An analysis of the relationship between planets, faction interactions and resource acquisition.

[Keptick]

This is an analysis of the current situation of faction interactions and general game economics, as well as a suggestion to fix to a LOT of issues that currently plague the game. This is a long one, but I strongly suggest that you read it. And yes, I know that the current game is incomplete, but I'd still like to get this out. Lets start with the facts:

Facts:

1. Planets are the best source of resources. They can provide many asteroids worth of resources with a single plate. Combined with the fact that they respawn (harvest one completely, kill it and reload the sector) this makes them the ideal source of resources for all factions and players out there.
2. Mining planets causes extreme server lag. (From personal experience, starting to mine a planet raises my ping, along with everyone else's, from 14 to a couple of hundreds on Elwyn Eternity, a very beefy server.)
3. Incentives for factions and/or players to interact are practically null. Why would I go fight this other faction when there's absolutely no benefit to do so? Especially when I risk loosing a ship that I worked very hard to produce?
4. Assumption: Mining is the equivalent to an MMO grind in that it is a very basic, repetitive and boring thing to do. Mining is NOT fun, a game should be played for fun.
5. Capturing and extending a territory has practically no use. Even an entire faction would have a hard time depleting the asteroid belts of an entire system before they respawn.
6. There is currently no fp penalty for loosing territory.

Conclusion from the above points:

Factions have absolutely no incentive to interact and combat due to the 100% loss of assets and no gain for any of the factions (except if they want to harvest the other faction's ships, which would just cause said faction to not show up at the next fight). Capturing more systems currently serves no purpose other than bragging rights as there is nothing to do with these extra systems. In addition, defending captured systems (that aren't the home system) serves no purpose since there is absolutely no penalty to loosing it. Simply waiting for the aggressor to leave and recapturing it with a 5 block outpost is the best way to go (which is very bad game-play-wise).

The solution below is something that I think would solve all this. However, even if it's rejected by the devs, the above points will still stand.

The solution™:

Notice: Please read this completely as it wouldn't work if a single point is missing. Do not argue or comment if you haven't read and understood every point and what they entail.

1. Make planets invulnerable against mining beams (impossible to mine).
2. Each planet in the universe has the same resource regeneration rate (in minutes or seconds, depending what's better for performance).
3. The base regeneration rate of a planet can be influenced (increased/decreased) by multiple factors:
   • The radius of a planet. A planet with greater radius has a higher regeneration rate.
   • The distance from the center of a galaxy. The center having the richest planets and the external systems having the poorest ones. For example, a 200m radius planet located at the center of the galaxy would have a greater regeneration rate than an identical planet located at the tip of a galactic arm.
   • (optional) The more planets in a system the richer they are. The reason I say this is optional is because, while not being essential, it would encourage people to fight over rich planetary systems even more.
   • (optional) Show the sovereignty of planets on the star map. This is just a quality of life feature and isn't essential.
4. (optional) Completely depleting a planet's resources before it can regenerate makes the planet blow up, so incorrectly setting up a deep core mining operation could have devastating consequences.

Ok, so that's the planetary part of things. Now, you might be asking: "what the hell is he on about". The juicy part comes next:

1. Implement a new block, called the "deep core miner". This block could be placed on planets and would essentially harvest (produce) minerals that are contained in the plate it's on. This could be linked to plex storages and would deposit the minerals there (just like mining beams). The materials being harvested aren't actually taken from the planet's blocks. As in, it doesn't actually mine the blocks out of a planet. Instead, it kinda poofs them into existence (more on that latter, for those concerned about realism).
2. The "deep core miner" would have a base harvest rate (per second or minute, as with planet regen rate). This rate could be increased with the use of harvest enhancers. Every enhancer block would add a set amount of "harvest speed" to the "deep core miner". However, don't forget that the planet has a resource regeneration speed. Having your harvest rate go over the regen rate would be a waste of extender blocks.
3. Each plate has it's own "deep core miner". Meaning that if you want to completely exploit a planet you need a "deep core miner" on every single plate. Quite some work to set up, but very rewarding.
4. The territory mining bonuses apply to the "deep core miner". Meaning that being in friendly territory grants a x12 (or whatever is set on the server) bonus to the materials harvested.
5. The miners must ABSOLUTELY keep on working even when the sector is unloaded.

