Armor Plates, Weapons, More Blocks and Components, and Balance

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    Okay, so you have your glorious 100 ton spaceship bristling with weapons and armor. The thing is, you have just two choices of armor - meter-thick tissue paper or meter-thick cardboard. Both have considerable mass and provide relatively minimal protection. While they look shiny and are available in a variety of colors, they are entirely inadequate in terms of defense and will be blasted through by anyone armed with more than a peashooter.

    So, where does that leave us? We have thick, unwieldy blocks of armor that provide minimal protection. What might we do about this, you ask.

    Hulls, Plates, and Armor

    The first portion of the solution would be to add in more types of armor and hull pieces with varying characteristics. If you can only afford a basic frame for your ship (providing minimal protection but extremely light and cheap), then you have that option. If you have slightly more money, you might coat that frame in a layer of light armor. With yet more, you would build that armor out of the current hull blocks. Moving up the scale, you would have tiers of hull blocks going in several directions: low mass, high protection, and a balance of both mass and protection. If you're making a dedicated fighter, you might want some kind of fancy, lightweight carbon-fiber frame. This would give decent protection, have very low mass, but probably be prohibitively expensive for new players. Now, if you have a capital ship and want actually effective armor you might want to go in the other direction - an ultradense, ultratough composite of depleted uranium, handwavium, and insanium. Very, very heavy and very, very, good at taking damage.

    But what if I can't afford a capital ship made of the toughest blocks in the game, you may ask.

    Simple! Have half-blocks. And maybe quarter-blocks. Maybe even sixteenth-blocks. Constructing your ship out of a light, cheap frame with a thin plating of armor would save considerably on credits and mass at the cost of reduced protection. And really, it doesn't make much sense for a twenty meter long mining ship to be covered in meter-thick armored hull blocks.

    Anyway, this would allow you to build cheaper, lighter ships while still looking cool with the fancy new hull plating and giving your otherwise naked components some degree of protection without compromising speed or maneuverability.

    Cheap, light frames would also allow skeletons of ships to be built for evaluation and testing during the design phase for minimal cost.

    Balance to the Above

    But antimatter cannons only destroy one block at a time! If you stacked dozens of thin plates together it would be OP!

    So change the cannons. Add penetration. If they destroy one block they pass on part of any residual damage to the next block, perhaps creating an expanding cone of damage or creating a crater as they do so. This would make large-scale capital ship weapons far more effective against armor, which brings us to the next point.

    Balancing Weapons and Defenses

    Right. So you have a pair of gigantic, 2400-damage antimatter cannons as main guns. You shoot an unshielded ship with these things and what happens? A single block with 100 HP is sacrificed to stop your shot. Of course, you have a couple dozen shots coming right behind the first one because of the current system of an increasing rate of fire on progressively larger guns.

    Now even in the current system, this is unbalanced and illogical. Generally speaking, larger guns fire higher-caliber, more powerful projectiles that take longer to reload or recharge. This would mean that a large, 800 block gun should fire more slowly and do more damage than a 2-block long noob gun.

    So, we have half of it right. Yes, they do more damage. But they also fire faster. Now, common sense tells us that in the vast majority of cases this is incorrect. Realistically speaking, very powerful weapons have higher projectile mass and/or energy cost, higher recoil, release more heat during firing, and are generally incapable of sustained bombardment for any real length of time.

    Now if we have the mechanic mentioned above allowing for splash damage and overpenetration, there is a way to easily balance antimatter cannons of all sizes and shapes.

    Your 2400-damage gun would fire quite slowly but obliterate large sections of whatever it hit or penetrate deep into the hull of the target depending on the specific settings and layout of the weapon. A 2-block fighter weapon and/or noob gun would have a very high rate of fire but do a tiny amount of damage per shot. In a real engagement, this would mean that a capital ship fight would comprise of slow-firing salvoes with each shot capable of blowing apart vast chunks of armor or simply piercing right through the opposing ship. On a smaller scale, smaller weapons would be blasting away at a high rate of fire, sandpapering the opponent's armor into oblivion with sustained shooting.

