Read by Council a change to navigation mechanic : ship signature secondary scanner function, ship licenses

[El_Poulpy]

Hi everyone i thought it would be neat to choose the informations your ship display with others.

Ship signature

My idea is to have a meta-item the ship signature (a better name could be found) where you parameter the informations to display.

• these information would be :
• the ship name (could be different from the "real" name, the one you put when creating the ship )
• the name of the current pilot
• the faction affiliation (you could only choose between the ship faction affiliation or the character affiliation)

you could have 3 display option :

• always display
• don't display
• display on demand
• choose on demand

the initial parameter would be to display all parameters and the ship name would be the same as the "real" name so it wouldn't change anything to the ones who don't want to mess with it

Imagine you could infiltrate an enemy ship steal the ship signature or make a copy of it. Then put it in an other ship and you would have a ship that would appear to be in the enemy faction : ideal for an infiltration operation
Or imagine in a large battle,a commando board the ship an with the hacking device change the faction affiliation on the ship signature. The others enemy AI ships would think it's an enemy ship and would attack it.

The scanner would have a second function, when you target a ship an launch an active scan you would sent a demand of authentication to the targeted ship.
if the targeted ship signature is set to display on demand the informations would automatically be displayed on radar.
if the targeted ship signature is set to choose on demand the targeted ship pilot would receive a PM he would have to respond in a set time this. When the targeted ship pilot would click respond he would open a message type where there would be a check box for all the choose on demand informations.
if the targeted ship pilot refuse to give the information or doesn't respond the scanning ship would see a ui message(like power failure, etc ...) to indicate it

Ship license

It's an idea i had while watching this thread :

It's a system where you could define role license could make for an interesting game play.
imagine you could define a set of criteria :

• allowed ship system with a limited number of bloc or system/total mass(or number of blocks) ratio,
• forbidden bloc type,
• limited (fixed number or ratio on mass(number of blocks)) storage quantity and type of block to store,
• number/type/ratio crew quarter/total mass(number of blocks),
• number/ ratio on mass(number of blocks) of passenger
• allowed mining ratio

for license profile you could create interesting profile :

• a profile with no weapon allowed = civilian shop
• a profile with no weapon allowed, high salvage system ratio, a large quantity of transported block allowed, and maximum mining ratio = a salvaging ship with a license to mine an the faction territory
• a profile with low weapon ratio, a large quantity of transported block allowed and a list of the allowed type of blocs allowed = a freighter with possibility to be a smuggler by transporting forbidden items
• a profile with low weapon ratio, high crew quarter ratio, high number of passenger = transporter
• a profile with high weapon ratio, two or three cell quarter, two or three passenger = bounty hunter ship

the license could be a meta item you store on a slot in the scanner computer.
To get a license you would dock on a shipyard which would scan your ship and propose a list of purchasable license according to your ship characteristics.

Of course factions could define licenses available on their territories or allowed licenses from other factions

these factions licenses would be meta-item you store on the ship signature item and you could choose display option, between display on demand or choose on demand. When shared the license name would appear under the ship name on the radar and the scanning ship would receive a PM with the license detail.

What do you think of these ideas ? do you see ways of improving it ?

 

[Blobfscrazy]

I like that, it would add more to the game

 

[NeonSturm]

I don't think licenses should be purchased for a fixed cost. A single ship could maybe pay 5% of it's cost into all licensing toward one faction or space-region, else you would scare away newbies.

Could systems in which your actions are illegal be marked red? Or a popup-warning when you first try do an illegal action?

But most importantly: How are you supposed to purchase a mining license with a ship that has 100'000 miners when it's illegal to go into that territory? Is it only legal to visit that shipyard without mined cargo?
Or perhaps there could be outposts which are allowed to be visited?

you could have 3 display option :

• always display
• don't display
• display on demand
• choose on demand

• display on ally demand
• display on ceasefire demand
• display on official command (TG, local militia, nearest faction HB's faction, …)

 

[jgames666]

I really like the idea for ship signatures, but I'm not sure about licenses. Just seems like it would be a pain in game. I do think the idea could be refined into something less annoying. For instance, maybe make faction owned solar systems have customizable rules that the faction can make and players would need to follow to keep from being marked as wanted in that sector. However unless you are able to catch or see them then it doesn't count if they do illegal things. If no one sees you do it, then you do not get marked.

 

[nightrune]

Loving ship signatures. Anything that adds a layer of gameplay besides giant gun and min/maxxing is good in my book. Definitely don't like licenses.

 

[terra mining corp.]

