Cloaking Help (Yes I've searched)

[AnthonyAnderson]

So I've watched some youtube videos, raped the search button, and read over the Wiki.

I'm not understanding Cloaking, right now.

More accurately, I'm not understanding how people are even using it. At 1450 e/s/mass, how is it people are getting these massive cloak-stable ships? Insane docked-and-power-vamp'd 100% efficient reactors? Even on a tiny scale not using armor, thrust, radar jamming or anything, I'm not able to get anywhere near a stable cloak. I can't imagine trying to fit thrust or hull/shields.

Anyone have some input?

 

[BDLS]

Make sure you understand how efficient power generation works. Not mass blocks, but long segregated lines.

Also, more mass is bad for cloaking. Use low mass blocks to form your hull. Advanced armor is not going to be a good choice. You might be sacrificing aesthetics for a good perma-cloaker.

 

[Dire Venom]

Heres the design Ive been developing.
It looks somewhat decent, can charge its jump dive in 3 seconds WHILE being perma-cloaked and jammed.
Its great for exploring and general computing without putting yourself in danger.

Good-looking cloaking designs take a lot of time to make and aren't easy. If you have a look in the shipyard there are a number of good player submitted designs.
Try downloading and ripping apart their designs to figure out how to build one : )
(Also using armour blocks is a big no-no, they consume power like crazy)

 

[AnthonyAnderson]

Make sure you understand how efficient power generation works. Not mass blocks, but long segregated lines.

Also, more mass is bad for cloaking. Use low mass blocks to form your hull. Advanced armor is not going to be a good choice. You might be sacrificing aesthetics for a good perma-cloaker.

It's long lines? I thought it was supposed to be "don't let reactor blocks touch each other" ?

 

[kiraen]

You want this
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Not this
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[AnthonyAnderson]

Ahh. See, things I've read before in the past said I wanted
O_O_O_O_O_O_O
------------------------
O_O_O_O_O_O_O

That the more ungrouped reactors, the better the generation. I never thought to look into it to double check, or toy with different designs in-game

 

[Blaza612]

You want this
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Not this
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

You want this:
---------------------------------

--------------------------------

Not this:
-------------------------------
-------------------------------

Looks prettier <3

 

[Dire Venom]

Also, I think the max dimensions of each reactor line matters a lot.
Its more efficient to have a couple of long lines rather than lots of smaller groups.

Heres a good example of an efficient reactor set up:

http://starmadedock.net/content/jump-needle.3448/

 

[jayman38]

In lines shorter than 9 or 10 reactor blocks long, isolated reactor blocks are more efficient, but for maximum efficiency, reactor lines longer than 9 blocks long are the best.

 

[AnthonyAnderson]

So how does the game determine if it is or isn't in a "line" then? As in, does it detect that each reactor block only has 2 connecting, rather than 3 or more? Could I have a "line" shaped like an L and it be just as efficient as a truly straight line?

I'm definitely going to mess around with this idea now, knowing I've been under such a false perception for so long

Edit: Just tested it out, and wow that's a huge difference. So I've also figured out, now, that I can probably lay out the frame for my ships with lines of power blocks, making corners and whatnot without reducing efficiency.


Thanks everyone for the help and patience, the SM community is one of the best I've seen!

 

[jayman38]

Yes, you got it. The game simply detects if there is more than 2 blocks connecting, so you could snake the line around a corner. The game also detects when the line turns back, parallel to itself in the opposite direction, so avoid U-shaped lines. In short, you want the line to spread as far out as possible for the maximum dimension bonus without covering the same X/Y/Z axis point twice.

 

[AnthonyAnderson]

Yes, you got it. The game simply detects if there is more than 2 blocks connecting, so you could snake the line around a corner. The game also detects when the line turns back, parallel to itself in the opposite direction, so avoid U-shaped lines. In short, you want the line to spread as far out as possible for the maximum dimension bonus without covering the same X/Y/Z axis point twice.

Thanks so much.