Addressing concerns:

• Asteroids would become useless
  • not really. Asteroids are the only source of colored rock (such as larimar), which is required to make colored hull. Besides, it's not like a player could set up harvesters right off the bat. Some asteroid mining would be required to craft these harvesters. In addition, planetary mining is already much more time efficient than asteroid mining. Optional: Giving asteroids a higher ore density, or/and adjusting planetary regeneration rate could make it so that asteroids mining is a better resource acquisition method, time wise. "Deep core miners taking too long? Need those resources NOW? Go mine some roids'!"
• Infinite resources = really bad for economy
  • When you think about it, resources are already infinite. Planets DO respawn, providing an infinite source of easy to obtain minerals (even if they don't, moving to the next planet is simple enough). My suggestion would eliminate the server crippling lag, provide players with materials in a non-boring way (one would still need to set-up harvesters. Depending on their cost it might not be easy to do). More combat would also mean more resources disappearing, thus, balance is achieved.
• A single player could harvest multiple planets on his own, meaning that he'd have an extreme abundance of resources.
  • While this is true, remember that only the home base is invincible. If you don't like the fact that a player captured 15 solar systems then simply attack the planets and make them your own! First of all, a single person would never be able to defend a massive planetary array. Secondly, a player could never faction 15 systems because of the fp cost. So, while it would be possible for a single player to become insanely rich, it is extremely unlikely. Setting up harvesters dozens of planets alone would also be a massive undertaking. Remember, it is a lot harder to defend than to attack. If a player manages to defend 15 planets on his own then all powers to him, he deserves to keep them. Also don't forget that he'd have to go to each harvester one at a time to get the stuff they produced, just that alone would take a fairly big effort.

In conclusion:

While this may seem overly complicated at first it's actually a fairly simple system. The benefits is that factions would have a concrete incentive to expand and attack/defend their territory. Imagine an 8 planet system located close to the galactic core. Everyone and their mother would try to get their hands on it's planets to set up very profitable harvesters. In my opinion, having to fight over resources would revive the flame of factions in a very fun way! It's also much better than getting bored while lagging the server to death (aka: the current resource acquisition system). This could also bring players together. Factions could band up and defend their territory together (since planet plates are independent you could have multiple factions harvesting a single planet). It could also potentially pave the way for ground combat (since capturing stuff is easier than having to rebuild everything).


Thanks for reading this, if you have any comments or concerns that I didn't cover then please let me know so that I can demolish address them . Just kidding, if you have anything positive or negative to say don't be shy and say it ^_^ (as long as it's constructive, please).

Edit: changed the name from harvester to deep core miner. Credit goes to Crimson-Artist for the idea

Edit 2: Adding in Ithirahad 's suggestion http://starmadedock.net/threads/une...-and-density-getting-the-wheels-turning.6425/ would make things even better when combined with my suggestion.

 

[Comr4de]

Should be in suggestions.

 

[Keptick]

Should be in suggestions.

Probably, yea. I felt like it still belonged here, though, since it's also an analysis of some problems with the game. I'll be honest, I also didn't want 1.5 hours of typing to get drowned in all the suggestions that pop up every day :p

I also forgot to mention in "facts" that there's no reason to build (or even go near) planets apart from the scenery or to lag out the server while mining. I can't edit the main post for some reason...

 

[Andir]

Why a new block? I'm not saying I like the idea, but wouldn't a mining beam aimed at the planet suffice even if it didn't actually mine the plate? It could still generate resources just being focused at the planet. Would make for "orbital" mining stations. (Basically, build a tower off the planet, put on a harvesting beam and face it planet side. It could be clocked with logic and pulse resources out of the planet.

