Artificial Horizon and other stabalization needs

[lazarus78]

Reposting this from the old site. I still think this is very important to consider implimenting.

NOTE: These are just ideas for features. How they are actually implemented is entirely open to discussion, and in no way reflect a final concept.

Space is very disorienting. This is a simple fact. With little to base our posistion on, it's easy to get turned around. Luckely, many many years of aviation has tought man how to mitigate this.

1. "Artificial Horizon". A ball of sorts that orients itself to show "up" and "down" as well as your rotation. This type of thing is intigral in flight sim games, as well as Kerbal Space Program, and even NASA. Starmade is no different.

http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/fxd_wing/images2/16.jpg


2. "Leveling out". Given that when you press C, it auto-orients your yaw, picth, and roll to "Galactic North", as I like to call it, it would be nice if it were possible to just level out WITHOUT orienting you to galactic north. A simple key to level out your pitch and roll, but not your yaw.

I mention this because of one simple frustration. Wanting to level out while facing something. I want to look at a planet and level out without having to worry about my ship flipping 180 because I'm facing away from galactic north. I just want to level out where I am facing.


3. "Lock axis". It would be nice to be able to lock rotation along a specific axis. IE: If I lock the Z axis for my ship, I can only turn left and right, but still move forward, backwards, up and down. In essence, your ship would act like a submarine. This will also prevent your ship from rolling slightly when making turns.


4. "Snap to axis". This option would allow you to snap your ships facing to a particular axis. IE, if I am looking downward at a planet and i snap to the Y axis, my ship will just rotate to now face along the Y axis. Same for the X and Z axis.

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Additions
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5. "Snap to target". Orient your ship to your target. Simple enough.

 

[arrowwolf2]

good idea

 

[CyberTao]

Well, Considering that Space has no defined "Up", I have to meh at this :x

The New planets wont be flat discs anymore, they will be a series of Pentagons (I forget what its called -w-) and I think there was mention of making Stations rotatable when you first place them (so that they line up with the plates of a planet).

The Idea of North was to help with the Generation of the universe :u and my opinion, Press C only helps slightly with Docking, and soon wont even be good for that!

I'm actually all for removing that function all together xD

The Horizon idea though, that is not so much needed, as it is used to align yourself to an artificial Horizon yes? The only way that would work is if you set it to detect and align to the nearest plate of the planet :u cause they dont really work in deep space, and Planets wont be flat forever.

I am all for relative-to-galactic-North measures displayed (a small box you can close if you want) to help make lining up ships easier :u

 

[lazarus78]

That doesn't negate the need for such features. Sure space doesn't have a defined up or down, but humans do. Even NASA uses artifical horizons to align themselves when docking. The game needs some way to control orientation. Space not having an up or down doesnt negate the need for a logical up or down so that we as humans can orient ourselves to the environment.

In the movie, Ender's Game, they make a point of saying that space is relative, so Ender orients his view of the battles so it appears that he is descending upon the enemy. This logical representation has no actual baring on the battle itself, but the perceived change to a human has a dramatic effect in understanding and processing what is taking place.

Years of aviation has taught us that our orientation relative to our target is vital. Starmade is no different in this regard.

 

[CyberTao]

Relative relation is Good yes, but you dont -Need- all these fancy dohickys to do it :u Sure it'd be Noob friendly but you can already align to a common point easily.

And given Starmade's sectors, its hard to make it so you come in from a specific angle, as you cannot see their ships until you get to them, and if they move faster, then your behind them for example :p

The idea of Coming from above/below/behind is they are not prepared, that is a tactical move :u (Movie reference was pointless btw) and adding all these things doesnt really add to that -w-

I dunno, it just sounds like a Bunch of Docking features to me (And I actually have flown in formation in starmade, quite easily. You just have to organize)

 

[lazarus78]

I was trying to illustrate why being able to orient your logical view of space is important, but I guess that was lost.

At the very least, an artificial Horizon is needed. The rest, sure its not absolutely needed, but since the mechanic of snaping to an axis, in this case "Galactic North" when you press C, the rest is just an extension of that functionality.

Personally I find not being able to level out to be aggravating. Whenever I stop somewhere, I want to level out, but being forced to rotate to "Galactic North" when I press C just makes this even worse. When I turn and my ship tilts ever so slightly to the left or right, I want to punch a baby cus I cant level out again without snapping back to "Galactic North".

Call it unnecessary dohickies all you want, but these are optional additions that would make the game better for me, and I am sure I am not alone. Nothing would force you to use them, so fly as you will like normal.

 

[CyberTao]

True, I guess the Problem is that they will have to take up screen space :u and Galactic North isnt always constant in the current Build (Void and star systems seem to be opposite) plus I dunno how well it would interact with Planet/Sector Rotation.

And unless you built the station/base alligned with North (which is often annoying cause of orientations), you dont need to Hit C, just try to align 1 axis at a time (can use Left Crtl + moving mouse left/right to adjust roll) to line it up.

Would be a useful tool :p but not all that well Needed. Maybe Beta or a Mod? Theres a few ideas along the same lines as this that would fit well into a "realistic" Modpack might be fun for a RP/HC server

 

[lazarus78]

From my experience, Galactic North is always along the positive X axis regardless of system.

