Add-on to the planned faction system

[Megacrafter127]

I wasn't referring to type-limits there. The growth rate of this function at a given point X is:

p'(x) = 4*10^(-22) * x^3

+ 5.4 * 10^(-13)* x^2
2* 10^(-9)* x
+ 0.05​

That still is a polynome 3rd grade(might also be known as a cubic function). The growth rate will grow extremely high at one point, and cause and addition of 0.1 mass to result in an addition of multiple billion faction points of the ship's worth.
Polynomes above 2nd grade tend to be bad balancing functions when there is no upper limit on the control variable.

I think you copied the formula wrong. where is your x^4?
But I agree on your last sentence

Ever heard of deriving a function?
If p(x) is a function, then p'(x) is the derivative of said function.

 

[marcus87]

partially true, partially invalid arguments...

A faction has no limits. Player have.

And you could man many ships with the same crew, just not simultaneously.

(Maybe could be RP limited to ships with the same language on alien-interfaces ... ​

I like my idea because it does not look artificial.

The game does not even have to require them on a ship, but instead could also accept them in a maintenance area for the ship on your home-base and ignore how often you are there.
They just have to be ready for the case (which would also let them enable many ships simultaneously without looking artificial or being annoying to a player.)​

In this case, the faction does have a limit. The amount of money it can use on crew. And yes this would mean a faction needed a trasury.
To your second point, that is exactly what I wanted. Maybe I did not discribe correctly.

As for not having them on the ship. I would not like that. Because if you have to have them on your ship. Rooms will become more importand in ships. Maybe get even beds like minecraft for each crewmember. Then you have to build quarters.

But the main reason for my proposal for crew is a limitation on what a faction could bring to battle and a point to start a economy. So in a way you could even have "crew" as an number in the faction stats.

 

[NeonSturm]

Ever heard of deriving a function?
If p(x) is a function, then p'(x) is the derivative of said function.

Wasn't that clear. why did you not explain why you use a derivative of a function?

As for not having them on the ship. I would not like that. Because if you have to have them on your ship. Rooms will become more importand in ships. Maybe get even beds like minecraft for each crewmember. Then you have to build quarters.

Me too, just didn't wanted to piss off peoples which play SM because of PvP or "hate having this annoying NPC getting killed by pulses + missiles all the time and then flip out of our ship on collision or what else".

 

[marcus87]

Do you see the coherence?

I am sorry what do you mean?

 

[NeonSturm]

The game does not even have to require them on a ship, but instead could also accept them in a maintenance area for the ship on your home-base and ignore how often you are there.
They just have to be ready for the case (which would also let them enable many ships simultaneously without looking artificial or being annoying to a player.)

But the main reason for my proposal for crew is a limitation on what a faction could bring to battle and a point to start a economy. So in a way you could even have "crew" as an number in the faction stats.

Do you see the coherence now?

 

[Megacrafter127]

Ever heard of deriving a function?
If p(x) is a function, then p'(x) is the derivative of said function.

Wasn't that clear. why did you not explain why you use a derivative of a function?

The growth rate of this function at a given point X is:

p'(x) = 4*10^(-22) * x^3

+ 5.4 * 10^(-13)* x^2
2* 10^(-9)* x
+ 0.05​

What does a derivative tell you? How fast a function ascends at a given point. When I talk about the growth rate of a function, it is obvious IMO, that I am talking about the values of the derivative of a function.
Why was I talking about a derivative in the first place? Too high values of a balancing function are rarely a problem, but too high/low values of it's derivatives normally are.

(srry of any of these posts seem arrogant, but I am sitting in an overheating room, being annoyed by how slow time passes)

 

[marcus87]

Oh that you mean. Yes I did consede you could have them operate like that, but what is the point then? Then it is just a name, it could be anything. One could do it like this for easy implementation, like a fist step.

Where it was my intention in the beginning and to have them on the ship. I know not everyone likes that but is just an opinion.

 

[ltmauve]

But what would be the effect of loosing crew? clearly having the ship just shut down is a huge annoyance, so it should be that the systems get less efficent. So if you only have 30% of your gunnery points, your guns will jam 35% of the time. If you only have half your engineering crew, your thrust is reduced to half. Systems would lose effectiveness as your crew decreased.

Of course, crew need to be protected by hull first before this is implemented.

Also, crew point categories: (just a proposal)
Engineering: thrust
Shields: Shield regen
Power: Energy regen
Munitions: Onboard weapons
Gunnery: Turrets
Medical: Crew healing
Command: moving the ship, commanding AI squads
Electronic Warfare: cloaking, jamming, and whatever countermeasures are added.
Countermeasures: Defensive effects
Fabrication: Repair speed (Crew repairing do not contribute points to other categories)

You only need points when you are using that system. If I'm not shooting my onboard weapons, I can take my munitions crew and have them repair. Also, crew would get more points in a given category if a) they are already good at it and b) the ship they are on uses that category. I would have to take out my munitions officers and have them shoot at things if I wanted them to level up. I'd have to shoot my crew if I want my medical team to get better. You can also increase the command points a crew can provide by limiting them to one category. So if I tell Lt. Davidson to only be munitions, I'll get extra points in that category, but whatever points he has in other categories won't count.

 

[NeonSturm]

I make a station, put a huge loop around the starting point, remove that one block and tell my gunner to fire at this station.