 

[Criss]

I would suggest a few changes

I want certain systems to be more valuable than others. The fact that there are more planets in a system already makes it more valuable. So I do not see a need to add to that by increasing the resources spawned in more populated star systems.

I want certain materials acquired from certain places.
Examples:
- More important/powerful modules require rarer resources.
- Hull color should be based on more than just one rock. Seems like there would then need to be a high demand for one plain asteroid.
- Medical blocks should require certain plants
- If fuel is ever added I want to see it come from gas giants stars nebulas or dust clouds, all of which is not an option yet, but still. That could happen.
Asteroids and planets should both contribute their own ways to crafting. It should not be entirely equal or entirely divided.

Different planet types could specialize in particular ores. I understand that a planet needs to be capable of accommodating any player so they can get started with a basic ship. Let's reduce the crafting recipes for reactors, thrusters and cores to a small set of resources, one that every planet has. Then the other 80% of the resources on a planet could be specific. A few ores/crystals, but not more than 6 or so. Lava planets generate the red/orange crystals and ores. Ice planets get the blue ones. It doesn't have to be that way. But you get the idea. Unique planets with geography and compositions that leads to a differences in their resources is a must for me.

I love the idea of draining planets of their slowly recharging resources. I also like the idea of doing this for each plate. This mining system should be separate from our capabilities as an astronaut to physically mine a block. We can harvest a planet for resources fast and get instant resources or we can set up this extractor and get it over time.

Calbiri stated he was against salvaging from space. This stuff might already be in the works.

Rarer resources should be found in more dangerous space. The core can be abundant in basic resources. It should also give us less in extraction rates. You want more resources faster? Then fly out into unclaimed pirate infested space and extract the resources that nobody has touched. The further from the core, the more there should be to to extract.

 

[Neon_42]

I definitely think this is worth consideration.

I can see this reducing the amount of lag from mining, though I see it increasing the total amount of lag from dumbshits crashing their ships into planets.

side question: What is the respawn time of a planet?

 

[Mariux]

We can even do it without harvester blocks. Sure, make planets unharvestable directly by salvage beams, but if you have a station/ship with salvage beams rigged to a clock facing a planet, it would harvest the resources of the planet without actally removing any blocks of it similarily to how harvesters would work. Of course, segment loading might be an issue when being away from the planet sector, but I'm sure there are ways around that.

 

[jorgekorke]

I agree with most of the points you brought here, keptick but also...

Planets DO respawn, providing an infinite source of easy to obtain minerals.

They don't, afaik.
Unless if the server taken in consideration has some custom script.


Your whole idea of the harverster blocks sounds good on theory, but it will make the life of casual players even more impossible, since the player will have to be even more active and online in order to not lose all of his stuff and production.
The new BP system already teared most of one-manners and small groups a part. Some are having a hard time surviving (like me), some had decided to join one of the big factions, some had quit.

 

[Will2brown]

I think asteroids (and possibly planets) should not regenerate or only regenerate rarely, I say this because currently one or two systems can sustain a large faction, not good. Also, being forced to expand territory will increase conflict dramatically and push some factions out of the starting Galaxy to avoid empires.

I personally love the idea of certain planets and asteroids being worth more, simply because right now the amount of belts and shops a system has is what makes it valuable, and these systems are hard to locate.

For example: on Elwyn Eternity there is one system with 14 shops 6 asteroid belts and many planets. Yet no one has claimed it simply because it is a one in however many stars in the galaxy chance of finding it.

 

[jorgekorke]

I think asteroids (and possibly planets) should not regenerate or only regenerate rarely, I say this because currently one or two systems can sustain a large faction, not good. Also, being forced to expand territory will increase conflict dramatically and push some factions out of the starting Galaxy to avoid empires.

Honestly, I think this is terrible.

1) While we all know that Starmade itself is capable of creating a bazillion of galaxies, this is totally unhealthy for the servers. Most of them can't even manage to hold one galaxy + 30 players without periodically skyrocketing the ping, imagine 30 galaxies.

