Armor is stronger than shields

    Joined
    Jun 12, 2015
    Messages
    228
    Reaction score
    72
    Something I've noticed: A ship with just 2 layers of advanced armor can take quite a pounding, I think that shields are mainly just a defensive layer, Don't take them too seriously because if you do they'll get knocked down and you will die
     
    D

    Deleted member 433088

    Guest
    While I haven't tried my hand at combat much yet, and am not really much of a PvP guy, I want to point out that, from my knowledge, it's a lot cheaper to recover shields (they just regenerate) than armor, which can only be repaired at a shop for credits. Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
    Joined
    May 19, 2015
    Messages
    267
    Reaction score
    19
    • Purchased!
    Yes and no. Shields are easy. They affect the whole ship, and you can just slam down blocks of them inside your ship and they will work.

    Armor is based entirely on your ship design. In a way it fits the theme of starmade better than the blanket protection shields have. However, you can target one area on a ship with armor, and after it's gone, it's gone. You can't just drill through a single area with shields, and a ton of shielding will help you whatever block happens to be hit.

    Plus if you start losing armor, repair wise, you're screwed. You may as well scrap your ship entirely and fill up a new blueprint, because there is no other way to repair it. Shields are much better unless you are willing to carefully design your ship to prevent someone from just getting through and killing your systems, and they are far cheaper and easier both to build in the first place and to repair later.

    Armor tanking is better than shield tanking, especially since most pvpers are used to the mechanics in which shields are the only effective way to go, but it is way more work and not really worth it most of the time.
     
    Joined
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages
    923
    Reaction score
    292
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Purchased!
    • Thinking Positive
    If you are talking about a relatively small ship going up against standard pirates, then yes, good armor can certainly do the job of taking the punishment. If you are however talking about ships in the 50K mass range and up, armor will stand up to fire for maybe a few seconds. Shoot, my 'mining' ship walks around able to put 100 seeker warheads into space every fifteen seconds, each of which does in excess of 2500 block damage (plus 4000+ ion shield damage). That is enough to punch gaping holes in advanced armor, even when the armor HP pool is full! Of course, if you've put the full 10% punch defensive effect and 10% pierce defensive effect into your ship, the armor will hold up to a few of those hits, but you've now allocated much the same weight as someone who had powerful shields, and there are a 'lot' of those warheads incoming...
     

    Edymnion

    Carebear Extraordinaire!
    Joined
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages
    2,709
    Reaction score
    1,512
    • Purchased!
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    • Legacy Citizen 5
    Yeah, big ships have big guns, and any armor short of a dozen layers thick isn't really going to do jack to stop them from just tearing you up.
     
    Joined
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages
    10
    Reaction score
    1
    I'd like to see a system where armor gets buffed like power capacitors. Big ships have armor that is on par with big ship guns, and little ships have armor that doesn't negate little ship guns. Other than that I'd like to see the base health value on all armor boosted, because heavy armor IS HEAVY AND REQUIRES HALF YOUR FIGHTER TO BE THRUSTERS TO PUSH HIGH ACCELERATION. This is because ships tend to gain inside room much faster than they gain surface area, making fighters take the heaviest hits from the thruster system. Because of this, I'd like to see the thruster curve steepened, to buff fighters more and nerf large ships more.
     
    Joined
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages
    23
    Reaction score
    0
    • Legacy Citizen 3
    I'd like to see a system where armor gets buffed like power capacitors. Big ships have armor that is on par with big ship guns, and little ships have armor that doesn't negate little ship guns. Other than that I'd like to see the base health value on all armor boosted, because heavy armor IS HEAVY AND REQUIRES HALF YOUR FIGHTER TO BE THRUSTERS TO PUSH HIGH ACCELERATION. This is because ships tend to gain inside room much faster than they gain surface area, making fighters take the heaviest hits from the thruster system. Because of this, I'd like to see the thruster curve steepened, to buff fighters more and nerf large ships more.
    I had a similar conversation in another thread, the point is that a fighter isn't going to be heavily armoured because it's speed is its defence. And if you want to armour a fighter then you need to pay the price in thrust.
     
    Joined
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages
    10
    Reaction score
    1
    I had a similar conversation in another thread, the point is that a fighter isn't going to be heavily armoured because it's speed is its defence. And if you want to armour a fighter then you need to pay the price in thrust.
    I'm talking basic hull requires half your fighter to be thrusters though. Even if you put 9 advanced armor blocks around the computers or something, it makes a huge difference.
     
    Joined
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages
    23
    Reaction score
    0
    • Legacy Citizen 3
    I'm talking basic hull requires half your fighter to be thrusters though. Even if you put 9 advanced armor blocks around the computers or something, it makes a huge difference.
    Interesting. I typically build few smaller craft and most of those are drones.

    What thrust/mass ratio do you normally aim for? I typically accept 1:1 and it doesn't seem to take quite so much thrust, though it's been some time since I needed to make a fighter.
     
