A step forward

[Ultragamer2000]

Will NPC factions finaly get people to wake up and stoop turtling in there home system?
Maybe because the enemy NPC fleets will overwhelm thier defences and spawnkill the people in the base, without the base being destroyed
Or will it partialy solve the problem
Or will the AI be so bad that they never come, or fly into a star long before they reach you, etc (lets hope this solution, if it is one, packed a jump drive before the trip)

 

[kurosawa]

the only crisis is people wanting to dictate there play style in the sandbox

 

[Edymnion]

the only crisis is people wanting to dictate there play style in the sandbox

Agreed.
Stop telling other people how they are allowed to enjoy a sandbox game. If you don't like turtling, then don't turtle. Simple as that.

 

[Heillos]

This update won't stop people from turtling because that is symptomatic of a larger issue with the game, in that a party which is overwhelmed or outgunned has no reason to risk itself. Nobody has any good reason to fight, especially those weaker parties this seems to be aimed at.

Also, the above comments.

 

[KiloZulu]

I think that the turtling epidemic is greatly exaggerated. My guess is that the main reason people don't leave their home base is that there is little out in the universe for them to do, thus they hang out at base and build while they wait for that to change. Will the faction changes "fix" that? It will help. I think the more important stuff is yet to come - crews, populated planets, and quests.

 

[StarWars1981]

Once there is something out there besides death and annihilation and lost time .... nobody's going to de-turtle unless they want to claim dozens of systems to claim "victory" in some server's version of conquest. There are PVP servers out there using a conquest victory mechanic to encourage expansion, but on other servers ... there's nothing to do but build and wreck stuff you've built. There's just no point to going out.

So it's not an epidemic - it's just what you can do right now without pointlessly risking (in most cases) all your stuff. There's no reason to go out, so there's no point forcing anybody out.

 

[Lukwan]

I just want to clarify my position on turtles. First...I am a turtle, that's just my style of play. I like to build, I am a home-body and I don't need to prove anything.

I am also totally fine with others who want to turtle. To each their own. Sandbox and all that.

I will occasionally refer to a mechanic that can combat turtling within a related thread. In that context the issue is a MP server that is actively trying to get players to mingle/fight/explore. In this regard 'turtling' is a kind of symptom of server malaise. My old server had success with staging events and contests, ran a bounty board and had 'player-pirates'. All this was done to avoid stagnation. There was no faction war but there were plenty of vendettas and the players were a fun mix of RPers and builders. As many people have already said "give me something to do and a reason to leave my base...and I will.

The vanilla game should never besiege a player to force them out of their shell. There are more effective and proactive methods that work well and many of them are planned to be incorporated in the development process. Turtles are a minor issue at the moment and may be a non-issue when SM matures.

 

[Spoolooni]

Here's a tip on starting a substantial conversation and holding it afterwards. If you're going to make a poll, refrain from "OMG UR SO STUPID WHY DO YOU LIVE (No)" kinds of options, they're just really obnoxious when you're bringing up issues involving game balance.

Secondly, I believe they will partially remedy the problems by rubbing up against huddling players that refuse to leave home base by encouraging the player to deal with them. Though will it remedy turtling entirely? Absolutely not, the players will choose when they want to leave the base in the end under any circumstances unless vulnerability is introduced which would ultimately be, a different discussion. As much as it pains me to say this, Jasper has suggested a rather fruitful method of dealing with turtling and that would be the introduction of vulnerability frames that can be programmed by those who occupy the home-base so you might want to check that out.

 

[kurosawa]

so, is the problem with turtling that you cannot attack them or that they are not leaving there base?

i do not get what the problem is if player iTurtle is fine with camping his base 24/7 why is that a problem?
Why is it assumed, that forcing said player to do something he doesn't want to do a good thing and that it will succeed in anything useful?

 

[Edymnion]

so, is the problem with turtling that you cannot attack them or that they are not leaving there base?

i do not get what the problem is if player iTurtle is fine with camping his base 24/7 why is that a problem?
Why is it assumed, that forcing said player to do something he doesn't want to do a good thing and that it will succeed in anything useful?

Generally when I see this come up, its "I can't blow anybody up because they all sit at home!" types.

Nobody would even notice if you were turtling or not if they weren't actively trying to hunt you down and kill you.

