Recognized by Council Invisible, Intangible Rail Dockers

terra mining corp. · Apr 7, 2016

FlyingDebris said:
Paraphrasing Master_Artificer,

"If they don't want to fight, why are they not in singleplayer or a private server?"

And this is why I play in single player mode,us newb cubers don't stand a chance! :eek:

Edymnion · Apr 7, 2016

Lecic said:
Then maybe take it up with the admins? And not ruin boarding?

Maybe not let PvP ruin PvE?

Just because you don't want people actually being allowed to use their home base invincibility doesn't mean you get to veto anything and everything that makes using a station of any kind easier.

Sven_The_Slayer · Apr 7, 2016

Lecic said:
Then maybe take it up with the admins? And not ruin boarding?

Your gripe seems much more about home-base invincibility than with this docker specifically. Dockers can be hidden, ships can have multiple dockers. I don't really see how the addition of this one block is going to destabilize boarding that much. If your ship is boarded and they have build inhibitors and all your rail dockers are shot off as long as your ship is large enough you can probably still simply slap down another rail docker someplace else and dock to your station.

Lecic · Apr 7, 2016

Edymnion said:
Maybe not let PvP ruin PvE?

Just because you don't want people actually being allowed to use their home base invincibility doesn't mean you get to veto anything and everything that makes using a station of any kind easier.

Do you want Stop and JDIs to be removed as well? Because you can't do something like, I dunno, hook up a warpgate between you and your friend's homebases, or take a permacloak chain jumper when you go visit, or just accept that PvP on a PvP server isn't griefing?

Edymnion · Apr 7, 2016

Lecic said:
Do you want Stop and JDIs to be removed as well? Because you can't do something like, I dunno, hook up a warpgate between you and your friend's homebases, or take a permacloak chain jumper when you go visit, or just accept that PvP on a PvP server isn't griefing?

But you're not talking about attacking people out in open space. You're talking about specifically disabling a player's ability to run home and dock to escape a fight they don't want to be in in the first place.

But you know what, I'm done with this part. You voiced your opinion on the topic, lets not derail it with pvp vs. griefer debating. We've been over this a half dozen times before, and its clear neither of us are going to change the mind of the other, so can we just shake hands and say agree to disagree?

Lecic · Apr 7, 2016

Sven_The_Slayer said:
Your gripe seems much more about home-base invincibility than with this docker specifically. Dockers can be hidden, ships can have multiple dockers. I don't really see how the addition of this one block is going to destabilize boarding that much. If your ship is boarded and they have build inhibitors and all your rail dockers are shot off as long as your ship is large enough you can probably still simply slap down another rail docker someplace else and dock to your station.

I expected one of the handful of councilors who actually does any PvP to, well... know a little bit more about PvP? This is just sad. No, the problem is not homebase invulnerability. The problem is that this suggestion makes it so boarders have no way to prevent a player from fleeing from combat by sawing their dockers off, which, by the way, people rarely have spares of on their person or even on the ship itself. As if boarding wasn't already hard enough.

Master_Artificer · Apr 7, 2016

Their might not be any more PvE servers because their is no satisfying PvE in this game as of yet.

And once again, I feel like this is not the solution to the problem at hand.
Removing stop effects and jump inhibitors would be a much better way of fixing Edymnion 's problem.

Lecic · Apr 7, 2016

Edymnion said:
But you're not talking about attacking people out in open space. You're talking about specifically disabling a player's ability to run home and dock to escape a fight they don't want to be in in the first place.

But you know what, I'm done with this part. You voiced your opinion on the topic, lets not derail it with pvp vs. griefer debating. We've been over this a half dozen times before, and its clear neither of us are going to change the mind of the other, so can we just shake hands and say agree to disagree?

You can't board someone in open space? Uh... 'k. It's all the same, dude. You can say exactly the same thing about stop and inhib.

FlyingDebris · Apr 7, 2016

If rail dockers were destroyable and invisible, the potential for abuse would be huge.

StarWars1981 · Apr 7, 2016

This thread is about the possibility of including an invisible, intangible (cannot be touched - probably should also be cannot be destroyed, but lol, SAME DIFFERENCE in a space battle xD) rail docker. I think it's a neat idea; being able to reliably and securely "hover" a ship above a field of some kind would look cool, and this without relying on some clipping-machine of a floating rail block. At the same time, the potential for abusing it is large. I guarantee there's some kind of stupid clipping exploit that can be made out of it, and I bet I could find a way to use a frigate as a baseball bat, given enough time and rail mass enhancers on a rail rotator ... now I want to build it.
But honestly, I think the rail docker satisfies all the needs, despite the occasional necessity for a reworked docking port, or a one-block-wide suicide path to get place to place, or a docker hanging in space. It's easy enough to work around, however.
On a PvP server, you can expect to be PvP'd. You can also expect people to respect you, given that most players are not going to be out for blood on small runabout trading ships or personal transports that new, RP'ing, or just visiting players happen to run around in. Those who are after them... well, some people are just gonna do that. Just get a jumper, keep it charged, and when trouble threatens... click away. Reload jumper, repeat process. I'd love to see you track a jumped ship. I'd love it. Unless, of course, the pilot is foolish enough to let you do a stern chase, and then jump in a straight line. In which case... his problem.

