Read by Council Another Titan/Fighter Balance Thread

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    Here is another idea for big/little ship balance. What if electronic modules (computers, weapons, thrusters, and effect modules) exploded when destroyed?

    Think about how you design your ships. Game mechanics encourage larger clusters of connected modules. Now imagine that one of the modules is hit by blaster fire and has a 50% chance of exploding and damaging the modules next to it which also have a 50% chance of exploding. Chain reaction, right?

    Now think about how this would affect a titan, and then how it would affect a fighter. Imagine one of the computers on the bridge explodes and damages nearby computers.

    Large groups of modules make your cannons faster and stronger, but they also present a weak spot in your ship's design. If a fighter can pierce your hull and shields and cause enough damage to your cannon modules then boom, a one-time large loss of hp, and as soon as the modules are exposed through hull, they become a much more inviting target.

    This would encourage large ship designs to separate their mega-clusters of modules (minimizing benefit from the number of modules), and invest more in anti-pierce effect hull placement (more mass per module). It would encourage pilots to focus fire on particular areas. Large ships would now have a weakness that scales with the size of the ship, which balances the benefits of larger guns.

    I assume that George Lucas had something like this in mind when he designed the Death Star.

    =====A bit on mechanics of this=====
    I don't think the explosion needs to happen immediately in a single tick or frame. That would probably cause some lag (like lots of missile impacts), but I don't know the technical details of this. Here is an alternative to the one-massive-explosion.
    Tick 1 - Module explodes. It damages nearby modules.
    Tick 2 - Nearby modules that are destroyed are put on a countdown to explosion. They still work until they actually explode.
    Tick 3 - When countdown reaches zero, the modules explode. They damage nearby modules.
    Tick 4 - Repeat Tick 2/3. The explosion grows in size over time, but is never more than 2 block larger than the smallest two dimensions of the module cluster.

    Also, a 50% chance of explosion might be too high. This would need some testing, and might vary by module type.

    Edit:
    =====Another Note on Mechanics (which I will mentioned in a post below)=====
    The chain reaction doesn't have to be infinite. I can see how a high chance, and large system, and infinite chain could make some people feel it is too big of a weakness. But each module type, in addition to having an "odds of exploding" variable can also have a "length of chain" and an "explosion power" variable.

    So lets say we have a shield module with "odds of exploding = 50" and "length of chain = 2" and "explosion power = 20"
    One module is destroyed by cannon fire. It rolls to see if it explodes. It does. It deals "20" damage to 3 neighbor blocks and tells them "chain length = 2". Two of those blocks were previously damaged, and with the new damage are now destroyed. They roll their odds to see if they explode. They both do. They deal "20" damage to a total of 8 nearby blocks and tell them "chain length = 1". Only 4 of these blocks were previously damaged enough to now be destroyed, but at this point the chain has run out and no more blocks explode.

    So the chain reaction can be limited to X steps, and is more effective when neighboring modules have already been damaged, and is highly dependent upon the shape of the system being damaged. Different module types can be more or less stable.
     
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    yeah,so far this is a BIG no-no sadly
    hahaha even a small percentage of blocks that do cause a chain reaction would be too much.
    have to see with other guys,so i dont wanna "reject" this yet,but I think the devs didnt change the oppinions on this recently
     

    Lecic

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    This would be a hilariously bad idea. The entire game would revolve around whichever ship could fire an armor cracking alpha cannon into the enemy's systems first.
     
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    kiraen , that thread isn't quite the same. They were suggesting that computers alone be the weak point, and that the destruction of one block have a larger impact upon structure HP than another block.

    I'm suggesting something a bit more complicated. The entire system becomes the weak point. Hitting one spot on a power reactor poses a threat to the entire reactor - so having many small (less efficient) reactors is better than one large (super efficient) one. Hitting one module on a cannon threatens the entire cannon - so many small canons is better than one large one.

    How much of a threat depends upon the odds of a module exploding and how the system itself is shaped. A cube (most efficient design) is the most at risk of chain-reactions, while a line (least efficient design) is least at risk of chain-reactions.

    Which is why, Lecic , I don't think it will come down to a race to cracking hull. It will change how ships are designed. It doesn't matter if your ship is the first to crack the hull if your enemy has a well designed redundancy system and you have a poorly designed glass cannon. It also matters which system you and your enemy are targeting.

    =====Another Note on Mechanics (which I will edit into the OP)=====
    The chain reaction doesn't have to be infinite. I can see how a high chance, and large system, and infinite chain could make some people feel it is too big of a weakness. But each module type, in addition to having an "odds of exploding" variable can also have a "length of chain" and an "explosion power" variable.