2) Forcing the people to get far out will make interaction between players and factions even more rare. That's why NASS has/had size limits. Not that I agree with them for adopting this practice, but I get their point.

 

[SchnellBier]

This is an analysis of the current situation of faction interactions and general game economics, as well as a suggestion to fix to a LOT of issues can currently plague the game. This is a long one, but I strongly suggest that you read it. And yes, I know that the current game is incomplete, but I'd still like to get this out. Lets start with the facts:

Facts:

1. Planets are the best source of resources. They can provide many asteroids worth of resources with a single plate. Combined with the fact that they respawn (harvest one completely, kill it and reload the sector) this makes them the ideal source of resources for all factions and players out there.
2. Mining planets causes extreme server lag. (From personal experience, starting to mine a planet raises my ping, along with everyone else's, from 14 to a couple of hundreds on Elwyn Eternity, a very beefy server.)
3. Incentives for factions and/or players to interact are practically null. Why would I go fight this other faction when there's absolutely no benefit to do so? Especially when I risk loosing a ship that I worked very hard to produce?
4. Assumption: Mining is the equivalent to an MMO grind in that it is a very basic, repetitive and boring thing to do. Mining is NOT fun, a game should be played for fun.
5. Capturing and extending a territory has practically no use. Even an entire faction would have a hard time depleting the asteroid belts of an entire system before they respawn.
6. There is currently no fp penalty for loosing territory.

Conclusion from the above points:

Factions have absolutely no incentive to interact and combat due to the 100% loss no gain for any of the factions (except if they want to harvest the other faction's ships, which would just cause said faction to not show up at the next fight). Capturing more systems currently serves no purpose other than bragging rights as there is nothing to do with these extra systems. In addition, defending captured systems (that aren't the home system) serves no purpose since there is absolutely no penalty to loosing it. Simply waiting for the aggressor to leave and recapturing it with a 5 block outpost is the best way to go (which is very bad game-play-wise).

The solution below is something that I think would solve all this. However, even if it's rejected by the devs, the above points will still stand.

The solution™:

Notice: Please read this completely as it wouldn't work if a single point is missing. Do not argue or comment if you haven't read and understood every point and what they entail.

1. Make planets invulnerable against mining beams (impossible to mine).
2. Each planet in the universe has the same resource regeneration rate (in minutes or seconds, depending what's better for performance).
3. The base regeneration rate of a planet can be influenced (increased/decreased) by multiple factors:

• • The radius of a planet. A planet with greater radius has a higher regeneration rate.
  • The distance from the center of a galaxy. The center having the richest planets and the external systems having the poorest ones. For example, a 200m radius planet located at the center of the galaxy would have a greater regeneration rate than an identical planet located at the tip of a galactic arm.
  • (optional) The more planets in a system the richer they are. The reason I say this is optional is because, while not being essential, it would encourage people to fight over rich planetary systems even more.
  • (optional) Show the sovereignty of planets on the star map. This is just a quality of life feature and isn't essential.

Ok, so that's the planetary part of things. Now, you might be asking: "what the hell is he on about". The juicy part comes next:

1. Implement a new block, called the harvester. This block could be placed on planets and would essentially harvest (produce) minerals that are contained in the plate it's on. This could be linked to plex storages and would deposit the minerals there (just like mining beams). The materials being "harvested" aren't actually taken from the planet's blocks. As in, it doesn't actually mine the blocks out of a planet. Instead, it kinda poofs them into existence (more on that latter, for those concerned about realism).
2. The harvester would have a base harvest rate (per second or minute, as with planet regen rate). This rate could be increased with the use of harvest enhancers. Every enhancer block would add a set amount of "harvest speed" to the harvester. However, don't forget that the planet has a resource regeneration speed. Having your harvest rate go over the regen rate would be a waste of extender blocks.
3. Each plate has it's own harvester. Meaning that if you want to completely exploit a planet you need a harvester on every single plate. Quite some work to set up, but very rewarding.
4. The territory mining bonuses apply to the harvester. Meaning that being in friendly territory grants a x12 (or whatever is set on the server) bonus to the materials harvested.

