Big Ship vs Small Ship - PROBLEM SOLVED

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    one, a shockwave does need a medium to travel through, however the immense radiation does not.

    two, while large ships should be slow, I agree with trollerbobman that a capital ship made of thrusters should be just as maneuverable as a fighter
     
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    On ouir clan server we have played with different Max speeds, up to 250. It\'s since been scaled back to 120 and we\'ll keep testing back up towards the 200 mark. At high speeds you currently get too many collision issues with large ships and it tends to lock up the server.

    The positive of a higher max is that you actually see the differences in acceleration between ships of different mass. My ship takes a long time to reach max speed or turn - a fighter is a great deal quicker.
     
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    Schema recently posted in /vg/ how the next update will address the issues with ship turning.
     
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    @ EpicFailLord123

    There are quite a few things wrong with this, you need to understand both how a bomb works, and how it would react to it\'s environment.
    Firstly, an explosion from a bomb is an incredibly fast chemical reaction. The molecules in the bomb react together, break apart and form new molecules. There is not enough space for the new molecules, so they push against each other, and force themselves away from one another. This creates intense pressure and is basically why explosions blow things apart. This also creates the heat output. The molecules are so tightly packed (pressurised), that they\'re vibrating like crazy because they\'re trying to find their own space.

    Now think about that for a second, that\'s quite important, it\'s a reaction which creates highly pressurised molecules trying to find their own space.

    On Earth an explosion in a field would be surrounded by air. The air molecules would offer little resistance against the explosion. The molecules would push the air outwards with great force, creating a shockwave.
    In space, for all intents and purposes a vacuum, there would be absolutely no resistance against the explosion. This means all the molecules from the explosion would be able to push out and move in every direction un-opposed. Molecules move at close to the speed of light, so there will be an initial struggle while they all try to find their own way out from the centre, but since there\'s nothing holding them there for very long, the molecules dissipate into the vacuum of space almost instantly. For an explosion in a vacuum, it\'s that small initial struggle that\'s the only effective bit. Also, as a result of that, the proximity to it\'s target would be highly critical to it\'s effectiveness.

    The power behind the explosion comes from the persistant pressure surrounding the reaction which forces the molecules to vibrate against each other for as long as possible. Since this allows the pressure to build, it also directly causes the temperature to increase proportionally.
    Any bomb in an enclosed space is orders of magnitude more devasting than if it\'s detonated in air.

    Also, just to note, the chemical reactions between the molecules can also release energy in another form - radiation, Beta and/or Gamma. Depending on the frequency/wavelength of that gamma radiation, it could be anything from radio waves, through the visible light spectrum, to x-rays and gamma rays.

    TL:DR
    A decent analogy would be to compare punching an idiot in the face to punching thin air. You put the same power into each strike. When you hit the idiot, you hope the lesson sinks in. But when you punch the air, it\'s as if you\'re just aggressively waving.

    So, no, a nuclear explosion in space would not be a 10 foot invisible fire ball that would last for a year (a mini sun with it\'s own gravity? o_O); it would be almost the complete polar opposite. It would release just as much light energy and radiation as a nuclear explosion would here on Earth, and it\'s \'diameter\' would expand at almost the speed of light, thus it would be over in a fraction of a second.
     
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    totally possible for small ship to take out a big ship and for another this is a game not real life so it is possible for that ever the game developer wants it to be like if you don\'t like it move on to a game you do like or go make your own game. Anything is possible in a game....



    and no where in the description of the game did i ever see the words space simulator. so yeah....
     
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    That is not helpful since it gives no info, you probably mean this part of Schema\'s post:


    - ship turning speed now directly depends on ship dimension (build a stick: great roll, not so good yaw and pitch...) balanced to be a bonus.
     
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    I mostly spend time playing Starmade but i come to the forums looking for something useful like addressing problem with docking system as i think i might have a solution, but found your comments again funny so i thought i would write my thoughts on your funny post again.

    First off you are in a simulation of space that was created by a talented programmer from what I have seen of the game he/she wants to have a close simulation with out the gravity fields and such and you know that\'s fine I am happy with that if I want close to realism I play KSP but even that has some things that just don\'t work right but there very close but there engine sucks balls but that\'s off topic.

    Myth

    A large space craft can not travel as fast as a small vessel. FALSE.

    If you have enough power and thrust you can travel as fast as a small craft.