I agree with ship signatures,you could also use this to hack the transporter systems,as for the licences maybe purchasing a charter for different actions ie:different factions could hire mercs,or hire transport ships,and if they get hijacked could set bounties.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

I am really keen on the idea of licensing. It's something that could be off by default but would be a great addition to any RP style servers. I played a lot of EV-Nova and the Federation required licenses for just about everything. If you had missiles on your ship without the missile license, you died. If you slapped cheap armor on without protective license, they killed you. It is an interesting idea that can be ignored or expanded on so much. You could set up factions that require licenses and others that don't. Scanners can be expanded to scan cargo and check to see if a ship is hulling regulated goods.

 

[NeonSturm]

But how are you supposed to get a missile license from an outpost inside factioned territory if you have installed missiles before visiting this territory?

Can you use 1 ship to purchase a license for another? Can you transfer licenses? Are they bound to a player or ship? If bound to a ship, how would you use one ship to purchase for another? How can you let a shipyard scan if you need to fly this ship (illegally without license jet) to the shipyard?
​

I like licenses, but there needs to be a solid idea (and they shouldn't prefer large factions or old players over small ones or newly joined - or otherwise widen the gap)

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

But how are you supposed to get a missile license from an outpost inside factioned territory if you have installed missiles before visiting this territory?

Can you use 1 ship to purchase a license for another? Can you transfer licenses? Are they bound to a player or ship? If bound to a ship, how would you use one ship to purchase for another? How can you let a shipyard scan if you need to fly this ship (illegally without license jet) to the shipyard?
​

I like licenses, but there needs to be a solid idea (and they shouldn't prefer large factions or old players over small ones or newly joined - or otherwise widen the gap)

The way I was thinking about it the license would be a meta item, basically bound to the player as long as you don't loose it. Flying a ship with banned materials/configurations would be a risk when you fly into faction controlled territory. Of course a faction ship would have to scan you first. This action could have limited range and not just "You entered our space with missiles, prepare to die" the moment you cross the border. It certainly does need expanding.

 

[Shaker]

Signature idea is good, id add another option so you can display to faction only. Having a 3rd name may be to much though for starmade.

License not so much, it was talked about before. It limits players building, restricts players to classes which is what the devs have said they never wanted to do

 

[NeonSturm]

The way I was thinking about it the license would be a meta item, basically bound to the player as long as you don't loose it. Flying a ship with banned materials/configurations would be a risk when you fly into faction controlled territory.

You cannot legally use a single heavy Battleship. But you can use enough lighter Warships to beat one?
Maybe count player-assets together … this allows more freedom with building too (there is not so much restriction in whether you can bring 4 or 5 with you than it is in limiting size of each ship)

Yeah, it really needs more work.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

You cannot legally use a single heavy Battleship. But you can use enough lighter Warships to beat one?
Maybe count player-assets together … this allows more freedom with building too (there is not so much restriction in whether you can bring 4 or 5 with you than it is in limiting size of each ship)

Yeah, it really needs more work.

Yeah, I think my exact ideas regarding licensing is quite different so I probably should create it's own thread and not derail this one.

 

[El_Poulpy]

hi everybody thanks for your replies.

The ship license system I'm talking about is an advance tool to help factions enforce territory monitoring.
With the crew management and AI improvement It's likely that there will be factions that would want to monitor the territory and that will dedicate AI ship to patrol in their territory. The license system permit to facilitate this by giving a decision criteria to the ai patrolling ship : does the ship they found has a valid license : yes/no

I heard there will be tool for fleet management. Imagine if in one of those tool you have a map where you can define your AI ship behavior depending on the sectors/system they are in.

imagine this is a faction territory. I have set my AI ship to have different behavior toward not licensed ships:

• in the green area : the ai ship send a message asking to go on a shipyard to get registered (the violet points: the shipyards i have built in the border of my territory so people with unregistered 100 000 miner or heavy missiles launchers can go get a license without risking to get kill on sight )
• in the yellow area : the ai ship gently order you to follow them and escort you to a registration shipyard.
• in the orange area : the ai ship order you to go to a registration shipyard or you get killed
• in the red area : the ai ship kill you on sight.

My AI ship could also have a behavior depending on the license of the ship they encounter :

• restrict/forbid sectors to ship with certain license (you have a destroyer, you can go in void space but don't get near any of my planets)
• send a log message to the fleet commander if you want to monitor certain type of ships (registered destroyer flying in sector 1,2,3) it could help find someone trying to discretely assemble a fleet in your territory to attack you.

The main NPC factions probably wouldn't use it :
Trade guild policy : While you don't touch our assets we don't care
scavenger policy : die motherf***er
outcast -> nomad -> no territory -> no territory control

This is a tool to be used by players faction that want to rule space traffic on their territory and maybe for some minor NPC faction that will eventually populate the galaxy.