Addressing concerns:

• Asteroids would become useless
  • not really. Asteroids are the only source of colored rock (such as larimar), which is required to make colored hull. Besides, it's not like a player could set up harvesters right off the bat. Some asteroid mining would be required to craft these harvesters. In addition, planetary mining is already much more time efficient than asteroid mining.
• Infinite resources = really bad for economy
  • When you think about it, resources are already infinite. Planets DO respawn, providing an infinite source of easy to obtain minerals. My suggestion would eliminate the server crippling lag, provide players with materials in a non-boring way (one would still need to set-up harvesters. Depending on their cost it might not be easy to do).
• A single player could harvest multiple planets on his own, meaning that he'd have an extreme abundance of resources.
  • While this is true, remember that only the home base is invincible. If you don't like the fact that a player captured 15 solar systems then simply attack the planets and make them your own! First of all, a single person would never be able to defend a massive planetary array. Secondly, a player could never faction 15 systems because of the fp cost. So, while it would be possible for a single player to become insanely rich, it is extremely unlikely. Setting up harvesters dozens of planets alone would also be a massive undertaking. Remember, it is a lot harder to defend than to attack. If a player manages to defend 15 planets on his own then all powers to him, he deserves to keep them. Also don't forget that he'd have to go to each harvester one at a time to get the stuff they produced, just that alone would take a fairly big effort.

In conclusion:

While this may seem overly complicated at first it's actually a fairly simple systen. The benefits is that factions would have a concrete incentive to expand and attack/defend their territory. Imagine an 8 planet system located close to the galactic core. Everyone and their mother would try to get their hands on it's planets to set up very profitable harvesters. In my opinion, having to fight over resources would revive the flame of factions in a very fun way! It's also much better than getting bored while lagging the server to death (aka: the current resource acquisition system). This could also bring players together. Factions could band up and defend their territory together (since planet plates are independent you could have multiple factions harvesting a single planet). It could also potentially pave the way for ground combat (since capturing stuff is easier than having to rebuild everything).


Thanks for reading this, if you have any comments or concerns that I didn't cover then please let me know so that I can demolish address them . Just kidding, if you have anything positive or negative to say don't be shy and say it ^_^ (as long as it's constructive, please).

Ps: I wasn't sure if I should put this in general or suggestion sub-forums since it's part analysis part suggestion. Feel free to move the thread, if it's needed @mods.

I really love this idea. It´s somewhere between you don´t have to mine a lot and you have something to fight for.

But I want to add some thoughts about it.

1. Setting up the harvester have to be a real task. They should eat a lot of power and ressources to be worth protecting. Maybe patch in that there are frequent pirate attacks on harvesters to get an additional pve content.

2. The income should be steady but not really that high. Too high ressource income would make mining completely useless. In addition it would maybe be a good idea to turn the mining bonus a bit down again to support that mining is still usefull or maybe that mining get the full bonus and the planet harvesting just a part of it. Whatever some changes that mining is still a thing to do.

Why I really like this suggestion:

1. Fights over "shield ressource planets" because laminar asteroids are still pretty rare. This planets would have an incredible high value.

2. I´m really excited about the fact that transportation of ressources would become a thing in gameplay. In combination with a changed storage system would make transport ships really usefull.

3. The obvious "pros" you posted.

Goddamnit stop suggesting so much awesome things. Schema needs more hands to program all of this.

 

[Byamarro]

I would love to be able to build AI miners.

 

[Keptick]

I agree with most of the points you brought here, keptick but also...



They don't, afaik.
Unless if the server taken in consideration has some custom script.


