Blasphemy: More Complicated Manufacturing. Much More Complicated.

[Edymnion]

Okay, this is probably going to sound insane, but I've been looking at Factorio recently. Mostly just watching some videos, but as someone who enjoys building automation, its pretty fascinating looking.

And it got me thinking how much fun it would be to build a working factory on a Starmade station. As in, full on automation of physically having to move things around.

Like instead of containers and cargo space that just auto-pull from anywhere on the ship/station, if you had to make rails and rail cars to physically carry cargo blocks from one location to another. Build machines to move those cargo blocks into other machines that craft your blocks for you instead of just using a Minecraft style crafting bench.

Make it so that if you want to mass produce thousands of blocks at a time, you'll need an obviously large factory to store the bits, move the bits around, assemble everything, then move the finished goods into storage.

Make it so mining ships would actually fill storage pods, and then offload the pods to be more slowly emptied while replacement pods are put back in place. Cargo ships that actually have containers they pick up to take with them instead of just instantly transferring blocks in/out via the docker.

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While I didn't like cargo at first, I've ended up really liking it because its forced me to build bigger and more interesting things to house all that space, I think I'd like to take that to the next level and build huge automated factories instead of just having one block crafting benches with a giant hidden block of enhancers off to the side.

 

[Sachys]

Have you played FortressCraft Evolved (gets rather cheap in sales)?

It has a full factory setup (actually a main stay of gameplay) with conveyors being a major component. I rather liked in EA, but havent played it since.

 

[DrTarDIS]

Factorio is fun in it's own right. I'm a big fan of having 3 exoskelitons a lazer grid, 2 fusion reactors and a smattering of shields in my power armor. combine that with a shotgun filled with AP rounds and even blue bugs are just meat to be shredded.

That being said, I don't think starmade would benefit from that type of factory-sprawl without marked improvements to AI and FPS.

I WOULD like to see a sane resource-chain and component complexity. Pipes and girders, comparing the two together from a resource:end-block standpoint really shows how haphazard the "balance" is. Be nice to see things like computers needing motherboards and circuits, or other "sane" steps in manufacturing. Have you tried to come up with something based on that?

 

[The_Owl]

Lag

Just simple, plain lag will come from an idea like this.

 

[Zekester81]

You can make things to move your cargo around already, even if it ultimately does transfer directly from one cargo module to the next. I have built systems that move cargo containers around, and to automate transfer on docking into containers, which are then transported about a facility, unloaded where needed, and lined up to be automatically re-attached to the cargo ship. No, I cant go and physically move my cargo out of the cargo space, but I sure can move it all around through automation right now. I have even made little "cargo skiffs" to haul goods between locations on a station, and have considered building a rail system to move them about and transfer cargo where needed. Logic and rails, the sky's the limit!

It would be cool to be able to move it physically, piece by piece. But I'm also happy with what I can do with it now.

Edit: After coming back I felt I should say more. I didn't mention factories, which was kind of your main point. We can already specialize and automate our factories, even if all the machines look the same, or are basically the same internally. More specialization requires even more sprawl, even with the current design. It has a more realistic feel with equipment for different things, but it costs space and dev time.

I am happy with whatever happens in that regard. It would be neat to build a real factory with cool equipment, or I'm cool with building fancy cases and filling them with the current factory requirement blocks. The capabilities already exist, it's just if you want it forced by the game, or if you want to go out of your way to build an incredibly complex system to handle it on your own. Either way, its incredibly complex. The only other issue is the moving of cargo physically between areas, which I gave my two cents on above. I just wanted to point out that these things can already be done, or made to simulate the desired effect, with current game tech.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Have you played FortressCraft Evolved (gets rather cheap in sales)?

It has a full factory setup (actually a main stay of gameplay) with conveyors being a major component. I rather liked in EA, but havent played it since.

That's really cool! I could enjoy building factories like this in Starmade!

 

[PLIX]

i think the current system is good it allows for more freedom if you wanna make an rp factory you can but the thing its gonna effect the most is gonna be PvPers they will have to rework all theyre stations and make them hyper efficient and in the end us builders/RPers are gonna suffer the most.

but on the flip side it could encourage more freedom and allow for players to actually build factories and make really original designs

this would be good but i would prefer them to add coloured pipes first

overall the idea is great and i would like to see this in the future but i would not put it at the top of the list

 

[Edymnion]

I think I mostly like the idea of blocks and goods being more "real" and less "abstract concepts".

Cargo started going down that road by giving us physical representation of stored blocks, which gave us the option of being able to build holding tanks and storage buildings that would actually fill with goods to give you a "Whoa, look at all that stuff!" moment.

I'd like to see that expanded a bit more instead of all the blocks being "virtual" until you actually place them.

Could even give the NPCs something to do. You can have NPCs unload your ship by hand, or you could build automated systems to do it faster. NPCs could assemble stuff for you, or you could build factories to do it faster.

People complain that there isn't really enough to do, and the fact that you can go straight from starting out the game on a new server to building titans immediately (more or less) doesn't help that. If you had to build factories and processing plants in order to refine your goods and make your components instead of just instantly having your ships unload and wham bam thank you ma'am finished, it would present a slowing effect to large ship building. You still could build big and fast, but you'd need to invest a lot more time and effort to get yourself there first.