And of course I'm just now seeing that there's a page specifically for computing the power output of reactor block groups.

The More I Know!

 

[Tunk]

Everyones been pretty vague with power answers, so heres something a bit more technical.

Its not really that the game detects lines looping back on its self or inefficient layouts, its just a result of the calculation used.
The calculation has 2 parts.

Excel formula for a individual group:

=2000000/(1+1.000696^(-0.333*(([sum of dimensions])/3)^1.7))-1000000 +25*[total blocks]

First off, each reactor block is worth a base 25 power per second, thats the last part (25*total blocks).
Second is the Bonus power, this is calculated from the sum of the dimensions of a group of reactor blocks.
People normally get confused at what sum of dimensions means.

It is very simply, X+Y+Z, a 50 long reactor rod is therefore: 50 long+1 high+1 wide = 52.

A group is defined as any blocks touching each other, bonus power on a per block basis increases with size up to ~598 sum dimensions then falls off until it hits the cap (kinda like a bell curve).
The cap is shared for all reactors on the ship, the most bonus power you can receive is 1 million in total.

Or if you are more visual have some graphs:


Eg if you place 2 50 long lines adjacent so that they are touching (and considered 1 group), only 1 block from the second line will contribute to bonus power and you'll only receive the base power on the rest.
In this scenario you would have 50+2+1 = 53 sum dimensions, rather than 100.
This gives 2500 base power (100*25), and something like 15k bonus power.

Place them 1 block apart and they will be 2 separate groups, and provide separate bonus powers equal to their dimensions.
So you will get 50+1+1 = 52, x2.
This gives the same base power, 2500. But gives you something like 29.5k bonus power.

[edit] Probably should have included a optimal scenario:
Now, if we arrange those 100 reactor blocks so they all increase the dimensions of a single reactor (eg a L shape or longer rod) we get:
100+1+1 sum dimensions (rod) 50+51+1 (L shape)
This gives 46,459 bonus power, plus 2500 base power.

 

[Adonis0]

This theory also applies for all three dimensions, it's just hard to explain in words.
You want each block to extend the groups dimension in any direction, if you draw a bounding box around it, and there's power blocks that are within that that are not contributing to extending it, it's not as efficient as it could be. (to try and explain the three dimensional one, just take what tunk said and apply it best you can, and look at others if the three dimensional stuff didn't click)

 

[Ravenskysong]

so how do you figure out why a cloak isn't working?

like my ship. 272 mass
cloak wants 1450 power per block per second
so my ship needs to make 394400 energy per second, min
yet my ship can make 1 mill. its 1294096/1294096 yet my power per SECOND is only 150,710! thats like a third of what i need it to be right?

so i think to myself we must be shooting ourselves in the foot because of unneeded power blocks. so I remove some of my power/capacitor grid. nope. power per second goes down.

I get that systems need to be complicated so we spend time building ships but... really?

so i give it a try again, with more like 150 mass. but it seems like the ratio is weird. I can add more power, more capacitors but I'm only just barely over the needed energy. like I have 1000 extra per second. I'd really like to be able to add jump drives too. is there like an easy list somewhere of the mass of every block so i can just do the math myself?

 

[nightrune]

so how do you figure out why a cloak isn't working?

like my ship. 272 mass
cloak wants 1450 power per block per second
so my ship needs to make 394400 energy per second, min
yet my ship can make 1 mill. its 1294096/1294096 yet my power per SECOND is only 150,710! thats like a third of what i need it to be right?

so i think to myself we must be shooting ourselves in the foot because of unneeded power blocks. so I remove some of my power/capacitor grid. nope. power per second goes down.

I get that systems need to be complicated so we spend time building ships but... really?

so i give it a try again, with more like 150 mass. but it seems like the ratio is weird. I can add more power, more capacitors but I'm only just barely over the needed energy. like I have 1000 extra per second. I'd really like to be able to add jump drives too. is there like an easy list somewhere of the mass of every block so i can just do the math myself?

Not that o know of. I just use the wiki or config files.