Your whole idea of the harverster blocks sounds good on theory, but it will make the life of casual players even more impossible, since the player will have to be even more active and online in order to not lose all of his stuff and production.
The new BP system already teared most of one-manners and small groups a part. Some are having a hard time surviving (like me), some had decided to join one of the big factions, some had quit.

Last time I checked planets respawn, I'll have to double chek that.

Don't forget that a player could homebase a single planet. So he'd have at least one planet that can't be lost.

Will2brown It's a lot easier to steal something then to make your own. Taking away someone's planets would be a lot more time efficient than setting up your own tbh. Besides, conflict isn't a bad thing, things are extremely dull when there is none (I'm talking ingame conflict, not forum side drama).

 

[Malacodor]

How do you defend your mining facilities when none of your faction members are online?

Let's reduce the crafting recipes for reactors, thrusters and cores to a small set of resources, one that every planet has.

What do you want to reduce? These blocks only require metal meshes and crystal circuits, which can even be produced with scrap from abandoned stations.

 

[Sha3es]

Hmmm, lets just skip over the harvester beam and make a planet generate a certain % of its natural resources per hour. These resources would then be transferred to a faction controlled station in the system that you would then have to pick up.

This means two things

1. you will not have to defend each planet from enemy attack at once, which could be tedious and detrimental to smaller factions. Along with a massive drain on overall faction/ player resources.

2. Will make claiming systems worth something if you you fight for them because outside of faction home bases stations would be completely open to attack.

Also in the future if we really want to we could add in an AI that could be used to ferry the resources from an area around the planet to each systems station. This would require bigger stations and eliminate the problem of small overly hidden stations by requiring a certain amount of docking space per station.

 

[TheFloorMatt]

An interesting read, it definitely highlights many of the reasons I'm not playing this game a lot right now.

keptick I really do like the idea for resource acquisition, and I could see this working. Depending how this is balanced though, you most likely only need a couple systems to have an excellent gathering rate.

The harvester would have a base harvest rate (per second or minute, as with planet regen rate). This rate could be increased with the use of harvest enhancers. Every enhancer block would add a set amount of "harvest speed" to the harvester. However, don't forget that the planet has a resource regeneration speed. Having your harvest rate go over the regen rate would be a waste of extender blocks.

While that would work, I think a solution that would tie in better with the current system is to make these harvesters use FP. Every normal FP update will be the interval that the harvester mines at. It would take FP like a system, and then deposit the minerals in that linked plex storage or whatever. The more harvest enhancers, the more minerals deposited (Maybe more FP used as well?)! I'm not a professional game balancer, so I have no idea if your original idea or this modified idea would be better.

These planets with harvesters on them would definitely make a prime target, and would be profitable to attack. I think you absolutely nailed that aspect. Honestly, I can't think of a better incentive to get factions to fight each other. However...

I think a more simple alternative to getting factions to actually fight each other is to make home bases not invulnerable, and perhaps just give the system they control some sort of ridiculous benefit instead. Maybe enemy factions deal heavily decreased damage in the system and own/ally factions deal much more? Either way it would make attacking a faction have a possibility of having a profit if you can manage to overcome their home base and loot it. This is simply an idea that would not change the core gameplay as it stands right now. Well it would, but not quite as dramatically as what Keptick is suggesting :P

Vanhelzing I really like all of your ideas except for the first one; More important/powerful modules require rarer resources.

In my opinion this just makes it impossible for a solo player to play solo. I do think a large ship (100k or more mass) should be hard to get, but at a scale like that even large factions would have a hard time acquiring them if the resources for more standard blocks are made even harder to get. In my opinion, making them more common would encourage factions to fight more as well! A standard eve online rule was don't fly what you can't afford to lose. This seems to carry over to Starmade pretty well, so I think making resources easier to get would have people less upset about losing ships, as they were easier to obtain in the first place.

 

[Mered4]

I like this.

I like this ALOT.

