Read by Schine Ammunition as an Alternative

[DivineEvil]

I don't think SM is on a step, where suggestions like these should be seriously considered. With different variations of weapons people can make, it feels as an overkill. I'm all for proper weapon balance first, then some alternative power sources after that. Considering the ammunition, I think it is much better as a separate Artillery weapon replacing the Pulse system.

Then sure, make some different types of ammunition and implement this weapon into the current master/slave system and make Effect subsystems having a reduced effect on an Artillery master.

 

[0Samuel0]

Cool as it could be, I don't think that ammo for ship weapons systems is a good idea, even if it is entirely optional.
Weapon systems are already laggy enough without adding the need to sort through storages looking for ammo. And also one the of the great ideas of starmade is that almost everything is infinitely configurable because it is based on positioning of blocks. Ammo would not be a block in itself, and really would not fit with the whole theme of shipbuilding at all as a result.

Now, adding ammo of many flavors for hand weapons, that might be an interesting idea, and a way to add hand weapon customization, something people have mentioned before.

 

[Bench]

Interesting thoughts on the subject. I can't speak from Schine's perspective at this point but my own opinion says that I'm all for consumables, it helps balance the economy. However my concern about any new system like this would be how difficult we make it for new players starting out with little resources, especially if it were two different "weapon powering" systems (power and ammo) that they need to learn.

Just some things to think about.

 

[Syleiel]

Interesting thoughts on the subject. I can't speak from Schine's perspective at this point but my own opinion says that I'm all for consumables, it helps balance the economy. However my concern about any new system like this would be how difficult we make it for new players starting out with little resources, especially if it were two different "weapon powering" systems (power and ammo) that they need to learn.

Just some things to think about.

That's why I believe that certain weapons should solely require power as a source of "ammo" and other weapon systems should require physical ammunition that is stored in a magazine block and then linked to the weapons computer. Requiring weapons to only use either power or consumable ammunition would idealy eliminate any confusion a new player might have for any new weapon systems that were to be implemented.

 

[FlyingDebris]

Oh god, another ammunition thr-..........hm. I actually quite like this.

 

[Kelpaz]

Instead of resupply from a store, storage blocks could hold ammo and restock ships as they redock to a carrier.
The keyword here is alternative to power for small craft not a replacement for all ships.

 

[Micro753]

Maybe, with the new storage system I've heard suggested, the ammo could take up space to store, but the weapon using the ammo would ignore shields since it's a big hunk of metal instead of plasma/lasers (kind of like collision damage(if the server has it enabled)). Since it would need space to store, one would not be able to carry a lot, and since they would ignore shields, they may make a difference in the battle if used tactically. Ideas/thoughts on this?
[DOUBLEPOST=1436844643,1436844613][/DOUBLEPOST]As in, space inside the ship. Not storage blocks.

 

[Lecic]

weapon using the ammo would ignore shields

Hahaha, noooooo. Shield ignoring is the most overpowered ability a weapon can have.

 

[Micro753]

Hahaha, noooooo. Shield ignoring is the most overpowered ability a weapon can have.

I don't see it as overpowered if you can only store a few in your ship.
[DOUBLEPOST=1436844886,1436844772][/DOUBLEPOST]If you could have a ton of them, then yes, ignoring shields would be overpowered.

 

[Lecic]

I don't see it as overpowered if you can only store a few in your ship.
[DOUBLEPOST=1436844886,1436844772][/DOUBLEPOST]If you could have a ton of them, then yes, ignoring shields would be overpowered.

Shield ignoring is the griefing troll's weapon. Why would you take a large ship to a battle when you can take a small ship a poke a bunch of obnoxious holes in anyone using a larger ship? Shield ignoring isn't the weapon of choice for someone who plans to stick around. It's the weapon of choice for someone who wants to do some damage and then jump back out to piss people off. Swarmers have a similar problem.

 

[Megacrafter127]

I don't see it as overpowered if you can only store a few in your ship.