    So lets say we have a shield module with "odds of exploding = 50" and "length of chain = 2" and "explosion power = 20"
    One module is destroyed by cannon fire. It rolls to see if it explodes. It does. It deals "20" damage to 3 neighbor blocks and tells them "chain length = 2". Two of those blocks were previously damaged, and with the new damage are now destroyed. They roll their odds to see if they explode. They both do. They deal "20" damage to a total of 8 nearby blocks and tell them "chain length = 1". Only 4 of these blocks were previously damaged enough to now be destroyed, but at this point the chain has run out and no more blocks explode.

    So the chain reaction can be limited to X steps, and is more effective when neighboring modules have already been damaged, and is highly dependent upon the shape of the system being damaged. Different module types can be more or less stable.
     
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    kiraen , that thread isn't quite the same. They were suggesting that computers alone be the weak point, and that the destruction of one block have a larger impact upon structure HP than another block.

    I'm suggesting something a bit more complicated. The entire system becomes the weak point. Hitting one spot on a power reactor poses a threat to the entire reactor - so having many small (less efficient) reactors is better than one large (super efficient) one. Hitting one module on a cannon threatens the entire cannon - so many small canons is better than one large one.
    So hitting any block in the system can cripple the ship, not just the computer. Making for a bigger target.
    Which is actually worse considering the reasons the other suggestions was rejected.

    Schine has no plans to implement "computers" that control key ship systems like shield, thrust, or power in a way similar to weapons computers that, if destroyed, would cripple that particular system.
    Your suggestion is pretty much the same thing in essence, except that the entire ship would get crippled (which is even worse). So the answer is no, sorry.
     

    Lecic

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    kiraen , that thread isn't quite the same. They were suggesting that computers alone be the weak point, and that the destruction of one block have a larger impact upon structure HP than another block.

    I'm suggesting something a bit more complicated. The entire system becomes the weak point. Hitting one spot on a power reactor poses a threat to the entire reactor - so having many small (less efficient) reactors is better than one large (super efficient) one. Hitting one module on a cannon threatens the entire cannon - so many small canons is better than one large one.

    How much of a threat depends upon the odds of a module exploding and how the system itself is shaped. A cube (most efficient design) is the most at risk of chain-reactions, while a line (least efficient design) is least at risk of chain-reactions.

    Which is why, Lecic , I don't think it will come down to a race to cracking hull. It will change how ships are designed. It doesn't matter if your ship is the first to crack the hull if your enemy has a well designed redundancy system and you have a poorly designed glass cannon. It also matters which system you and your enemy are targeting.

    =====Another Note on Mechanics (which I will edit into the OP)=====
    The chain reaction doesn't have to be infinite. I can see how a high chance, and large system, and infinite chain could make some people feel it is too big of a weakness. But each module type, in addition to having an "odds of exploding" variable can also have a "length of chain" and an "explosion power" variable.

    So lets say we have a shield module with "odds of exploding = 50" and "length of chain = 2" and "explosion power = 20"
    One module is destroyed by cannon fire. It rolls to see if it explodes. It does. It deals "20" damage to 3 neighbor blocks and tells them "chain length = 2". Two of those blocks were previously damaged, and with the new damage are now destroyed. They roll their odds to see if they explode. They both do. They deal "20" damage to a total of 8 nearby blocks and tell them "chain length = 1". Only 4 of these blocks were previously damaged enough to now be destroyed, but at this point the chain has run out and no more blocks explode.

    So the chain reaction can be limited to X steps, and is more effective when neighboring modules have already been damaged, and is highly dependent upon the shape of the system being damaged. Different module types can be more or less stable.
    So, if there's a limited number of chains... it's basically the same as explosive effect? You do realize what you just described is literally just a weaker version of the explosive effect on cannons/beams, right?
     
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    So, if there's a limited number of chains... it's basically the same as explosive effect? You do realize what you just described is literally just a weaker version of the explosive effect on cannons/beams, right?
    I think it's funny that you and I never seem to agree on anything. : )

    No, it isn't explosion effect. I think that I might not be describing clearly what I am visualizing. So I made visuals.


    High chance, long chain:

    High chance, short chain:

    Low chance, long chain:

    The major difference between this and a typical explosion effect is that this effect isn't determined by the weapon fired, but by the block that has been hit. The explosion size, chain, and damage are determined by what you hit. It doesn't happen with hull because hull doesn't explode. Power generators are very unstable, so they might act like high-chance, long chain. Shield capacitors are stable, but still volatile - low chance, long chain. Other modules have higher or lower chances of exploding.

    The point is that the effectiveness of a ship is determined by the layout of the enemy ship and what areas are targeted. Making a big ship with large clusters (dps optimized ship) is more susceptible to these "critical hits" than a big ship with small clusters (not optimized) or a small ship with small clusters.
     
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    Lecic

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    Yeah, that still looks a lot like explosive effect.