+1

 

[lupoCani]

This is an analysis of the current situation of faction interactions and general game economics, as well as a suggestion to fix to a LOT of issues can currently plague the game. This is a long one, but I strongly suggest that you read it. And yes, I know that the current game is incomplete, but I'd still like to get this out. Lets start with the facts:

Facts:

1. Planets are the best source of resources. They can provide many asteroids worth of resources with a single plate. Combined with the fact that they respawn (harvest one completely, kill it and reload the sector) this makes them the ideal source of resources for all factions and players out there.
2. Mining planets causes extreme server lag. (From personal experience, starting to mine a planet raises my ping, along with everyone else's, from 14 to a couple of hundreds on Elwyn Eternity, a very beefy server.)
3. Incentives for factions and/or players to interact are practically null. Why would I go fight this other faction when there's absolutely no benefit to do so? Especially when I risk loosing a ship that I worked very hard to produce?
4. Assumption: Mining is the equivalent to an MMO grind in that it is a very basic, repetitive and boring thing to do. Mining is NOT fun, a game should be played for fun.
5. Capturing and extending a territory has practically no use. Even an entire faction would have a hard time depleting the asteroid belts of an entire system before they respawn.
6. There is currently no fp penalty for loosing territory.

Conclusion from the above points:

Factions have absolutely no incentive to interact and combat due to the 100% loss no gain for any of the factions (except if they want to harvest the other faction's ships, which would just cause said faction to not show up at the next fight). Capturing more systems currently serves no purpose other than bragging rights as there is nothing to do with these extra systems. In addition, defending captured systems (that aren't the home system) serves no purpose since there is absolutely no penalty to loosing it. Simply waiting for the aggressor to leave and recapturing it with a 5 block outpost is the best way to go (which is very bad game-play-wise).

The solution below is something that I think would solve all this. However, even if it's rejected by the devs, the above points will still stand.

The solution™:

Notice: Please read this completely as it wouldn't work if a single point is missing. Do not argue or comment if you haven't read and understood every point and what they entail.

1. Make planets invulnerable against mining beams (impossible to mine).
2. Each planet in the universe has the same resource regeneration rate (in minutes or seconds, depending what's better for performance).
3. The base regeneration rate of a planet can be influenced (increased/decreased) by multiple factors:

• • The radius of a planet. A planet with greater radius has a higher regeneration rate.
  • The distance from the center of a galaxy. The center having the richest planets and the external systems having the poorest ones. For example, a 200m radius planet located at the center of the galaxy would have a greater regeneration rate than an identical planet located at the tip of a galactic arm.
  • (optional) The more planets in a system the richer they are. The reason I say this is optional is because, while not being essential, it would encourage people to fight over rich planetary systems even more.
  • (optional) Show the sovereignty of planets on the star map. This is just a quality of life feature and isn't essential.

Ok, so that's the planetary part of things. Now, you might be asking: "what the hell is he on about". The juicy part comes next:

1. Implement a new block, called the harvester. This block could be placed on planets and would essentially harvest (produce) minerals that are contained in the plate it's on. This could be linked to plex storages and would deposit the minerals there (just like mining beams). The materials being "harvested" aren't actually taken from the planet's blocks. As in, it doesn't actually mine the blocks out of a planet. Instead, it kinda poofs them into existence (more on that latter, for those concerned about realism).
2. The harvester would have a base harvest rate (per second or minute, as with planet regen rate). This rate could be increased with the use of harvest enhancers. Every enhancer block would add a set amount of "harvest speed" to the harvester. However, don't forget that the planet has a resource regeneration speed. Having your harvest rate go over the regen rate would be a waste of extender blocks.
3. Each plate has it's own harvester. Meaning that if you want to completely exploit a planet you need a harvester on every single plate. Quite some work to set up, but very rewarding.
4. The territory mining bonuses apply to the harvester. Meaning that being in friendly territory grants a x12 (or whatever is set on the server) bonus to the materials harvested.