And the storage on ships can be extended indefinetly, effectively allowing a ship to carry trillions of shots.

 

[Micro753]

Shield ignoring is the griefing troll's weapon. Why would you take a large ship to a battle when you can take a small ship a poke a bunch of obnoxious holes in anyone using a larger ship? Shield ignoring isn't the weapon of choice for someone who plans to stick around. It's the weapon of choice for someone who wants to do some damage and then jump back out to piss people off. Swarmers have a similar problem.

They would need space to store, not storage blocks, so a small ship couldn't carry them. I'm thinking about a different storage system then what's currently in the game.
http://starmadedock.net/threads/new-cargo-system.719/
http://starmadedock.net/threads/the-great-economy.8559/
"...having cargo being a physical object rather than being stored in chests, is planned. Which is said on the Starmade Roadmap." -Blaza612
If storage was like this. This is what I am thinking about.

 

[ltmauve]

Nope. Still too imbalanced. It'd make smaller ships shields even less effective. It'll pretty much be mandatory and make shields worthless. Nope nope nope. I don't care if you can only fit a finite amount, any amount of shield penetration is too much.

 

[Broomsage]

Ammunition Materializers, they use power to produce ammunition, this is presumably how AMCs and Missiles work right?

Ammunition could just be the ability to produce surplus munitions before a fight. You might have a block that determines max storage capacity
(Cargo blocks Cough cough) that you can link to weapon systems. Said surplus can be used without power cost and with no recharge time.

A meta item representing munitions should appear, taking up space based on damage.
These meta items should be transferable between weapon inventories and usable in any size weapon, provided the cargo space is available.
I might post a thread on this depending on how well the idea is received.

 

[Syleiel]

One problem that the game is having right now is that there are practically no valuable item sinks. Implementing items with value that are removed from the game, once they are used, serves to create an enviroment of supply and demand, resulting in an economy starting to form. Ammunition is an ideal form of an item sink, as it will always be in demand.

 

[Groovrider]

Just out of curiosity, if we're talking about carrying around a few million rounds of ammo made from something as dense or denser than the hull it's punching through, how much is this all going to weigh? I can imagine quite a lot and I really can't see a good reason why it shouldn't.

 

[Broomsage]

Why would you carry around millions of rounds of ammunition?
You can materialize ammo as you go, depleting ammo at the same rate that you make it. That should be the default setting. That's where we currently are now.

The implications of having transferable ammo being you could carry four enormous missiles on a fighter without having to have an enormous missile launcher or the power systems to use it.

Balance being that you have to have cargo space and thrust to carry four enormous missiles.

 

[Nickizzy]

I think ammo should be an effect like ion, it would
1. No power cost-useable by bombers
2. x10 damage or so-larger missles for bombers
3. 1 ammo/damage, with exponential expansion(1:1 with 20, 30 ammo to damage at 400 modules)
4. Ammo stored in storage linked to ammo computer, must use cargo blocks to hold more ammo.
5. the weapon would be able to hold one full charge(one missile) by it's self, so bombers could fire one shot before returning to base.

Ammo is made in (basic?) factories, using scrap. Better types of ammo are like effects and are built in the same level factory as the effect(ion made in standard, ion ammo made in standard), but require the capsule, and cost more. Ammo is 0.1 mass, which will matter at higher amounts.
[DOUBLEPOST=1452183668,1452183596][/DOUBLEPOST]Ammo also automatically transfers through rails automatically, without need of a link.

 

[Lecic]

Something to remember with giving weapons "ammo" with the idea of them being used on bombers- big ships can use them too.

 

[Broomsage]

Ammunition should not have to be manufactured using resources. The use of resources is what makes the whole ammunition thing controversial in the first place.

So, have current weapon groups be used only for the manufacturing of ammo out of energy, like the current setup. But instead of only producing one projectile and then having to cool down, the weapon continues to produce ammunition until all cargo blocks linked to it are full. All ammunition can be expended at the highest rate of fire until there is no more surplus.