Allow members to see reason for deletion of post

    Nauvran

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    Currently posts gets delete left and right, I often dont see the reason for why it was deleted as it simply states "This message by FaithfullCitizen has been removed from public view. Deleted by BigBrother"

    It would be nice if we( at least the user that got his/her/it's message deleted) could get a proper reasoning behind why the deletion. I dont see how we are supposed to learn whats allowed and what isnt if we do not know what we said wrong.
    Do as with warnings, send a PM with "Your message has been deleted" qoute the message, explain why it was deleted and we might live to learn another day.

    Frankly it's just fucking annoying to get a post deleted without being able to remember what said post even contained.
     
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    Currently posts gets delete left and right, I often dont see the reason for why it was deleted as it simply states "This message by FaithfullCitizen has been removed from public view. Deleted by BigBrother"

    It would be nice if we( at least the user that got his/her/it's message deleted) could get a proper reasoning behind why the deletion. I dont see how we are supposed to learn whats allowed and what isnt if we do not know what we said wrong.
    Do as with warnings, send a PM with "Your message has been deleted" qoute the message, explain why it was deleted and we might live to learn another day.

    Frankly it's just fucking annoying to get a post deleted without being able to remember what said post even contained.
    I think the reason-giving should happen in a two-part process. The first part would be the short explanation, which would appear at the original location of the deletion (basically what has been happening in the past where it says the reason for deletion after saying who deleted it). The second part would be the detailed explanation, which would occur as a private message to the user explaining in more detail what was wrong with the post and why it was wrong. This detailed explanation could also help the appeal process run more smoothly because the user would then know the exact line of thinking the mod had when the post was deleted and would not need to guess at what the deletion was about.

    It would take a little more time for the mods, but it would likely make things run more smoothly in the long run.
     

    Nauvran

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    I think the reason-giving should happen in a two-part process. The first part would be the short explanation, which would appear at the original location of the deletion (basically what has been happening in the past where it says the reason for deletion after saying who deleted it). The second part would be the detailed explanation, which would occur as a private message to the user explaining in more detail what was wrong with the post and why it was wrong. This detailed explanation could also help the appeal process run more smoothly because the user would then know the exact line of thinking the mod had when the post was deleted and would not need to guess at what the deletion was about.

    It would take a little more time for the mods, but it would likely make things run more smoothly in the long run.
     
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    If something is offtopic (I noticed that in this cases the explanation texts are missing), the question what is considered offtopic can be answered by reading the forum rules again.

    If the deleted texts were combined with warning points you get an explanaion in a pm anyway.

    It's not big brother or some censorship going on, as in the most cases off topic stuff get's deleted.
    If your opinion to that matter was still important to the poster he could have found or openend the suitable thread. If you feel censored after deletion just repost in a suitable topic.
     
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    CyberTao

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    I think the reason-giving should happen in a two-part process. The first part would be the short explanation, which would appear at the original location of the deletion (basically what has been happening in the past where it says the reason for deletion after saying who deleted it). The second part would be the detailed explanation, which would occur as a private message to the user explaining in more detail what was wrong with the post and why it was wrong. This detailed explanation could also help the appeal process run more smoothly because the user would then know the exact line of thinking the mod had when the post was deleted and would not need to guess at what the deletion was about.

    It would take a little more time for the mods, but it would likely make things run more smoothly in the long run.
    I know you like to try and help, but that was the process, and still is the process.
    Unless they removed it, deleted posts/threads show up in red saying who made it, who removed it, and a reasoning. And a Message is sent to the "offending" party (normally automaticalled generated).

    The problem is they don't always follow the rules and do that, as it is possible to removed a post without the auto sending being fired.
     

    Nauvran

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    If something is offtopic (I noticed that in this cases the explanation texts are missing), the question what is considered offtopic can be answered by reading the forum rules again.

    If the deleted texts were combined with warning points you get an explanaion in a pm anyway.

    It's not big brother or some censorship going on, as in the most cases off topic stuff get's deleted.
    If your opinion to that matter was still important to the poster he could have found or openend the suitable thread. If you feel censored after deletion just repost in a suitable topic.
    Does not change that there should still be given an explanation as to why your comment was removed and an option to see what you wrote so you have the possibility to argue against or appeal the message as not being offtopic. A series of posts can easily be seen as being offtopic by some if they haven read the posts before it. Say something was used as an example but it was not clear in that single message that it was an example.

    Yes but thats not the issue here.

    The big brother thing in my post was a joke since they removed my meme about Alter's moderation almost seeming like it was out of the Big Brother story. Things may get off topic when you have a discussion, that does not mean it has to be deleted as it might still somehow be helpful to the topic that started the discussion. Sometimes going offtopic can help you clear out the discussion and improve ideas. Removing the possibility to go offtopic in threads is almost saying that we are not allowing free speach, you can speak about thing 1 but not about thing 2 since we dont like thing 2 in this thread. It is silly.
    How the hell would I know if I felt my post was important or not to the current discussion if I cant remember what my post exactly was and I have no option to see what I wrote. My days are busy I cannot and will not try to remember every single word I write down.
     