    "But this is OP! It would make armor even more useless!"

    That's why I talked about modifying the armor mechanics earlier. You'd have different tiers of armor, both worse but mostly better than what we have now. You would also have the ability to craft all of these with the necessary materials and also create or buy plates of different thicknesses thinner than your average block. What this would do would be to allow those who can't afford heavy armor in terms of weight or cost would have an option besides leaving their core components exposed. There would also be extremely expensive and effective armor plating for all needs, allowing capital ships to have far tougher and heavier armor than a smaller ship, with high-end fighters having lightweight but still tough armor that allows them to keep their maneuverability and speed advantages. Larger ships would be able to support heavier armor due to the increased volume available for engines due to their size.

    "But this is so OP! You can make 5 million credits in 10 minutes and buy 89124898wtfbbq of the best armor in the game! You could just spawn in your capital ships if you had the money and there would be an infinite amount of the best blocks in the game!"

    Well, that brings us to our next topic.

    Ship Construction

    Right now, ship construction is as follows:

    Buy parts for ship

    Build ship

    Fly ship

    Save ship as blueprint

    Go somewhere else/lose ship

    Buy same ship from catalog, literally made out of credits



    ...Well this is obviously unbalanced because it lets you farm otherwise unavaliable materials. This would be doubly true with the introduction of rarer, better, more expensive parts. However, there is a pretty easy solution.

    Require you to have the parts necessary for the construction of the ship on hand. The necessary components would be listed in the catalog.

    And there you go, no more duplicating materials out of pure money. As bonus points, it'd stop those dickheads from spawning 9001 battlestar galactica derpships in 2,2,2 to lag the server and make them have to go buy or produce the materials first.

    Random Other Stuff Like More Components and Manufacturing

    So we have engines. We have antimatter cannons. We have missiles. We have shield generators. All of these are garden-variety components that can be bought at your friendly neighborhood shop for a fixed price. You can even make them in a factory if you want to.

    Okay, toss that out the window. One type of each block is boring, unimaginative, and stifles creativity, functionality, and gameplay mechanics. If we had more, what would they be like?

    Well, let's think about it. If we had, say, different varieties of engines, we would be able to further specialize our designs. You might choose TurboAntimatterInsaniUnobtanium, high powered, energy-hungry drives for a fighter or efficient but low-powered thrusters for mining ships. A larger ship may even have multiple kinds of engines: general-purpose, tough, efficient engines for normal use but powerful, energy-devouring auxiliary boosters for combat use.

    Moving on to shields, we can have the same thing. The garden-variety, fast-recharge shields we already have access to, or stronger but much slower-recharging examples for another specialization. Of course, there should be more than two types to account for different play styles and specializations.

    With weapons, we already see a little of this with the ability to tweak range, damage, fire rate, etc. But we can have more. Pulse guns. Beam cannons. Lasers. Miniguns. Etc.

    Each would have their own balance of minimum effective size, rate of fire, range, damage, projectile speed, and accuracy. Yes, accuracy. We need that. Some have said that certain classes of weapons should have a hard limit, but I disagree. If people want to build a capital-class minigun then so be it. The short range and low individual damage would cause it to have difficulty with heavily-armored targets, but far more effective against lighter, faster ships due to its ridiculous rate of fire.

    Going on to missiles, it would probably be wise to overhaul that system completely. Creating different configurations of missile launchers and separate reloading mechanisms and magazines would allow for different rates of fire and a system of modular launchers firing different types of missiles. Of course, these parts and missiles would all have variations and improved versions like the other parts mentioned.

    Now, energy generation. At the moment we have the funky structure-sensitive.... things that, let's face it, are okay. Let's look at some other possibilities.

    • High-Powered Energy Reactor - Very high energy density, therefore useful for smaller craft. Benefits from as many neighboring connections to additional HP reactors as possible, but can actually become unstable in large, connected numbers. This instability can be conquered by either having multiple small reactors or fewer, larger builds with specialized cooling systems.
    • Low-Energy Block Reactor - Less powerful than our current reactor but benefits from being in cubes instead of weird-ass tetris things. Becomes more efficient in larger connected numbers and thus encourages the use of single, large power cores.

