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# Before we start: This topic is in the first place to talk about same mass vessel combat in a 1vs1 pvp fight on smaller scale (my example:100mass, up to 500 mass should work), and fighters that have the purpose of attacking bigger sized ships are not the matter of this talk.
# My last question is about embedding a good fighter design into slightly larger battles of 5vs5 where 4 ships on each side are fighters, and one is a flagship of 10 times the fighters mass.
Introducing Story
3 days ago, I tried to make a dogfight vs another player on Genxova just for fun, and we weren't able to get our shields down at all. I thought: hey his fighter is pretty strong amoured and maybe just as drone purpose in a fight vs bigger ships as company. He didn't build his fighter around the purpose being a threat to other small sized vessels, but to attack bigger targets. Basically it was wrapped into adv. armor and had some decent shields.
"Thx god the fighters I build are suitable for 1vs1 pvp fights, too bad we didn't use mine but his." Was my thought. I was wronged very hard on this one.
So some time ago I made fighter, name FGT Colonial Viper, and it is my interpretation of the Battlestar Galactica one's.
The actual fight scenario vs AI
Then, yesterday, the server was lagging me out again, and so I tried a 1vs1 vs my own pirate controlled fighter, thinking "Hey my fighter has pretty small shields and I only used basic hull, it should be interesting."
It came to my attention, that I neither of us was able to defeat the other, and the fight was just as frustrating as the one on Genxova.
Colonial Fighter's original systems:
100mass;only basic hull; cc with 36 total size; 2k shields with 99 regen; max possible thrust (225); 2 missile-beam 3x3; around 3k power recharge
So I remade the fighter entirely and changed all of its systems; power first to achieve the maximum of power possible first (now that I learned first if you design a pvp fighter: its overall force is all about the power it regenerates).
New specs:
only basic hull, some hull parts replaced with systems; cc with 66 total size; 500 shields with 20 regen; 160 speed; around 8k power recharge
The fight vs the pirate AI in this 1vs1 was able to defeat me this time.
Noticable design choices and mechanics
Things to notice on the new design:
-The AI still needed like 5 minutes to bring me into a defeatable position where I had a significant system loss of 30%. This means a human fighter would need even longer to defeat me, as the AI has a advantage in aiming (yes it is possible to spray the cc fire into movement direction and all that stuff, but even if a human is as good as the AI he still would take 5 minutes).
-The smart missiles never hit, or can get shoot down. This mean that even with 160 speed you are fast enough in this size of ship to evade a big chunk of projectiles.
-The shields were not one shot, it needed like 10 cc-bullets or 2 missile hits to bring them down.
-Targetting of certain ship parts was never possible, even when we only had 100m distance between each other.
My questions and the purpose of this thread
So why all this fuzz about some small fighter combat?
Here are my questions:
How can I design a small fighter, that it can defeat itsself in a 1vs1 within less than 5 minutes? The less time needed the better. Important here: The fighter should be inside a basic hull and not be some kind of "glass cannon" - visible system parts are not welcome and should only be visible in rare spots, and very slow fighters of 10m/s that shoot 5 smart missiles once are a no go as well. And the human fighters are smart and not very dumb.
How would you design a small fighter, that can defeat many other small fighter designs in a 1vs1 within less than 3 minutes of dogfighting?
Can we design fighters, that are actually fun to fight with in a 5vs5? Where 4 vessels on each side are fighters, and one vessel is some kind of flagship with 10 times the fighters mass. The thing is: the small fighters should still be able to do some sort of damage to the flagships.
Now please bear in mind, that stuff that works on fighters of a very small mass, is also scalable up to a certain size, where the targets are still too small for being hit by missiles and the thrust is overall big enough to evade cannon fire. And that's why I want to theorycraft on a small fighter first: I want to see if it could work in a small mass scenario, and then use that knowledge for bigger sized battles that involve like four fighters shooting down each other in a very small amount of time like less than 3 minutes accompanied by like one flagship on each side.
# My last question is about embedding a good fighter design into slightly larger battles of 5vs5 where 4 ships on each side are fighters, and one is a flagship of 10 times the fighters mass.
Introducing Story
3 days ago, I tried to make a dogfight vs another player on Genxova just for fun, and we weren't able to get our shields down at all. I thought: hey his fighter is pretty strong amoured and maybe just as drone purpose in a fight vs bigger ships as company. He didn't build his fighter around the purpose being a threat to other small sized vessels, but to attack bigger targets. Basically it was wrapped into adv. armor and had some decent shields.
"Thx god the fighters I build are suitable for 1vs1 pvp fights, too bad we didn't use mine but his." Was my thought. I was wronged very hard on this one.
So some time ago I made fighter, name FGT Colonial Viper, and it is my interpretation of the Battlestar Galactica one's.
The systems are gutted so the specs are not the real ones!
The actual fight scenario vs AI
Then, yesterday, the server was lagging me out again, and so I tried a 1vs1 vs my own pirate controlled fighter, thinking "Hey my fighter has pretty small shields and I only used basic hull, it should be interesting."
It came to my attention, that I neither of us was able to defeat the other, and the fight was just as frustrating as the one on Genxova.
Colonial Fighter's original systems:
100mass;only basic hull; cc with 36 total size; 2k shields with 99 regen; max possible thrust (225); 2 missile-beam 3x3; around 3k power recharge
So I remade the fighter entirely and changed all of its systems; power first to achieve the maximum of power possible first (now that I learned first if you design a pvp fighter: its overall force is all about the power it regenerates).
New specs:
only basic hull, some hull parts replaced with systems; cc with 66 total size; 500 shields with 20 regen; 160 speed; around 8k power recharge
The fight vs the pirate AI in this 1vs1 was able to defeat me this time.
Noticable design choices and mechanics
Things to notice on the new design:
-The AI still needed like 5 minutes to bring me into a defeatable position where I had a significant system loss of 30%. This means a human fighter would need even longer to defeat me, as the AI has a advantage in aiming (yes it is possible to spray the cc fire into movement direction and all that stuff, but even if a human is as good as the AI he still would take 5 minutes).
-The smart missiles never hit, or can get shoot down. This mean that even with 160 speed you are fast enough in this size of ship to evade a big chunk of projectiles.
-The shields were not one shot, it needed like 10 cc-bullets or 2 missile hits to bring them down.
-Targetting of certain ship parts was never possible, even when we only had 100m distance between each other.
My questions and the purpose of this thread
So why all this fuzz about some small fighter combat?
Here are my questions:
How can I design a small fighter, that it can defeat itsself in a 1vs1 within less than 5 minutes? The less time needed the better. Important here: The fighter should be inside a basic hull and not be some kind of "glass cannon" - visible system parts are not welcome and should only be visible in rare spots, and very slow fighters of 10m/s that shoot 5 smart missiles once are a no go as well. And the human fighters are smart and not very dumb.
How would you design a small fighter, that can defeat many other small fighter designs in a 1vs1 within less than 3 minutes of dogfighting?
Can we design fighters, that are actually fun to fight with in a 5vs5? Where 4 vessels on each side are fighters, and one vessel is some kind of flagship with 10 times the fighters mass. The thing is: the small fighters should still be able to do some sort of damage to the flagships.
Now please bear in mind, that stuff that works on fighters of a very small mass, is also scalable up to a certain size, where the targets are still too small for being hit by missiles and the thrust is overall big enough to evade cannon fire. And that's why I want to theorycraft on a small fighter first: I want to see if it could work in a small mass scenario, and then use that knowledge for bigger sized battles that involve like four fighters shooting down each other in a very small amount of time like less than 3 minutes accompanied by like one flagship on each side.
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