A way to make MASSIVE ships and planets possible and bigger sectors/view distance (poly version)

[Kondroid]

POLY VERSION IDEA​

Now I'm not sure how this would work but I'm pretty sure planets already do this.​

Ships ​

Any ways my Idea is that lets say if ships are more than 1.5km away they turn into a very simple poly shape (for the person looking at the ship of course :p).So when you're finished building your ship you'd have to press a "Activate Ship" Button that would render the ship in poly form (I have no idea how you could do this but it'd be the same as planets right?). This would decrease lag and as a result we can have longer render distances and maybe longer projectile ranges??​

Other Objects​

We could do the same thing for shops, stations everything! I'm really unsure why it hasn't already been suggested or considered (maybe it has, if so please correct me) as a result we could replace the way sectors work and just use have chunks (I'm not sure how it works but I think the universe is split into sectors then chunks right?) and thus have a massive view distance which is what I dream of starmade having, it just doesnt feel right having massive ships yet their attacking distance is 1000m!​

Planets​

Now for bigger planets it's pretty simple, make planets big, after 500m or so its a poly version (sort of like Seed of Andromeda a competitor might I add lol :D )​

My opinion​

I really do think its seriously important we have massive everything else it wouldn't seem like a space game and to me right now it doesn't :/ more like a black room with a couple of toys.

now if everything becomes bigger we will of course need warp drives, bigger gaps between things etc so add your opinions on things like these bellow as well.

Thanks for your time!!
-Kondroid​

 

[Kondroid]

If anyone is wondering what I meant by "poly version" its basically turning the blocks into a straighter shape like this: http://blog.imphenzia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/spaceship-tutorial-first.jpg

 

[ToyotaSupra]

I really liked the poly form functions in games, it often helped performance. But can the game generate them from player made structures, and does that creation itself cost more system resources than just rendering the whole thing? It would likely work with preset items

My idea is that anything should be designed so that the player can set the scaling, like they can do with the planets. While I do agree that planets need to be bigger, they also need to be fixed first (they have a HELL of a lot of issues).

I think planets already are 'poly' in a way in that they are just swirly graphics before approach then the planet renders.

Warp drives are planned.

 

[Lancake]

I'm not sure how exactly this would work correctly with ships and combat but some system to make planets turn in to up to date polys would be nice. We already have a planet shape that gets replaced by actual blocks but the transition is bad and the planet shape is also not scaled well with the actual planet size. an Up to Date poly model of that planet that gradually changes into blocks when you get closer would be a nice feature.

 

[starhaiden]

so you did make a post about this it would be annoying for people with long range weapons

 

[Kondroid]

so you did make a post about this it would be annoying for people with long range weapons

I'm confused...wouldn't it be good for people with long range weapons because they are actually long range.

 

[starhaiden]

can you hit the ships in poly mode

 

[Kondroid]

can you hit the ships in poly mode

Well yes of course (if it's possible)

 

[Kondroid]

I really liked the poly form functions in games, it often helped performance. But can the game generate them from player made structures, and does that creation itself cost more system resources than just rendering the whole thing? It would likely work with preset items

My idea is that anything should be designed so that the player can set the scaling, like they can do with the planets. While I do agree that planets need to be bigger, they also need to be fixed first (they have a HELL of a lot of issues).

I think planets already are 'poly' in a way in that they are just swirly graphics before approach then the planet renders.

Warp drives are planned.

It should be A LOT less performance heavy (although there might be a hiccup,who knows). Think about it this way look at the edges of a block now lets say you have a big ship with flat(ish) sides instead of one side needing about 1000 edges it only needs 4 or so.

 

[der_scheme]

I don't think this would help much, as I don't believe that rendering is the actual bottle neck. When you experience lag when moving towards large structures, this isn't because of physics (which are computation heavy, regardless) or graphics, but simply because I/O (reading it from the disk/transferring it via IP) is expensive.
Also, those planets models are actually static. Proof? Look at an old cookie planet from farther away.

Assuming rendering was so much more expensive, an actual model still wouldn't do much in terms of performane (also, generating them would be expensive, too).

 

[Kondroid]

I don't think this would help much, as I don't believe that rendering is the actual bottle neck. When you experience lag when moving towards large structures, this isn't because of physics (which are computation heavy, regardless) or graphics, but simply because I/O (reading it from the disk/transferring it via IP) is expensive.
Also, those planets models are actually static. Proof? Look at an old cookie planet from farther away.