My idea concerning the license is that it would be a meta item you store on the ship signature meta item (because with the ship signature meta item you decide to display or not these informations). you purchase it and bound it to a ship (and an owner ?) in a shipyard. Depending on how the faction parameter the license price it would work differently.

• If it a fixed cost, you buy your license once and you can bound it to the ship by going to a shipyard, every shipyard works.
• If it's a variable cost it's more complex because the license price depend on your ship so you have to go to a faction shipyard that deliver license to refresh your license and bound it to a new ship and so pay the price difference

Blobfscrazy thanks

NeonSturm if you are a faction leader that have the power to rule a space you would be clever enough to put the registrations shipyards in your borders sectors and you don't generally appear in the middle of a faction territory so the risks should be limited. By the way i didn't thought about display option depending on the faction affiliation, i will add it to the main post.

nightrune could you elaborate on why you don't like the license idea ? it could help improve it

@igame666 maybe it's not clear enough in my first post the ship license is the result of the customization rules the faction put in place (when they define the licenses) and the licenses are the proof that you are following these rules

terra mining corp. do you mean a license that could work for different use ? If it's the case, it can be done with the license system i propose, it depend on how you define your license profile.

@Sven_the_Slavyer before creating a new thread you may post your idea here, maybe it could improve and complete the current one or replace it .


Shaker if you don't go on faction that strictly monitor their space you are not concerned by licenses so you are not limited in your building creativity. And you may understand that if you want to go on my territory i would prefer you don't come with a doomsday titan that can annihilate me, i would be nervous.


I know i'm not the best when explaining so don't hesitate to ask for clarifications or post criticisms. I hope my answer responded to all yours questions, and that you will continue to help fleshing out these ideas.

 

[NeonSturm]

I have thought about that myself, but it will be more complex than that.

1. Sectors are cubic, but not your faction territory –
– just imagine gates between blue stars, competition sectors or a market place and your territory!

2. You have to encounter a patrol. Will the patrol be omnipresent …
… or do we need an UI to divide them evenly at borders and not make them suicide 1by1 at a dreadnought violating your rules?

3. Green, yellow and orange needs to be at least 1 jump-range thick.
It also makes it harder to have drones that cover all this space.

n= "border length" in "number jumps" of the Green area.
m= "border length" in "number jumps" of the Red area.
drones= needed drones. Divide by 8 for 2 jumps, by (8*8) again for 4 jumps and by (8*8*4) for 8 jumps installed on the drone (( 4 because when jumps exceed the number of borders, you can only count area, not volume )).

_m | _n | drones = +m^3 -n^3 = (( +m^3 -(m-2* "border count")^3 for m>=8 ))
–– | –– | ––––––––––––––– | drones with 2 jumps | drones with 4 jumps | drones with 8 jumps
_8 | _0 | 512 = +512 -0 _____| __64 | __8 | _2
10 | _2 | 992 = +1000 -8 ____ | _124 | _16 | _4
12 | _4 | 1664 = +1728 -64 ___| _208 | _26 | _7
14 | _6 | 2528 = +2744 -216 __| _316 | _40 | 10
16 | _8 | 3584 = +4096 -512 __| _448 | _56 | 14
18 | 10 | 4832 = +5832 -1000 _| _604 | _66 | 17
Note: the last 3 columns are inaccurate - Expect to need 15% more or less depending on distribution logic.

​

4. Conclusions:
This table shows that you need 4 or 8 jump drives installed to reasonable cover these 4 boundaries.

=> This means that there needs to be a warning when you enter foreign territory that you shouldn't jump into the restricted sectors.
=> You shouldn't receive an escort instantly, but only if you disobey the warnings from a long-range scanner station.
Because until a drone jumps 4 times to reach the player, the player could jump deeper into that territory –
– The drone is then out of jumps and has lost the player. Also the player enters the core area without ever seeing a guard because they jumped into the opposite direction when a player jumped.

5. Final conclusion:
The interceptors or detectors need to to cover an area of 4x4x4 or 8x8x4 jumps.
Or you need 16/64 times as many entities guarding 4x4 / 8x8 and again a few times as many (2x or 4x) to replace the drones following a player.

 

[El_Poulpy]

NeonSturm we are digressing there. Your post doesn't deal with the license system but with border control and organisation. I Like the calcul for the drone needed.

For the warning message it could be done by a net of little space stations which send custom message, there where a recent suggestion about extending use of the scanner to sent messages.

Your question in dot 2 concern IA improvement and fleet management.