    Fact

    A large vessel with large mass will accelerate slower then a small vessel True

    “this is based on our current Tech level”

    Plausible space is hard to understand not even our most brilliant people have a full understanding of physics the fact is even Steven Hawking has been wrong about things,so please don\'t feel upset if you don\'t grasp physics, but there are papers out there that have very convincing data that we might be able to not have to be worried about mass “FTL Drives” Alcubierre Drive this drive if ever made would be that bypass on what we understand currently about space for example in the workings of this theoretical drive as well as making a field of negative energy wrapped around a ship “Warp Field” pushing the ship into subspace where inertia would not be a problem as the ship is outside of space time, the amount of power this drive would need is insane but recently from other articles I have read its plausible to create enough power, that been said in this simulation we could easily say that in there universe they have mastered FTL.

    Turn Rate, same thing applies if you have enough power and thrust you will only have to fight inertia in space nothing else unless your near a gravity field and then yes your big ship will turn allot slower then a little buzz box with some cannons and maybe you squeezed in rockets ect.

    For those who may not know Inertia would only effect the acceleration of an object not its TOP SPEED and the larger the mass the more Inertia you will have to Overcome e.g. Thrusters dampening field and such.

    Cloaking well with our current Tech we can cloak an object from microwaves I have no idea what kind of power is needed but also possible right now.

    Radar Jamming nothing new. “does not require any power as most stealth I have seen is more about absorbing the frequency that get sent out by radar”

    small craft vs large craft.

    History has shown us many times that it is possible for small craft to take on big foe, even in sci-fi we have seen this in Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, ect and John Sheridan I am almost 100% sure you seen Babylon 5 thus you picked the Name John Sheridan who turned the tides of war against the shadows using smaller ships to take on those massive shadow ships............
     
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    My faith in human kind just increased a bit. I keep telling that, and how, as also seen in sci fi movies/series, the capital ships are actually the ones that, even though less acceleration, reach the highest speed levels, wether it\'s in warp/hyperspace or just reaching a max sub-light speed like in StarGate serie, the fighters park/dock with the big ships as these big ships are those which travel faster and longer distances than small fighters.



    To make it realistic we should also add this fuel system some people mentioned, which would limit fighter\'s travel to just sectors, not hunting players for hours in an OP fighter.
     
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    Frankly I believe that the too big ships should die unless surrounded by a fleet of not too big ships. A single player shouldn\'t be allowed to have a too big ship.
     
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    I don\'t have good wifi, so I only play single-player... so... However, I also have a laptop, so there\'s alot of lag and I won\'t be able to use large ships anyway.
     
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    why? just why? then what is the point in even building a massive ship? i mean, the best thing about starmade is that you can actually build your vehicle and use it too fight other vehicle. people spend time and recources in building massive ships, and that would all go to waste if those ships are completely useless by themselfs.

    this just sounds so extremely selfish and lazy in my opinion. what i hear you say is:\"i don\'t feel like getting the recources/money and or time to get a ship that is equally powerfull as the ship i want to fight, but instead want to make the \"too big ship\" die unless he has a fleet with him, even though the guy with the big ship spend 10 times more time and/or recources building his ship than it took me to make mine.\"

    no ship should be useless alone. nobody would spend time and effort into building a titan, only for it to be completely useless against much smaller fighter or cruiser.Building a big ship should be worth something. Having a big ship should be worth something. Simply because there went much more effort in making them.

    the thing that could stop people from getting a shit ton of money really fast and then buying a Titan (which breaks the game) is just fixing the economie.
     
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    What is big? What is small? It is all relavant to the person or group who uses them. To some a big ship is one 2km long, a small one of 400m long, while a too big one is 15km long. The conversation of Big vs too Big is just silly.
     
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    I alway love those silly persons who say \"A fighter should be able to take down a big ship\"

    I think the most important thing to discuss here is not the definition of a big ship rather than the most efficient way to lock away those insane persons.

    The point is that big ships are more powerfull... because they are big and have more space for guns,energy generators,power tanks,thrusters,shields and basically everything else.

    If the Death star destroys an entire Planet thats fine but he is not able to kill some tiny fighters?Jeah that doesnt make sense.

    So if those fighter lovers stop whining about it we could get back to the OP

    @John sheridan: I mostly agree with you Ideas but an tractor beam or something else(like balanced ion cannons) to kill of Fighters which found a weak spot would be great.



    PS:My Borg Cube 200^3 blocks big has an mass/thrust ratio of 1,25 by only using one single vertical section to mount thrusters so screw fighters
     
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    Actually my pooint - replace massively powerful spinal cannon with thousands of smaller side-cannon - and since it\'s the side, unless your ships are wider than they are long, it\'d have more room for such.