Screen space is limited, or not even required. The functions can be kept on a toggleable interface, or only mentioned in the controls menu.

using the Ctrl mode to rotate is not percise, and not being able to to snap perfectly to an axis is what irritates me. I want to be leveled out, not "almost". I want a way to 100% prevent my ship from tilting when I turn. These are simple functions that even REAL spaceships can do.

 

[ltmauve]

Shouldn't the "Snap to axis" option work with a selected target. i.e. I need to be facing down to dock, so I select the ship, face about down, and then hit "v" or whatever the key is. Then I am aligned with the target ship's y axis

 

[CyberTao]

Well we dont have -REAL- Spaceships :u and it would ruin the fun if we kept adding features cause they would make it realistic.
And Line up in a Void sector, float into a star sector without turning and Hit C again, last time I did that it flipped me randomly.

Cird has told me many times that humans make mistakes, and its unrealistic to expect everything to be precise and whatnot :/ It would be nice for those so OCD about it, but for most it would be extra functions that wouldnt be used often.

 

[lazarus78]

Well we dont have -REAL- Spaceships :u and it would ruin the fun if we kept adding features cause they would make it realistic.
And Line up in a Void sector, float into a star sector without turning and Hit C again, last time I did that it flipped me randomly.

Cird has told me many times that humans make mistakes, and its unrealistic to expect everything to be precise and whatnot :/ It would be nice for those so OCD about it, but for most it would be extra functions that wouldnt be used often.

But this game is replicating space, to an extent, and the ability to manipulate our orientation is still important. I'm not calling for realism, I'm calling for being able to control what we have.

I know humans are not perfect, but that doesn't negate my desire to level out and have control on how my ship is oriented.

Shouldn't the "Snap to axis" option work with a selected target. i.e. I need to be facing down to dock, so I select the ship, face about down, and then hit "v" or whatever the key is. Then I am aligned with the target ship's y axis

My idea was that you can snap to an axis or lock your view on to your target, not an axis.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

Artificial horizon could be nice, maybe as a part of minimap.

The rest - all of these aligning options - i don't need them. That doesn't mean i don't see why other players might want them, but implementing these features because "i want my ship perfectly straight in various orientations"? C'mon...

Maybe it could be all combined that when pressing "c" the game would align ship to the nearest axis (x, y, z). So if i would be looking 30 degrees left from y axis, then after pressing "c" the ship would be orientated like y axis. Similar with tilting.
So we could perfectly align our ship in 6 directions, 4 orientations each.
It could be extended with ability to align the ship with entity which we're locked on, so axis-es of both entities would be parallel.

I don't think we would ever need more options than that.

 

[Doomerzzz]

^ I agree, it would be much simpler to just snap to the nearest axis that you are facing to and also the tilting, I would be using it constantly because is just frustrating how many times you could just lose your orientation, I rather approach an object upright rather than upside down or tilted to some random direction.. usually can be corrected to an acceptable angle but would be much easier if we could align with a single button..

 

[lazarus78]

These are just features I would like, how they get implemented is up in the air. Snapping to neirest axis is a good idea, I can settle for that.

 

[ltmauve]

My idea was that you can snap to an axis or lock your view on to your target, not an axis.

Mine was that #4 now aligns to the closest axis of your selected target (if you have one), and #5 is still point the ship at your target. Relative orientation is more important than absolute orientation when it comes to docking maneuvers.
Also, suggested control scheme:
C-point at target (and roll to match lateral axes) (if none, use global forward)
V-align to closest target axis (if none, use global axes)
B-align target planes (Roll and pitch corrections only) (if none, use global "flat")
use shift-C, shift-V, or shift-B to do global aligns even when targeting something.

 

[lazarus78]

Mine was that #4 now aligns to the closest axis of your selected target (if you have one), and #5 is still point the ship at your target. Relative orientation is more important than absolute orientation when it comes to docking maneuvers.
Also, suggested control scheme:
C-point at target (and roll to match lateral axes) (if none, use global forward)
V-align to closest target axis (if none, use global axes)
B-align target planes (Roll and pitch corrections only) (if none, use global "flat")
use shift-C, shift-V, or shift-B to do global aligns even when targeting something.

I like that set-up.

 

[ToyotaSupra]

Frickin' great idea. This would be both visually impressive and functional too, so vote up for that. However, it would need to be frame skipped, just like real spacecraft/planes or else it would disorient again.

 

[Lecic]

Yes please for all of this.

 

[lazarus78]

Frickin' great idea. This would be both visually impressive and functional too, so vote up for that. However, it would need to be frame skipped, just like real spacecraft/planes or else it would disorient again.

Frame skipped?

 

[ToyotaSupra]

Frame skipped?

How do I explain this...(Can't find vid on YT) Instead of the reticule instantly updating with a fluid smooth movement, it skips a few 'frames' as if the computer is updating.

Actual planes do this with their HUDs, and if you've played BF3 the HUD on the planes skips the frames. I personally think this is less disorienting.