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    How the hell would I know if I felt my post was important or not to the current discussion if I cant remember what my post exactly was and I have no option to see what I wrote.
    Just post according to the rules into the corresponding topics and your posts don't get deleted. It's a little contradiction that you claim your posts to be important, when you don't even make the effort to find the suitable place for that text.
     
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    DukeofRealms

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    I know you like to try and help, but that was the process, and still is the process.
    Unless they removed it, deleted posts/threads show up in red saying who made it, who removed it, and a reasoning. And a Message is sent to the "offending" party (normally automaticalled generated).

    The problem is they don't always follow the rules and do that, as it is possible to removed a post without the auto sending being fired.
    This has never been the case. Unless we're issuing a warning, no automatic PM is sent. What does happen, is an alert is sent to the user which can be used to explain briefly (character limit) why the post was removed.

    I think the reason-giving should happen in a two-part process. The first part would be the short explanation, which would appear at the original location of the deletion (basically what has been happening in the past where it says the reason for deletion after saying who deleted it). The second part would be the detailed explanation, which would occur as a private message to the user explaining in more detail what was wrong with the post and why it was wrong. This detailed explanation could also help the appeal process run more smoothly because the user would then know the exact line of thinking the mod had when the post was deleted and would not need to guess at what the deletion was about.

    It would take a little more time for the mods, but it would likely make things run more smoothly in the long run.
    While this would be nice, in a lot of cases, the first part is only feasible. What tends to happen when threads get derailed is a long chain of offtopic posts are created. It wouldn't help to individually explain in a PM why each post had to be deleted. In these cases, what should happen is a brief post by a moderator saying the thread has been cleaned of offtopic posts and to keep it on track (what would normally happen in almost any other forum).

    If the post has been deleted due to a warning (Tier I and Tier III content only), the user will automatically get a PM anyway.

    A discussion on handling deleted posts has been made previously, here is a brief quote of what I said then:

    A potential solution to my second point that would keep both transparency and threads clean, would be to delete Spam/Off Topic content (and potentially other warnings), but allow user's to see deleted content if they wish (by clicking a button)
    We will likely allow users to see deleted posts, which will address the issue of not knowing what content was removed.

    EDIT:

    What will likely happen

    • Users will be able to see deleted posts.
    • In the case where no automatic PM is sent (no warning issued), a brief explanation as to why the post was removed.
     
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    Nauvran

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    This has never been the case. Unless we're issuing a warning, no automatic PM is sent. What does happen, is an alert is sent to the user which can be used to explain briefly (character limit) why the post was removed.



    While this would be nice, in a lot of cases, the first part is only feasible. What tends to happen when threads get derailed is a long chain of offtopic posts are created. It wouldn't help to individually explain in a PM why each post had to be deleted. In these cases, what should happen is a brief post by a moderator saying the thread has been cleaned of offtopic posts and to keep it on track (what would normally happen in almost any other forum).

    If the post has been deleted due to a warning (Tier I and Tier III content only), the user will automatically get a PM anyway.

    A discussion on handling deleted posts has been made previously, here is a brief quote of what I said then:



    We will likely allow users to see deleted posts, which will address the issue of not knowing what content was removed.

    EDIT:

    What will likely happen

    • Users will be able to see deleted posts.
    • In the case where no automatic PM is sent (no warning issued), a brief explanation as to why the post was removed.
    As long as we can see what we wrote and the reason for the deletion then it's good.
    It's counterproductive to just remove the posts and not give any notifications or reasons, which is what has happened as of late.
     
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    Nauvran

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    Just post according to the rules into the corresponding topics and your posts don't get deleted. It's a little contradiction that you claim your posts to be important, when you don't even make the effort to find the suitable place for that text.
    oh hey look our discussion is slowly going offtopic, would that be a good reason to delete it? NO!
     
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    The problem is they don't always follow the rules and do that, as it is possible to removed a post without the auto sending being fired.
    I've seen that happen in the past. There was a deleted post I saw recently that didn't have a reason for deletion on it, even though a mod deleted it. A lot of it really comes down to diligence and consistency.
     
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    What will likely happen

    • Users will be able to see deleted posts.
    • In the case where no automatic PM is sent (no warning issued), a brief explanation as to why the post was removed.
    This is kind of where something I mentioned previously could come in handy. Instead of allowing soft-deleted derailments to be seen after deletion, you could try creating a function that allows the mods to "collapse" off-topic discussion into a subsection of the thread. Basically, you are scrolling through the thread of comments and you come across an entry that says, "Off-topic comments. 5 contained posts. Click here to expand and view." And then, within that off-topic subsection, the users can continue discussing what they were discussing before without having to sift through relevant posts or going through the pain of getting their posts deleted (whether they can still see them or not). It doesn't necessarily punish derailment, but it mitigates the harm it brings.