And frankly, if they've got somebody trying that hard to blow up everything they make, there's probably a good reason they're turtling in the first place.

 

[Mr.Steam]

If an NPC faction is hostile and aggressive they will continue to expand and the players may have to fight just to survive. The players will have to work together to keep aggressive NPC's in check. You can turtle in your homebase but eventually you will be forced to flee or fight, otherwise you will be surrounded by hostile NPC's.

Unlike human players the NPC's are never offline, they never stop expanding, they will eventually take over if left unchecked. All uncontested systems will eventually be taken over by some NPC faction. You had better work on having good relations with the NPC factions near you.

EDIT: I foresee AWESOME border wars where you align with one NPC faction to stop another NPC factions growth.

EDIT2: It will be super cool to fly into an area where two NPC factions are fighting for territory. The sectors will load and you can watch the battle in real time and even join a side if you wish. Maybe you will improve relations with a faction by fighting on their side, like in FREELANCER.

 

[Lukwan]

The only legitimate complaint against a turtle is that if they are playing on MP servers they should be interacting with other players. Otherwise, maybe stay home and play SP rather than sucking up resources on that server. Some admin feel that the main purpose of MP is playing with other humans. That's why they put in all the time, effort & money to sustain a public server.

 

[Edymnion]

The only legitimate complaint against a turtle is that if they are playing on MP servers they should be interacting with other players. Otherwise, maybe stay home and play SP rather than sucking up resources on that server. Some admin feel that the main purpose of MP is playing with other humans. That's why they put in all the time, effort & money to sustain a public server.

The fact that they turtle has nothing to do with their interaction (or lack thereof) with other players.

By most people's definitions, I turtle. I stick to one base, I dock everything I'm not actively using, and I only fight pirates.

But I chat with other people, I visit their bases, have them visit mine, buy/sell/trade, I teach them how to build cool things, I get cool ideas in return, I do everything EXCEPT PvP.

Just because somebody isn't out there fighting other players all the time doesn't mean that they're using a MP server "wrong", it just means they are more interested in social aspects of the game.

And frankly, I would rather have a dozen people turtling that like to chat and trade ideas than a single person who picks fights with people and never types a single word in chat.

 

[Batavium]

And frankly, I would rather have a dozen people turtling that like to chat and trade ideas than a single person who picks fights with people and never types a single word in chat.

On the old ingame chat client you didn't have private channels. All chatter was in one channel. It made the server more inter active. People took note of others either in a good or bad way. The end result was more inter action. Others came to the rescue of players under attack or just visited to look at a build being talked about by others. It also helped with game adoption as new players could read what the seasoned players were talking about leeding to many aha moments.

 

[Lukwan]

But I chat with other people, I visit their bases, have them visit mine, buy/sell/trade, I teach them how to build cool things, I get cool ideas in return, I do everything EXCEPT PvP.

Just because somebody isn't out there fighting other players all the time doesn't mean that they're using a MP server "wrong", it just means they are more interested in social aspects of the game.

It sounds like we are on the same page here. I never suggested being a turtle had anything to do with PvP fighting, I was pointing out that interaction is what turtles avoid...and I'll add, context is everything. Your gaming style (and mine) is just another day at the office for a build server and no one would have an issue. On the other hand if I joined server that was dedicated to an ongoing faction-war I would expect to have to join in or tolerate 'visits' from raiders who will blast away at my turtle shell. They will shrug their virtual shoulders and say "hey man it is PvP ya know".

On the old ingame chat client you didn't have private channels. All chatter was in one channel. It made the server more inter active. People took note of others either in a good or bad way. The end result was more inter action. Others came to the rescue of players under attack or just visited to look at a build being talked about by others. It also helped with game adoption as new players could read what the seasoned players were talking about leeding to many aha moments.

This sounds exactly like the casual atmosphere of my old build-server. There was no ongoing war but the admin provided many tournaments, quests etc to spice up the action. Here there were people who essentially lurked. They listened to the chat but did not participate much. When the admin questioned them they said they were content to mostly eavesdrop because they were new players and were learning the game by 'osmosis'.
No one made an issue of it. In fact lurking is not annoying...asking twenty questions an hour is annoying. (google it = ] )