Assuming rendering was so much more expensive, an actual model still wouldn't do much in terms of performane (also, generating them would be expensive, too).

Then how is something like Seed of Andromeda able to use 1:1 planets....whatever it does we need :/ or else we could be playing catch up soon(well not very soon).

 

[der_scheme]

Then how is something like Seed of Andromeda able to use 1:1 planets....whatever it does we need :/ or else we could be playing catch up soon(well not very soon).

I don't know that game, but from those videos I've seen, I have a bunch of questions... Do they have real physics (like large objects being able to collide), do they have Multiplayer, are you in fact able to explore the whole planet, is the universe infinite, do they have actual weapons (not those Minecraft-style TNT blocks, that just remove some blocks and give a nice particle effect), can you actually build a spaceship, …

Edit: I do by the way think that those height map techniques that they use for their terrain can't be applied to spaceships.

 

[Kondroid]

I don't know that game, but from those videos I've seen, I have a bunch of questions... Do they have real physics (like large objects being able to collide), do they have Multiplayer, are you in fact able to explore the whole planet, is the universe infinite, do they have actual weapons (not those Minecraft-style TNT blocks, that just remove some blocks and give a nice particle effect), can you actually build a spaceship, …

Edit: I do by the way think that those height map techniques that they use for their terrain can't be applied to spaceships.

-You are able to explore the whole planet
-there is lots of physics such as land slides.
-Everything else you said is planned (except for Infinite universe,I'll have to check that)
but anyways we don't know whats actually happening with starmade however I think that it NEEDS badly a bigger scale: bigger ships,planets,distances,sectors (I really want sectors out the window) I might try contact schema when he's not busy and ask him what he thinks.

EDIT:Quick explanation of the game http://www.seedofandromeda.com/thegame

 

[der_scheme]

I read that of course, but there is a large difference between stuff that is planned and stuff that is actually in the game. Everything I've listed makes a difference, as you can always use assumptions about stuff that you can leave out to make code run faster.
Those fluid/sand physics are actually a totally different thing than the physics in SM.

 

[Kondroid]

I read that of course, but there is a large difference between stuff that is planned and stuff that is actually in the game. Everything I've listed makes a difference, as you can always use assumptions about stuff that you can leave out to make code run faster.
Those fluid/sand physics are actually a totally different thing than the physics in SM.

I now the physics are different but I just thought you were interested in all physics because you might think it's more of a tech demo right now.
However it still pulls off the amazing thing of having 1:1 planets :/

 

[Aizria]

Then how is something like Seed of Andromeda able to use 1:1 planets....whatever it does we need :/ or else we could be playing catch up soon(well not very soon).

To be fair, SOA appears to be written in C++, and then compiled to binaries, whereas StarMade is written in Java, then compiled to Java bytecode that is interpreted at run-time. What this means, in essence, is that, from a performance standpoint, there is a lot that SOA can get away with that StarMade might not be able to without requiring some sort of god-computer. Such is the nature of interpreted/byte-compiled languages like Java.

 

[NeonSturm]

It is a common strategy in games to not turn the ship, but the world around it.

If your ship is always at 0 0 0 with a rotation of 0 degree, but other objects are moving around you, players will not clip through the ship at all.
Collision checks will have increased performance because you can optimize against a normal-positioned/rotated object.

Off-course from another point of view, you will rotate and move.
This turned-around-you world is a copy (of the Matrix4x4 or Matrix3x3 objects) made for collision checks etc.


Maybe the engine does not support poly-shapes but to merge 3x3x3 blocks into one?
Or have a double-sided plane for xy, xz, yz axis rendered as a 3D-cross sprite formation?

 

[jath]

I just wanted to point out that by increasing sector size significantly on a server, (EG. factor of 10) My computer can handle the graphic load MUCH easier, and I can see objects from much much farther away. Increasing the speed cap works better with larger sectors as well. The game is much more playable with 10-20 km sectors. Now you just gotta increase the range of weapons.

edit (sorry for being a necro, the forum "recommended" this thread)

 

[Lecic]

Weapon ranges are going to increase in the future when the default sector size is increased. The sector is currently small to make sector transition bugs more obvious.

What would happen when you damage a poly ship?

 

[WaffulMann]

If I read OP's post correctly, the calculations are the same, just the renders are different. So basically if I read OP's post right there will be absolutely no difference except in fps and ship looks.

SUPPOHRT FRUM MI.