Addressing concerns:

• Asteroids would become useless
  • not really. Asteroids are the only source of colored rock (such as larimar), which is required to make colored hull. Besides, it's not like a player could set up harvesters right off the bat. Some asteroid mining would be required to craft these harvesters. In addition, planetary mining is already much more time efficient than asteroid mining.
• Infinite resources = really bad for economy
  • When you think about it, resources are already infinite. Planets DO respawn, providing an infinite source of easy to obtain minerals. My suggestion would eliminate the server crippling lag, provide players with materials in a non-boring way (one would still need to set-up harvesters. Depending on their cost it might not be easy to do).
• A single player could harvest multiple planets on his own, meaning that he'd have an extreme abundance of resources.
  • While this is true, remember that only the home base is invincible. If you don't like the fact that a player captured 15 solar systems then simply attack the planets and make them your own! First of all, a single person would never be able to defend a massive planetary array. Secondly, a player could never faction 15 systems because of the fp cost. So, while it would be possible for a single player to become insanely rich, it is extremely unlikely. Setting up harvesters dozens of planets alone would also be a massive undertaking. Remember, it is a lot harder to defend than to attack. If a player manages to defend 15 planets on his own then all powers to him, he deserves to keep them. Also don't forget that he'd have to go to each harvester one at a time to get the stuff they produced, just that alone would take a fairly big effort.

In conclusion:

While this may seem overly complicated at first it's actually a fairly simple systen. The benefits is that factions would have a concrete incentive to expand and attack/defend their territory. Imagine an 8 planet system located close to the galactic core. Everyone and their mother would try to get their hands on it's planets to set up very profitable harvesters. In my opinion, having to fight over resources would revive the flame of factions in a very fun way! It's also much better than getting bored while lagging the server to death (aka: the current resource acquisition system). This could also bring players together. Factions could band up and defend their territory together (since planet plates are independent you could have multiple factions harvesting a single planet). It could also potentially pave the way for ground combat (since capturing stuff is easier than having to rebuild everything).


Thanks for reading this, if you have any comments or concerns that I didn't cover then please let me know so that I can demolish address them . Just kidding, if you have anything positive or negative to say don't be shy and say it ^_^ (as long as it's constructive, please).

Ps: I wasn't sure if I should put this in general or suggestion sub-forums since it's part analysis part suggestion. Feel free to move the thread, if it's needed @mods.

Huh. I was considering making a similar suggestion myself, but of course I could never match the quality of an original Keptick manifesto.

One concern I have is the implementation of the harvester you suggest. The base concept is definitely sound, but simply having a block that spits out more blocks for you sounds... dull. Or rather, detached from the physical world of the game. I'd much rather see it actually perform physical work on the planet- excavate non-ore blocks and connect to the ores with beams, grow "roots" to valuables it wants to extract resources from, or something along those lines. This would hopefully be less damaging to immersion, not to mention provide some balancing for free, since larger planets will inherently generate resources faster simply by having more ore blocks.

On a side note, I think the function of the enhancers you suggest would be just as well performed by the already-present overdrive effect. I'm also not entirely certain if hitting the speed cap is a proper result for trying to run the extraction too fast. Over-exploitation seems like the kind of thing you punish with resources running out.

Other than that, this is as always a great analysis/suggestion, though perhaps you should cross-post them to the suggestions forum.

 

[Criss]

How do you defend your mining facilities when none of your faction members are online?

With turrets. The same vulnerabilities that apply to regular stations currently.

In my opinion this just makes it impossible for a solo player to play solo

A player just starting off or playing solo does not necessarily need overdrive. It's primary use is for weapons and it can be a massive advantage. They hardly need it against pirates. A warp gate network is a large scale project and should only be a realistic goal of a faction or multiple factions. Solo players do not need warp gates modules in that case. Therefore it would be entirely acceptable to make those modules more complicated or harder to craft. They have a big effect on gameplay.

 

[Keptick]

Malacodor , you use turrets, drones (AI ships), hire someone that's on a different timezone OR don't capture stuff that you can't defend.

To be honest, lack of activity is an entirely different problem.