Alternative Missile Combination Ideas

[Valiant70]

This is a brainstorm for a possible alternative way of setting up the missile combinations. I think this better reflects the way missiles are actually used in the game. Obviously there are still things missing, like a way to trade range for damage or vice versa, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless.

In this alternate scheme, 3 of 4 missile types lock on. The remaining one is a dumbfire that trades speed for damage depending on the combination ratio.

• Missile--: General purpose
  
  • Like the current m-b weapon, this is a general-use missile you can throw at just about anything.
  • Works about equally well against hull and shields.
• Missile-Cannon: "Shaped charge"
  • The larger the secondary, the more damage goes forward, into the target.
  • Overall damage is somewhat reduced for balance.
    
  • Damage against shields is reduced even more. At 100% secondary, damage to shields is reduced by 90%
• Missile-Beam: "Shield-buster" or "Ion warhead"
  
  • More damage to shields, but less against blocks.
  • At 100% secondary, damage to shields is doubled and damage to blocks is reduced by 90%.
• Missile-Missile: "Dumbfire"
  • Double damage but no guidance.
  • The larger the secondary, the lower the missile's speed and the larger the maximum blast radius. With 100% secondary, it acts like today's "bomb" missile.

 

[alterintel]

What about a proximity Missile... it only needs to get within say 100 meters of your ship, and does limited damage?
Much easier to hit, but less damage?

 

[Valiant70]

What about a proximity Missile... it only needs to get within say 100 meters of your ship, and does limited damage?
Much easier to hit, but less damage?

I guess that could replace the shield buster. I don't think it would be very useful though, unless it literally got close and then fired a cannon round at close range or something.

 

[jayman38]

I like the idea of a missile that does less damage the farther it goes, similar to the beam weapon.

This behavior is similar to how IRL a harpoon-class missile does as much damage with its remaining engine fuel as it does with its warhead, depending on how much fuel it has remaining when it hits its target.

On the other hand, "missiles of the future" (proton torpedoes, photon torpedoes, quantum torpedoes, missiles with ship-like ion drives, etc.) would probably have non-reactive fuel and/or are so efficient that just a tiny bit of fuel goes a super-long way.

"This Martian hotrod better get at least a million miles to the gallon. Oith [Earth] ain't just down the street." --- Bugs Bunny

 

[OfficialCoding]

Yeah. Overall good plan. I definitly want to see a proximity-type missile. Maybe that could be missile+missile and they could remove Bomb

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

I don't think this is a good idea because it would effectively buff missiles by giving them all current weapon roles except PD. Missiles are weak, yes, but because of issues with DPS and tracking, they actually have nearly the best role distribution of any of the three weapon systems; making them fulfill the role of beams as well will just lead to MissileMade all over again unless PD is absolutely nuts.
Basically, I think the shield-busting should be left to beams.

 

[Valiant70]

Missiles are weak, yes, but because of issues with DPS and tracking, they actually have nearly the best role distribution of any of the three weapon systems; making them fulfill the role of beams as well will just lead to MissileMade all over again unless PD is absolutely nuts.

PD is absolutely nuts. Don’t worry.
[doublepost=1535143453,1535142874][/doublepost]I heard someone suggest making missiles ignore shields. That way shields counter beams and guns, while PD counters missiles. I think that would be interesting. In certain regards it might be easier to balance, and in other ways harder.
“Missiles are useless!” - “LOL not if skrubs don’t run PD.”
“Missiles are OP!” - “You need to use more PD, or use your front guns to shoot down incoming missiles.”

 

[EricBlank]

I actually like this idea better than what we have now. Like nebulon_b said it could turn back into missiles being the go-to weapons system again if not properly balanced. Then again, the beams turned into the new meta recently, and ive basically come to the realization balance isnt gonna happen anytime soon, schema just isnt putting the time into balancing the game that will be necessary later in development. So i would focus now, as far as suggestions go, on what would make good features that could be hammered into a somewhat balanced system later.