    And so on and so forth. These different types would not be all by themselves, though. Like armor, different tiers could be bought or crafted with the best only available by manufacturing.

    Now, what are the advantages of this system?

    First of all, it would mean that a 200,000 mass death star would (a) be far harder to build and (b) not be invulnerable to higher-end but smaller ships. It would also allow for more creativity, more specialized designs, and prevent certain people from lagging servers with random ship spam. Further, it would make people have to think more when they build larger ships and also greatly increase the cost of making an effective capital ship. To make the best ships and components possible, one would have to have a dedicated manufacturing facility to build the necessary parts, as well as the resources necessary to feed it.

    All in all, you get a more fleshed-out and interesting environment with more freedom of creativity and far more interesting ship design and combat.

    This is not to say that noobs would be hopelessly lost and ineffective in combat. Creating a ship out of simple, standard-issue parts in the beginning would still be viable. One might even choose to stick with such cheap parts due to their low cost and, with friends, decide to zerg-rush enemies with much better equipment. Also, this system would not only be available to veteran players. A noob could still choose between the new varieties of parts, just not have access to the very best in the beginning. For that, one would have to work for.



    Anyway, comments? Constructive criticism? Both are, of course, welcome.
     
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    I read all and even if I agree with most of the things I don\'t agree with weapons firing slowly I mean even if your weapon is very powerful if it fires slowly it won\'t kill nothing because of the shield regen. The current system may be not balanced but it\'s needed.

    Concerning small ships, even if they\'re upgraded, they must have no chance against a capital ship.
     
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    I read through this fully and I could not agree more about the need for Different types of tiered armor and weapons - the greatest asset of a game like minecraft or starmade is the ability of players to display their individual creativity and style. Also the more options available in game = a much larger challenge in balancing a ship and making it as effective as possible
     
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    Okay, so shields could recharge more slowly. And what do you mean, smaller ships must not stand a chance against capital ships? Historically, battleships have been crippled and destroyed by smaller ships or aircraft working in concert. Just because you put a lot of effort into making a big ship and failed to account for the reality of smaller ones attacking you does not mean that your ship should be invulnerable.
     
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    In regards to shields, I would like to see multiple sets of shields for a ship. For example, you are fleeing combat and take multiple shots to the back end of your ship, so your rear shields would begin to fail but your front, side, and maybe even top/bottom shields are intact. Taking it one more step, have a system in place similar to the weapons config and adjust the power output to focus on the rear shields since that is where you are taking fire. That would be very useful in a variety of situations other than just fleeing as well. Capital ships could reinforce one side of their shields and fire broadside cannons (assuming that also gets changed). I\'d also like to see the ability to manage power output in general. Focus on shields but lower thrust, or focus on thrust and shields but shut off power to weapons, etc... Maybe all this has been suggested before, but I didn\'t see it in this thread so I figured I would chime in.
     
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    i agree with ALL of this, this is brilliantly thought out and well explained. as for ne3zy\'s comment, a large gun would still have MASSIVE dps outputs, its just changed into a high damage low RoF setting (for example 10x damage multiplier and a 0.1x RoF multiplier) and should not have a problem oblitterating shields aslong as you can hit the enemy vessel. having a dense armor block with 2000 hp 75 armor but a mass of 1 would be brilliant for capital ships while also making capitals much slower to accalerate due to the high weigth of the armor.
     
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    Another thing that would balance the weapon mechanics is to have different lengths (or some other aspect) of weapons effect how far their range is. As it is the anti-matter cannons can launch an attack from 50 kilometers away or 100 kilometers away without it effecting damage output of the attack. If this were changed and longer weapons (or some other aspect) had higher range and damage output at that range, but lower damage at short range and slower attack speed it would limit overuse of certain weapons. Not to mention they could add long range missiles (just an idea).
     
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    but I still think we need huge power sucking hyper-drive engines for long distance travel, or possibly a quick escape.

