Burst Fire Block

[ltmauve]

A block that allows weapons to burst-fire. Useful for missiles, artillery, and anything else that's slow

Connect them to a weapons controller to get them to work.

Spoiler: Old content

A weapons array will need one BF block per weapon group to increase the burst-fire capacity by 1. If the number of weapon groups is not a factor of the number of BF blocks (like 10 BF blocks and 6 weapons groups) then only some of the weapons groups will fire on the last burst.

Reload time: The gap between burst-firings is about a quarter second. The reload time is dependent on how many shots were fired. The number of shots fired is tracked. The counter will decrease one normal reload time after the last shot was fired. If the burst-fire capacity of the weapon has been reached, the weapon will not fire.

So, new implementation concept that is less OP, but same basic idea: Now weapons store energy to fire, and reload time is based on energy draw rate. A weapons cluster with no burst fire blocks has enough energy to fire one volley. Formula for energy storage of a weapons cluster is:
firing energy * (1 + (BF blocks/weapon groups)^0.333)
In addition, charge rate drops to .98^(1 + (BF blocks/weapon groups)^0.333), and that is multiplied by .9 each time the current energy of the weapon cluster passes a multiple of the firing energy.
Increasing the energy capacity of the weapon cluster increases the time between burst shots.

TL;DR BF blocks have diminishing returns to the burst fire count. Reloading is slower the more BF blocks you have, and gets slower the more charged you are.

 

[NeonSturm]

I have had a similar idea:

You can charge weapons. If you do not charge weapons, they charge for 1 shot and then fire.

Charged weapons (for each shot except the last one in your burst - or the default one) add a fluctuation to your power storage.

1. Option 1:
   1. This fluctuation disables the usable energy until you fire your weapon and also the efficiency of your systems connected to it.
   2. Bigger storage = less fluctuation percentage = better overload/burst abilities for your ship's systems.
2. Option 2:
   • Weapon blocks suck energy like a storage - this energy is used to burst fire.
   • Burst-Fire blocks add storage to weapon arrays.
   • Instead of reload, you have a power-transfer rate from ship to weapon storage.

 

[ltmauve]

I have had a similar idea:

You can charge weapons. If you do not charge weapons, they charge for 1 shot and then fire.

Charged weapons (for each shot except the last one in your burst - or the default one) add a fluctuation to your power storage.

1. Option 1:
   1. This fluctuation disables the usable energy until you fire your weapon and also the efficiency of your systems connected to it.
   2. Bigger storage = less fluctuation percentage = better overload/burst abilities for your ship's systems.
2. Option 2:
   • Weapon blocks suck energy like a storage - this energy is used to burst fire.
   • Burst-Fire blocks add storage to weapon arrays.
   • Instead of reload, you have a power-transfer rate from ship to weapon storage.

Actually, option two might be a way of implementing this reload, and giving power cost to things like missiles without requiring massive amounts of power tanks.

 

[Vyor]

Actually, option two might be a way of implementing this reload, and giving power cost to things like missiles without requiring massive amounts of power tanks.

...does anyone else realize how OP this is? No? Just me?

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

While it probably won't work with missiles the activator block should allow you to build ships that will fire a burst. It will probably less effective though due to the time in the delay block.

Now that I think about it you will be able to create multiple separate missiles and hook them all up to a activator + delay chain and have burst delay. I hope we can have more control over the delay blocks demonstrated in that Mushroom Fleet stream, the delay they showed would be fairly long for a burst.

 

[ltmauve]

Well, Rabien already posted a video showing that separate activator blocks won't fire a missile before reloading occurs.

...does anyone else realize how OP this is? No? Just me?

How exactly is it OP? Really, giving massive weapons a recharge rate instead of a reload time would result in interesting mechanics.

 

[Vyor]

Well, Rabien already posted a video showing that separate activator blocks won't fire a missile before reloading occurs.

How exactly is it OP? Really, giving massive weapons a recharge rate instead of a reload time would result in interesting mechanics.

Imagine burst fire missiles...

 

[ltmauve]

Burst fire missiles. Yes, that is in fact why I came up with this idea. I'd compromise my ability to spam a volley of missiles every three seconds for the ability to shoot ten volleys at once, twice a minute. Especially if larger weapon groups become slower at firing, this kind of feature would be a method of allowing large ships to duel effectively. Line up your shot, and fire your entire burst, hoping to do some damage.

And yes, a linear scale for the burst blocks probably is OP.

So, new implementation concept that is less OP, but same basic idea: Now weapons store energy to fire, and reload time is based on energy draw rate. A weapons cluster with no burst fire blocks has enough energy to fire one volley. Formula for energy storage of a weapons cluster is:
firing energy * (1 + (BF blocks/weapon groups)^0.333)
In addition, charge rate drops to .98^(1 + (BF blocks/weapon groups)^0.333), and that is multiplied by .9 each time the current energy of the weapon cluster passes a multiple of the firing energy.

