard to planets; what do you think of the idea itself?

Your Ideas are quite good. That sounds like a good step in the right direction
[doublepost=1477435896,1477435688][/doublepost]Wait do shields not go over to all the plates?
[doublepost=1477435929][/doublepost]And does shields and homebase protection project the planet core?
I would assume shields dont

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Your Ideas are quite good. That sounds like a good step in the right direction
[doublepost=1477435896,1477435688][/doublepost]Wait do shields not go over to all the plates?
[doublepost=1477435929][/doublepost]And does shields and homebase protection project the planet core?
I would assume shields dont

Since I last checked, shields only protect the plate they are installed on. The core and the other plates are completely unprotected. You can have a plate with 100 million shields and 5 million regen/second on it and someone can still blast your core through another plate and send your whole colony hurling off through space like a Frisbee.

Home base protection makes everything; all plates, docked entities and the core invulnerable, and while most agree that having one home base is ok, many PVPers feel that extending home base protection to multiple sites is imbalanced. I think this idea is a good balance between the free invincibility of a home base and having to go out of your way to build 12 heavily defended outposts on a single planet, just to keep it from getting Death-Starred by some D-bag in a titan.

I too would like to see this idea expand to a point where fighters, bombers, tanks, etc have some kind of relevance rather than just decoration. While this is by no means, a finished concept; as you put it; I think a setup like this would be a step in the right direction.

 

[Ultragamer2000]

Dont fighters and bombers already exist or you mean planetary ones
(yes I know fighters exist all my submissions to SMD are fighters)

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Dont fighters and bombers already exist or you mean planetary ones
(yes I know fighters exist all my submissions to SMD are fighters)

Of course, they exist. They just don't have the firepower needed to take out a significantly larger ship. Once shield rechargers were implemented, small ships ceased to be relevant with regard to space combat. Even in large numbers, drones and fighters still have a hard time bringing down a titan's shields. After a while, the amount of ships of that size needed to win would tax the server to the point where neither of you can even fight due to lag.

There were discussions about buffing warheads and Bobby AI intelligence so that torpedo bombers could be a thing but that's not one of Schine's priorities and the subject of warheads tends elicit hostile responses from capital ship fans. It's a shame; since I've actually built a few decent bombers.


While my above idea works for planetary assaults and some station attacks, we need an entirely different game mechanic in place to make fighters a threat to large warships without going overboard and creating a bunch of Luke Skywalker wannabes. So far, nothing comes to mind that won't start another flame war.
[doublepost=1477440102,1477437943][/doublepost]I've given it some thought.

Outside of the planetary assault idea, the only way to make fighters useful against a larger more heavily shielded target is to have a lot of them and
the only way for that to be feasible is for Schine to optimize the game in such a way that lag isn't so easily generated. For now, I recommend the planetary shields and assault idea. Meanwhile, we'll have to wait and see what optimizations Schine makes to the game.

 

[Ultragamer2000]

But i've found this torpedo. It is devestating and a small fighter can launch 2. It utterly shreds through systems and its like a large system piercing gun in a 20 block long railgun torpedo thing that uses cool logic. Its also AI guided.
Ill put the link later.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Just an FYI; If it uses that collision glitch-through mechanic that everyone is so fond of, then it will eventually stop working when they fix collision checks.

 

[StarWars1981]

Just strap MORE warheads on the front and make your own collision hole, glitch-free!

 

[Ultragamer2000]

Torpedo Mk V
Torpedo Link
How it works (its not mine) Also its not a capped torpedo.
It has a bobby AI module so it tracks targets and when it gets to 47-52 blocks away (that is the range unarmed spaceships attack things) it launches a ultra-fast stick of 10 warhead that is so fast the explosion covers more than it should (it uses shootout and pickup rails on a genius manner)