    Adding a block (or group of blocks) that generates huge amounts of power but consumes resources could power shields or hyperdrive, but wouldn\'t be overpowered due to the difficulty of getting the required fuel.
     
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    Whoops, my shield diagram broke.

    Oh well, edited that and the explanation is now in boring old words.
     
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    Yeah, barrel length should affect range and damage falloff would probably be a good idea.



    @ Yotarian, it would be an interesting thing to have. Perhaps there could be different types of generators specialized for full-ship protection or focused area shielding? Here are some hypothetical pros and cons for each type.

    Full-ship shielding like the current shield dispersers

    Pros

    • Fast recharge rate
    • Useful if focused area shielding fails?
    • Protects the whole ship
    • More difficult to disable completely

    Cons

    • Renders the whole ship vulnerable if brought offline
    • Weaker per block than focused shielding
    • Longer downtime if disrupted?
    • Cannot be reinforced in certain areas

    Focused Area Shielding

    Pros

    • Useful for defending certain areas
    • Stronger over the area in question due to covering less area per block
    • Only renders parts of the ship vulnerable if disrupted or destroyed
    • Quicker restart time than other shielding
    • Allows power to be drawn from other areas of shielding to boost portions of it instead of brute-forcing to reinforce the entire shield. This allows greater tactical flexibility and reduced power drain in such situations.

    Cons

    • Slower recharge rate when online
    • Requires more blocks for complete coverage of larger ships, but provides better defenses overall
    • Lower HP, thus easier to destroy if shields are disrupted
    • If the shielding over a single block is broken, that block will become vulnerable until the shield recharges. This will make large, slow firing guns more useful against tough opponents but would still allow machine gun-style fighter weapons to be effective.
    • More expensive? Masses more?



    This assumes that power can be redistributed, something which I fully support.

    It would also be nice to choose the area of effect of focused shielding. If you want fifty small generators protecting the 100 meter flank of your ship, then that should be possible. If you have the space, cash, and power supply available it should be possible to create a fancy overlapping shield system with the higher-tier shield blocks. Lower-tier ones would not allow overlapping defense zones and would simply stop upon contacting other shield areas.

    On entry-level shields, two generators with overlapping AoEs would simply create an uninterrupted screen with no bonuses to any blocks. If a generator covered a 5x5 area, any generators with overlapping areas would simply have their shields stop upon encountering another AoE. All blocks would be covered, but efficiency would be lost.

    With higher-tech systems, overlapping shield AoEs would actually provide a bonus, combining the power of both generators to provide a reinforced area of shielding. There may be a five or ten percent loss in efficiency for balance reasons.

    Here\'s an example. For the sake of argument, each generator has a total shield power of 10,000. This is then divided over the 5x5 area they happen to be covering. This gives each area a coverage of 400 on any given block. In the overlapping area, this would mean that without penalty, that 1x5 strip would have a defensive power of 800. For balance\'s sake a small penalty may be imposed which would make it closer to 760 or 720.



    Other stuff:

    Regarding high dps, low RoF cannons, they might look something like this:

    Right. One cannon firing 600 damage shots at around 500 rounds per minute. That\'s about standard for the weapon class and gives a dps of 5,000. That\'s pretty much how the standard system works.

    So, let\'s say we divide that rate of fire by five, getting us 100 rounds per minute. To get the same DPS, we would need to multiply the individual shot damage by the same number which would give us a damage value of 2,400 in an AoE. Say what you will, but that is a pretty damn powerful gun and would be incredibly useful at shieldbreaking with the system outlined above as well as of course punching very large holes into the enemy.

    Of course, with the current flimsy nature of the blocks this needs some serious balancing, and that is where the new armor system outlined in the OP comes in. See that for details.
     
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    So your saying a single 500 block ship should be able to kill a 300.000 block one ? lol ?
     
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    Just wanted to chime in and say that I like the ideas in the OP.

    On the topic of armor plates, in addtion to flat half/quarter-sized blocks, it might also be nice to have them in wedge shape for those that want to add an extra form factor to their ships. Half/quarter-sized flat and wedge blocks in general would be nice (for creating properly ascendable stairs and ramps that aren\'t so steep).