TL;DR BF blocks have diminishing returns to the burst fire count. Reloading is slower the more BF blocks you have, and gets slower the more charged you are.

NeonSturm thanks for the idea about energy

 

[NeonSturm]

I think it is op with 1+ x^0.3333 alone, but I like your approach on a variable charge rate.

But I think it should be a formula easier to understand.

• 0% charge = 100% charge rate
• charge for x shots = 90% charge rate
• 100% charge = 90% / (projectilesPerBurst >= 1) charge rate.

And then create an asymptotic formula out of these three points.

projectilesPerBurst could be:

• 100% weapon blocks = 1 shot
• 50% weapon, 50% BF blocks = desired amount of shots.
  
• 100% BF blocks = infinite shots (because then you could not shoot a weapon at all because of no weapon and no cpu - if you count it too)

Burst damage (simplified example):

• 5dmg * 5projectiles = 25 = 100%
  
• 4*6 or 6*4 = 24 = 96%
  
• 3*7 or 7*3 = 21 = 84%

 

[ltmauve]

50% weapon, 50% BF blocks = desired amount of shots.

Well, what is the "desired amount of shots?" it depends on the application, and should come at a cost. If I decide that a 3-round burst is what I want, then I only need put 27 BF blocks per weapon group. Are what you saying is that the number of shots should also depend on the size of the weapon groups?

x shots = 90% charge rate

I'm pretty sure this is exactly the same as my idea, except without the max charge rate reduction that mine has. I decided that the max charge rate should decrease as the number of shots increased, because the versatility of additional shots in a row should come at a cost - reduced rate of fire between single shots.

 

[NeonSturm]

ltmauve "I decided that the max charge rate should decrease as the number of shots increased"

Me too. I accidentally wrote it with "*" instead of "/" - I fixed it.

ltmauve "Well, what is the "desired amount of shots?"

It is the maximum number of shots which are still balanced and good for the game.

 

[ltmauve]

What's that "desired number" ?

Seriously, with the cube root of the BF:group ratio as the shot count, you need 27 per group to get 3 shots. To get 4, 64. The size of the BF group will get pretty large if you get a larger burst count. If you are honestly concerned about someone crashing the server using a 1,000 burst nuke, keep in mind that it would take 1,000,000,000 blocks to do that, and that sort of trick can be done using lots of smaller weapons.

 

[NeonSturm]

That is why I am not complaining about or suggesting exactly my numbers.

I just showed in an example how it should be done to not confuse everybody about the calculation of it. Suggestions for improvements are welcome

 

[Vyor]

Sorry... but if you burst fire missiles you can potentially 1 shot any ship you want... sure, you would have trouble when fighting more than 1 ship... but that isn't much in the way of balance...

 

[ltmauve]

Sorry... but if you burst fire missiles you can potentially 1 shot any ship you want... sure, you would have trouble when fighting more than 1 ship... but that isn't much in the way of balance...

True. But with multiple missile computers you could fire one after the other, and get the same effect. I'm just saying its annoying to fire a volley, wait 6 seconds, fire a volley, wait 6 seconds, fire a volley, wait 6 seconds, fire a volley, wait 6 seconds, fire a volley, wait 6 seconds, as opposed to a burst volley and then going and doing something else for a a while. With a quarter-second (or something of that magnitude) of a gap between shots, you wouldn't be able to put ten nukes up against someone's hull immediately.

 

[Vyor]

True. But with multiple missile computers you could fire one after the other, and get the same effect. I'm just saying its annoying to fire a volley, wait 6 seconds, fire a volley, wait 6 seconds, fire a volley, wait 6 seconds, fire a volley, wait 6 seconds, fire a volley, wait 6 seconds, as opposed to a burst volley and then going and doing something else for a a while. With a quarter-second (or something of that magnitude) of a gap between shots, you wouldn't be able to put ten nukes up against someone's hull immediately.

But each of those volleys would be weaker than your burst... If I had a missile boat(dozens of incredibly powerful missiles) and set it to burst fire, anything I shoot dies.

You know that 6 sec. wait? It's there for balance!

 

[NeonSturm]

I think the idea is to choose between hit&run ability and dps.

You should have the dps to disable a shield, but then in advance do much less damage. Think of Klingon War-birds.

 

[ltmauve]

Yeah. Missiles might need to have steeper charging penalties to be fair. Also, in terms of doing soft-caps, after a certain point the BF blocks should stop adding by the ratio of weapon groups and start added by the ratio of the entire weapons cluster.

 

[Vyor]

I think the idea is to choose between hit&run ability and dps.

You should have the dps to disable a shield, but then in advance do much less damage. Think of Klingon War-birds.

Aren't those things completely overpowered... I mean, they can take out ships many times their size...

 

[ltmauve]

I'm going to edit the OP with new mechanics now. Check up there.