One thing that might not fit perfectly is the shield buster vs shaped charges ideas. I rather think damage dealt to an opponent should begin to relate to damage type spread vs the resistances of the target, if that makes sense. Those two combinations could be used for other tactical/behavioral options, like:

- the proximity detonations suggested above, detonates if it misses its target while still in blast range
- retaining the auto-tracking "heat seeking" feature we have now, risks targeting neutral entities.
- very quick lock-on, high velocity & turn rate missiles that suffer in the overall damage per projectile, blast radius and range departments. That would also be very useful for targetting small, agile fighter craft, with limitations that make it unsuitable for longer range fights or between big warships with thick armor and shields.
- missiles that after launch take a random, waving arced path to the target, being difficult to intercept, but limited range, damage and reliability against small targets (will probably miss)
- kinetic impacters that dump their limited damage into a small blast radius but accelerate the target in the opposite direction of travel.
- tracking beacons that deal very little damage, but "paint" the object that they hit with "very obnoxiously visible particulates", reducing its effective stealth drive strength when attempting to jam or cloak and decreasing lock on time for other vessels targetting it.
- jamming flares, which reduce the scanning strength and increase lock time of all (including friendly and parent) ships in range of them (jamming strength inversely related to just how close you are to them, directly related to secondary computer %) until destroyed, stick to unshielded objects they hit, swirl in unpredictable patterns for 30secs, then explode, doing light AoE damage across a large area.

Thise last three would work better as special weapons systems though, i feel.

I definitely like the dumbfire progressing into a unpropelled bomb at 100% secondary strength and the basic missile having (probably not the best) lock on capabilities, though.

Not all missiles should bypass shields, just the dumbfire maybe? I would go so far as to say, that if a targets shields are still online then it only deals its secondary computer % to the hull, and the rest split between the shields covering the location it hit. So a 100% bomb would be unpropelled but would entirely bypass shields if it hit successfully, a 90% would have your ships velocity + 0.1x m/s and 10% of its damage would go to shields. A 50% would have half of its damage go to shields and half to hull directly, and move at your velocity + 0.5x m/s etc. So partial % dumbfire missiles have a use beyond the higher damage per projectile vs longer reload rate. Even though ai and most players probably couldnt hit shit except at point blank range, because they have no tracking capabilities.

 

[MacThule]

I think Ion effect eliminates the need for a shield buster, it becomes redundant. I like the other suggestions though, and the idea of a proximity missile.

Missile-beam creating an energy missile that dissipates over distance is cool too; something pretty fast and deadly at close range that fades out so that after 1km it's doing half damage or less maybe.

 

[Valiant70]

Not all missiles should bypass shields, just the dumbfire maybe? I would go so far as to say, that if a targets shields are still online then it only deals its secondary computer % to the hull, and the rest split between the shields covering the location it hit. So a 100% bomb would be unpropelled but would entirely bypass shields if it hit successfully, a 90% would have your ships velocity + 0.1x m/s and 10% of its damage would go to shields. A 50% would have half of its damage go to shields and half to hull directly, and move at your velocity + 0.5x m/s etc. So partial % dumbfire missiles have a use beyond the higher damage per projectile vs longer reload rate. Even though ai and most players probably couldnt hit shit except at point blank range, because they have no tracking capabilities.

That would be all right. A barrage of 50% dumbfire at close range could (at least theoretically) work pretty well to tear up a shield tank if it doesn't have enough armor.

I think Ion effect eliminates the need for a shield buster, it becomes redundant. I like the other suggestions though, and the idea of a proximity missile.

Missile-beam creating an energy missile that dissipates over distance is cool too; something pretty fast and deadly at close range that fades out so that after 1km it's doing half damage or less maybe.

Dumbfire/bomb already goes through shields, which is more interesting, so it would probably be better to come up with an interesting, useful way to do a proximity charge. With a normal explosion radius, it would probably not do a lot of damage. Maybe splitting into multi-munition heat-seekers at close range would work.

 

[MacThule]

Dumbfire/bomb already goes through shields, which is more interesting, so it would probably be better to come up with an interesting, useful way to do a proximity charge. With a normal explosion radius, it would probably not do a lot of damage. Maybe splitting into multi-munition heat-seekers at close range would work.

Give it a radius comparable to pulse, maybe. Or cluster-bombs work (though I think a burst of just dumbfire munitions would be less OP than a bunch of guided ones).

And actually; this is a flak weapon. This is what we should be using for PD.
And I think proximity trigger is fine, but maybe process intensive. We actually have munitions like this IRL and they are range-timed; you hit the target with a laser range-finder and it gives you the distance, so you turn the timing knob to just a tick past the target and you can get nice bursts just behind walls or over trenches, through windows, etc. So if proximity triggering is too prohibitive to code and would cause lag, it can always be on a timer (hold the button down and it fires on release, then bursts at 1 second + the hold-down time; meaning it would reward players who actually practice with it and learn what range various hold-down times gives you).