The gunner will point weapons to this -now empty- centre. And get points?

If he doesn't, how should I lvlup my crew without wasting material?
Or maybe that would be the way you pay for your crew's experience (though I will try it with the cheapest most abundant blocks first! ​

More personalized crew could have:

Member A: 3 E-War, 3 Ammo, 4 Medic, 5 Engineering
Member B: 5 E-War, 4 Ammo, 3 Medic, 3 Engineering

Usually you do

for all ship:members[]:skills[skill]{ skill:demand = available / total-demand }
for all ship:members[member]{ member:demand := 0 += sum of all skills[]:demand }​

But humans are "creatures of habit".

This will not work in big crews unless you have a crew manager computer on-board (logic computers? :D:D)
Probably your crew will hate you for their random "work plans".​

Crew should have accounted a virtual increase in (for example +2 +10% of this/all attributes) to their attribute when they are currently doing something with this attribute required and like what they do.

But it should not affect "available" in { skill:demand = available / total-demand}​

This not only generates more realistic human behaviour, but also stabilizes the system - thus not:

Go there
No there
Well, not there any-more go back to where you should go first.
Hey, not you both! One come back
I said one, not two of you!​

Stations should always have 2 peoples if they can afford that or somebody who can replace anybody.
Humans sometimes have to go to toilet or fail or suddenly need a co-worker (required + optional crew-men per station)...

For a night-shift (or 3 shifts) you double (triple) a stations requirements and then split the crew-men in two (three) groups.


Probably that could be defined in an API (stations[]:requirements[]:skill ...) so that players could use their own Java files now or LUA files later.

Would take work from schema and can be handled like players issuing AI manually client-side.

A simple SMEdit-like Java-AI could be provided as defailt, admins can modify and distribute it (would need auto-download ?) and players could edit them at their own risk (as it is client-side Java/Lua it would not affect others).

However some servers may choose to run AI on server and not allow client-side AI queries/actions (limit those to maybe 3 per second which a player could issue).​

What else did I miss?

 

[ltmauve]

Hah yeah good point about resources. There would probably be some sort of training system, where the crew are busy and they slowly gain in a particular skill, but actual combat does wonders for that.

As for actual "stations" like positions on the bridge I wasn't going so much for those so much as "an NPC is attached to the structure, have ability points"

Also new type of NPC abilty: Countermeasures: Defensive effects.

 

[NeonSturm]

Also new type of NPC abilty: Countermeasures: Defensive effects.

Got me thinking - fun during work is surely good for a crew's mental health ... 2-3 thoughts later (yes I know) Holodeck modules : boost the moral :D *just kidding*

Gardens and a planetary-like micro-environment are much better for a healthy gaming community
((laughing while thinking : Trees, foils, ... boost moral ))


HARDCORE: If you have AI on-board but only mechanics no dedicated scientists, or no dedicated psycho-doctors, AIs may have a chance of getting mentally ill on re-programming :D

 

[ltmauve]

I'm not sure that having crew fatigue is necessarily a good thing. As your fleet grows, you have to spend more and more time managing your crew than you do actually playing. If I only have 2 hours to play during a week, I would want to spend it taking out pirate bases or something, not dealing with crew morale.

 

[NeonSturm]

I'm not sure that having crew fatigue is necessarily a good thing. As your fleet grows, you have to spend more and more time managing your crew than you do actually playing. If I only have 2 hours to play during a week, I would want to spend it taking out pirate bases or something, not dealing with crew morale.

Meant for efficiency min-maxing players.

A small utterly loyalty we-are-family crew wouldn't need that (you wouldn't have many blocks either if you play 2h/w)


There is a thread about loops, lattices, ... my molecule-sub-idea could be used to detect valid trees with some /air/ around, as well as for chairs, beds, ...
Maybe a mod for RP servers.

 

[ltmauve]

People don't always have the same time to play over the course of a year or so. You could build up a large fleet when you have plenty of time, but not have as much time later. Besides, people tire more over tedious things than things that are continuously fresh. If you have to manage your crew every time you log in, you won't feel as engaged as if you didn't.

 

[NeonSturm]

You plant a tree once and the ship manages itself - would be just like the balance between power production and drain.

150% production 100% drain is waste
500% drain 100% production makes some % weapon or thrusters wasted.
100% trees are too many
0% just gives you a tiny pentalty.​

"Family" : the closest 5 NPCs independent on how often you care about them, solely dependent on online time, not real time passed at least.
If you play 2 h/w, you have to manage it every month once. If you play 10h/d you have to manage it once a day. Please don't cry

 

[Ithirahad]

Me too, just didn't wanted to piss off peoples which play SM because of PvP or "hate having this annoying NPC getting killed by pulses + missiles all the time and then flip out of our ship on collision or what else".

It isn't impossible to fix those things, I don't think... Onboard characters, whether player or NPC, shouldn't get hurt until shields drop, and even then, the damage should be a very small (but somewhat randomized) percentage of actual damage...

 

[Nauvran]

The guy who helped me:
To those who said the costs would be too much for much larger ships:
There was a reason why the growth increases like that at those exact points. It both limits the amount of GIANT ships (and puts the server at ease) and most Titans aren't much more than 700.000 mass. (used skylordlukes halo ship as reference)

The function is actually made, so it's still a very reasonable price for smaller ships.