    Turrets on wet-navy battleships were partially there so they could use the same guns to fire on both sides and to the front (or rear, if the turret was behind the superstructure).

    A broadside was still the most powerful because you could fire ALL the main guns (and many of the secondaries) at the same target, assuming you had crossed the T. Similarly, sailing-age ships with most of their cannon mounted on the side could deal massive damage to an enemy ship if they crossed that same T - more cannon firing at a ship which could only fire a few back equalled a disparity of firepower, not to mention the cannon balls could smash down the entire length of the ship (if they had enough momentum) and do more damage than simply smashing through the side and out the other (or whatever).



    But we can\'t have side-firing fixed cannon until that is implemented, and so far as I know, turrets can clip through things to fire, so basically all your turrets can fire at the same target? I dunno on that last...



    Which eliminates the point of careful turret placement....
     
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    A fighter SHOULD be able to take down a titan....

    But only if said fighter has lots of friends helping.

    A single fighter? HELL no.



    On another note, I was under the impression that the death star had been (I think, according to the dialog in the film) designed to repel attacks from large ships - not fighters. But still, those TIE pilots seriously sucked. And why were there so few? the second death star had more fighters supporting it and wasn\'t even completed (apart from the main weapon, apparently).
     
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    And furthermore, the DS2 was going to be weakness-less because even the exhaust ports were now too small to stuff a jawa through. They HAD to attack it before they finished the hull or it would\'ve been impossible to kill it. And that was Palatine\'s plan the whole time.

    On the subject at hand, no, a lone fighter should NOT be able to beat a capital ship. But if you don\'t have turrets on it or docked fighters, and you can\'t kill the thing before its peashooter AMCs knock out your shields, then not only are you a poor shipwright, you almost DESERVE to have that little paper-meche ship core you.

    A good capital ship will have anti-fighter defenses on it. My assault barge has about 30 turrets on it, most of them point-defense to cover blind spots. And ALL of them are capable of aiming at some vector behind the ship to prevent fighters from parking behind me and shooting missiles into my thruster grid. Big ships need litle ships, be they docked fighters or automated turrets. That\'s how it goes. Unless you plan to spam King\'s Blood heat-seekers all over the place, but I don\'t think server admins will be happy if your wild shots start blasting holes in Trade Guild Shops.
     
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    Stratergy in every engagement where small foe fight a larger foe been on a battle field with men taking out tanks with sticky bombs or fighters blowing up large ships at sea or in space it all comes down to Stratergy, if you have a plan and a brain and out think your enemy you will have Victory.

    So if your not able to come up with a plan of using your small ship against a capital maybe you need to be in a capital.

    Last thing is Team leading a group of friends to attack a large capital to take all its juicy loot with no plan is going to fail but if you all work together and have a plan of attack i am sure you will have Victory also comunication is a big factor.
     
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    to real-world craft, are forgetting a few important concepts. Turning a large StarMade craft is, in most cases, not actually slower than turning a small one. While it may take longer to turn a certain number of degrees, the linear speed of the far points of the craft is likely to be much, much higher. This is the reason that large craft cannot turn quickly in real life: not because there is not enough thrust, but rather because turning sharply would batter crew about and violently dislodge pieces of the hull at the ship\'s extremeties as force is rapidly applied in one direction to turn, then the other to stop.

    The obvious way to represent this limitation in-game is to scale turning to match a maximum linear speed, not angular speed, which requires knowledge of the ship\'s dimensions. Based on the reference mentioned above, this sounds like what Schema\'s planning (and, some might remember, was my original solution posted a while ago).

    So, no, your Star Destroyer will not be doing a three second U-turn.
     
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    first off, the only case where a fighter should be able to kill a capital is when there are 20 fighters and just 1 capital sized ship, and no support. second all those examples of infantry taking out tanks and fighters torpedoing large ships, you forget how many dozens, if not hundreds of such infantry and planes were shot down and killed before one could destroy just a single ship or tank, not to mention the fact that sticky grenades were a bad example since they tended to stick to the thrower... for the turning aspect, what matters is how fast you can change direction, not the speed of the endpoints, how would that help the pilot? it\'s not like there is collision damage and no one would ram a ship. in my opinion, Capital ships are fine, fighters are fine, but some things are missing and the shield system, when being shot at should not be completely disabled for the dowtime (not when destroyed, just hit) but simply crippled, it makes it possible for a ship core with one ACM to take down a behemoth with a million shield simply because it is not finished, and believe me, it is not fun being attacked like that