    Joined
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages
    10
    Reaction score
    1
    I have a 700 mass ship, in order to get 1:1 thrust to mass I had to make the entire back half thrusters. I'd say it was about 200 thruster blocks. Hull is so heavy man.
     
    Joined
    Apr 21, 2013
    Messages
    1,714
    Reaction score
    650
    • Top Forum Contributor
    • Legacy Citizen 3
    • Councillor Gold
    I have a 700 mass ship, in order to get 1:1 thrust to mass I had to make the entire back half thrusters. I'd say it was about 200 thruster blocks. Hull is so heavy man.
    Thats like 30 mass lol
     
    Joined
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages
    23
    Reaction score
    0
    • Legacy Citizen 3
    Thats like 30 mass lol
    Yeeaaah. I get the feeling that TheMegiddo is less concerned about mass and more about ratio of blocks. I can sympathize too, the extra blocks required affect the way the ship flies and changes it's center of mass. Not to mention that if you don't build with the extra blocks accounted for then it can royally screw up your design or force you to change things you otherwise would not want to.

    I don't necessarily consider this a serious issue though, I think now it takes a little more forethought to get an effective design which I relish seeing as how coming up with effective hull designs is all I spend my time doing. Although I can see how people who just want a functional ship without spending 6 weeks mucking about with it would be ticked off.
     

    Keptick

    Building masochist
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages
    4,062
    Reaction score
    1,841
    • Councillor 2 Gold
    • Railman Gold
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    My 500 million shields laugh at your punny armor.

    Ps: Don't armor tank a fighter, you lose the only advantage; speed.
     
    Joined
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages
    530
    Reaction score
    348
    • Legacy Citizen 8
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    Honestly, a large enough ship ought to be able to sport both effective shielding and armor. You use shields to protect everything from small arms fire, armor to protect some of the most important things and possibly most of the ship from certain angles when shields are lost.

    They behave differently under fire from different effect systems and weapons as well: Missiles apparently do 100% normal damage to shields, and 50% to hull/armor (to simulate an undirected detonation on a flat surface; 50% of the energy would radiate out away from the point of impact. I haven't tested that aspect too thoroughly, though.) So a shield-only setup will be taking heavier hits from missiles. Armor blocks also absorb missile damage fairly well: I've tested a big 10m thick block of advanced armor versus a several-million damage nuke missile. The depth of penetration into the armor block while armor hitpoints remain was 3m eliminated, with the fourth damaged. Once hit point pool was drained, it still took two shots to penetrate to the systems behind it. Then once penetration was achieved, however, system blocks behind the breach (at the diameter of the breach in the lowest armor layer) were destroyed, back through the full 50m of the depth tested. There was a tapering effect where every 10 meters or so the diameter was reduced by 2, but it was surprisingly destructive. If you don't have that armor to absorb the first shots, those first missile hits will take you out of the game by chewing up enormous quantities of important internal components.

    However, armor doesn't do so well against cannons or beams, because they use punch and pierce effects natively. A cannon/beam the size of that missile array only has to go through 10 or so armor blocks before spending the remainder of its penetration depth taking out systems. A beam, actually, ignores the armor entirely in affecting the blocks behind, because the pierce effect damages all blocks in the line per a set amount of damage, regardless of whether any of them were actually destroyed. But a large beam array, even if it can't destroy your armor, might still cough up the 50hp or whatever necessary to take out the systems behind the armor. The total damage per shot is a lot lower than from a missile, but it nonetheless immediately goes towards eliminating internal components and your structure hitpoints.

    Both cannons and beams, however, lose that advantage while the shields are still up. They instead pour their damage into the shield pool until it is drained.
     
    Joined
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages
    136
    Reaction score
    25
    • Purchased!
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Legacy Citizen 2
    I thought beams don't pierce if they hit hull or armor with armor hp still left in the pool.

    Did you test it or is that assumed due to natural pierce effect?
     

    AtraUnam

    Maiden of crashes
    Joined
    Oct 15, 2013
    Messages
    1,121
    Reaction score
    869
    • Railman Gold
    • Competition Winner - Small Fleets
    • Wired for Logic Gold
    My 500 million shields laugh at your punny armor.

    Ps: Don't armor tank a fighter, you lose the only advantage; speed.
    My personal armor system laughs at your shields ability to only take 500 million damage in one go.
     

    Keptick

    Building masochist
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages
    4,062
    Reaction score
    1,841
    • Councillor 2 Gold
    • Railman Gold
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    My personal armor system laughs at your shields ability to only take 500 million damage in one go.
    My shields laugh at the fact that your armor can't be used more than once, that it doesn't cover turrets, and that it's pretty useless on something that has 500 million shields on anything other than the front considering that if something busts 500mil shielding the armor won't make much of a difference.

    Joking aside armor is pretty useful to mitigate missile damage.
     

    Lecic

    Convicted Lancake Abuser
    Joined
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages
    5,115
    Reaction score
    1,229
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 11
    Armor doesn't protect turrets.
     

    MrFURB

    Madman of the Girders
    Joined
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages
    1,116
    Reaction score
    413
    Ah, but see, what if my turrets are my armor?