 

[Lecic]

"What if we made the manufacturing process require dozens of moving entities, increasing lag and making it more difficult for unloaded factory production to be added in the future?"

Sure, it might look cool, but I don't think the extra load and complexity is worth it.

 

[jstenholt]

Yeah, Factorio is great, but it's Factorio. I'm not sure the concept that makes complexity in Factorio fun would translate well to Starmade.

 

[Madman198237]

With a little bit of logic interactivity with shipyards, you would be able to do something like this (Program one or two shipyards so at the touch of a button they would make the two separate parts of a turret, release them to be caught by pickup rail, moved to a different location, put together [might get interesting], and then moved on down the "assembly line"), but it would have to be purely decorative. No way should you force some sort of crazily complex system on people. More logical thinking would be good, such as with intermediate steps for building computers (First build motherboards, etc.), but it should come with increased automation and ease-of-use as well.

 

[Valiant70]

Factorio is fun in it's own right. I'm a big fan of having 3 exoskelitons a lazer grid, 2 fusion reactors and a smattering of shields in my power armor. combine that with a shotgun filled with AP rounds and even blue bugs are just meat to be shredded.

That being said, I don't think starmade would benefit from that type of factory-sprawl without marked improvements to AI and FPS.

I WOULD like to see a sane resource-chain and component complexity. Pipes and girders, comparing the two together from a resource:end-block standpoint really shows how haphazard the "balance" is. Be nice to see things like computers needing motherboards and circuits, or other "sane" steps in manufacturing. Have you tried to come up with something based on that?

Anything comparable to Factorio, any of the Minecraft tech mod packs, etc. would be overkill. What we have is underwhelming. A balance needs to be found.

i think the current system is good it allows for more freedom if you wanna make an rp factory you can but the thing its gonna effect the most is gonna be PvPers they will have to rework all theyre stations and make them hyper efficient and in the end us builders/RPers are gonna suffer the most.

It's not about role-play. It's about gameplay mechanics. If production is more of a challenge, it'll make the economy more interesting and generate more motivation to take part in it.

"What if we made the manufacturing process require dozens of moving entities, increasing lag and making it more difficult for unloaded factory production to be added in the future?"

Sure, it might look cool, but I don't think the extra load and complexity is worth it.

Hi Lecic! You have completed your required naysayer post, rating satisfactory. Have a good day.

I think I mostly like the idea of blocks and goods being more "real" and less "abstract concepts".

Cargo started going down that road by giving us physical representation of stored blocks, which gave us the option of being able to build holding tanks and storage buildings that would actually fill with goods to give you a "Whoa, look at all that stuff!" moment.

I'd like to see that expanded a bit more instead of all the blocks being "virtual" until you actually place them.

Could even give the NPCs something to do. You can have NPCs unload your ship by hand, or you could build automated systems to do it faster. NPCs could assemble stuff for you, or you could build factories to do it faster.

I like this sort of idea, but we must be careful not to make it overly complicated or hard to learn or it will be too hard to get anything done in the game. Imagine building your first reasonably sized mining ship, mining some asteroids, and then landing at a shop and puzzling over how the heck to get the stuff out of the cargo bay. Granted, the in-game tutorial system could cure this if it's done well. NPCs and machines shouldn't be a requirement to get stuff done, just a requirement for doing things on a larger scale.

 

[Madman198237]

This thread, evidently, was properly named. All that remains now is a vote.

Is the sentence to be Death or perhaps Banishment?

 

[Lecic]

Hi Lecic! You have completed your required naysayer post, rating satisfactory. Have a good day.

It's not "naysayer," it's legitimate complaints against a suggestion. Making everything on rails is a terrible idea from a lag, ease of use, and unloaded sector production standpoint. Do you have any actual argument, or are you just going to bullshit?

 

[Edymnion]

Anything comparable to Factorio, any of the Minecraft tech mod packs, etc. would be overkill. What we have is underwhelming. A balance needs to be found.

Yeah, Factorio is way overkill for Starmade, but its way out there in the far reaches of the direction I think we need to move in.

Especially with trade being set up, I think it would benefit things greatly if producing things required more of an investment. So for example in a given amount of space you could make a little bit of everything, or a whole lot of one thing. If it takes a good bit of time, effort, and resources to set up a factory that can really crank something out, fewer people will go to that trouble. The ones who do go to that trouble though will have an in-demand good that can be traded.

Multiple players specializing in different things means an economy gets set up naturally.

 

[Valiant70]

Do you have any actual argument, or are you just going to bullshit?

Yep! I'm just giving you a hard time for being brief and salty. There's a lot that can be done without physically moving parts for one thing. Imagine a system similar to the LOD blocks, but for animations. The blocks can be static and the animations can represent what's happening. For another thing, rails and the physics engine aren't done yet. Later in development, such things may be far more CPU efficient. Imagine if Schema can pull off an optimization update like the recent combat lag-fix, except for rails. Tons of moving parts aren't bad. The game just isn't ready for THAT MUCH STUFF yet.

 

[Valiant70]

Some things I'd like to see, following the theme of switching from infinite-sized containers to what we have now:

• Pipes (or something similar) to move items rather than having them warp from machine to machine with SPACE MAGICKS
• Separate high-capacity storage from manufacturing
• Pipes and stuff connect to machinery groupings. The controller block is just a computer.

 

[jontyfreack]

Pipes

HAIL PIPE