Zyrr · Apr 7, 2016

Boarding is hard, here's an example of it going wrong starring our own Lecic

Edymnion said:
Because apparently people are griefing with the current system.

Edymnion said:
You're cutting off their dockers so that people who are so desperate not to fight you that they run all the way back to their home station to try and dock to get you to stop can't dock just so you can steal/destroy their ship.

Somebody turtling in their home base doesn't want to fight you. Period, end of story. No means no, go away and leave them alone.

Removing their ability to save their ship just because you decided that they shouldn't be able to use the strongest anti-griefer measure in the game is just... I don't know a better word to describe it.
[DOUBLEPOST=1459983457,1459983289][/DOUBLEPOST]Honestly upon hearing this, I'd be all for extending home base protection to the entire damned sector.

Edymnion said:
Maybe not let PvP ruin PvE?

Just because you don't want people actually being allowed to use their home base invincibility doesn't mean you get to veto anything and everything that makes using a station of any kind easier.

Edymnion said:
But you're not talking about attacking people out in open space. You're talking about specifically disabling a player's ability to run home and dock to escape a fight they don't want to be in in the first place.

Every time you post I die a little bit inside.

This is the second time I've had to say that today.

Winterhome · Apr 7, 2016

If you're on a PVP-friendly server, then you consent to getting killed every time you undock from your homebase. Simple as that.

It's not "griefing" if it's the entire point of the server - and we don't need features that damage a given playstyle's viability in the environment in which it is supposed to exist.

FlyingDebris · Apr 7, 2016

Ed, it sounds like you want a creative server without the creative mode. Unfortunately, such a server does not exist. The closest you'll come is the PvE galaxy on GenXNova, but that's about it afaik. That said, I'd rather one or two people's complaint not result in something getting screwed up for everyone else. It's actually one of the ways the old docking system got screwed up.

Valck · Apr 7, 2016

Lecic said:
I expected one of the handful of councilors who actually does any PvP to, well... know a little bit more about PvP? This is just sad. No, the problem is not homebase invulnerability. The problem is that this suggestion makes it so boarders have no way to prevent a player from fleeing from combat by sawing their dockers off, which, by the way, people rarely have spares of on their person or even on the ship itself. As if boarding wasn't already hard enough.

Seriously, you need to calm down a bit.
This suggestion was certainly not intended to finally give those evil non-PvP griefers a way to evade being boarded by legit PvPers.

If it may be used to that effect - which I seriously doubt to help very much - then that is a side effect that can be discussed in a civil manner, without having to lash out against everyone who found the old docking system had its benefits, too, and is looking to find ways to bring more functionality to the rail system.

FlyingDebris · Apr 7, 2016

what

No seriously I'm confused as to which point you're trying to argue here.

Nauvran · Apr 7, 2016

Edymnion said:
Ever since we switched to rails and dockers, actually docking a ship has become far more painful than it really needs to be. In ye olden times, the docking beam came from the core so you could always see it, and docking would simply position the core over the docker. If the ship had extra bits below the rest of the hull it would just sit down as far as it could and call it done. The two block did not have to physically touch.

Now you have to make sure of where the docker is, if you've got any bits sticking too far out or else it can't move, and you have to build the dock and the ship in such a way as to where you can easily both see the docking beam to hit the dock and be able to pilot the ship out of the dock because you now have a physical barrier in the way.

Proposal for a solution? Make the rail docker invisible and intangible, like the rail pickup blocks.

You can now put the rail docker outside of your hull, free floating in space where it becomes much easier to position in such a way to allow for easy docking. Its invisible so you don't see it while flying around, and being intangible means it will pass through the dock easily, meaning you don't have to fiddle with having to extract it from a tight space.

It also means the we can put the docker on the very outside edge of our ship's bounding box no matter what the design is, which can help reduce lag from collision checks if the bounding box of the ship and station don't have to overlap in order to get the docker that is built into the hull into position.

Old docking good? my ass it was good. The old docking system was one of the most horrible things in the game.
"oh you wanted to dock that big nice ship of yours? well to fucking bad, here have an error instead that says the dockign area isnt big enough"
"oh you want to dock there, well fuck you, you dont have enough room"
"oh you accidently placed your core in a stupid place around the front of back? well fuck you even more, docking is not impossible"

Yeah old docking was wonderful, it really didn't lock your creativity, it's not like it's much easier now to make proper docks and even be more creative since you can define where your entity touches the other entity. And if you have problems with bits sticking out then just move the damn docker, now that's something you were not able to do with the old system.

The only big problem with the current docking method is that we don't have the fancy thing where the docking beam originated from the camera instead of the docking point. And the docking beam is stupidly short.

And if you have such a hard time docking your shit you should probably start thinking about how your build it, or take it as a proper builder and fix it so it fits.

CyberTao · Apr 7, 2016

This thread is a mess.

Edymnion · Apr 7, 2016

Master_Artificer said:
Removing stop effects and jump inhibitors would be a much better way of fixing Edymnion 's problem.

Um, how exactly does that make docking odd shaped ships easier again, exactly?

Which, despite the efforts of some, is the actual purpose of this thread? To make it so you can dock things easily without having to custom build the ship to match the station dock, or vice versa?
[DOUBLEPOST=1460058149,1460057581][/DOUBLEPOST]

Nauvran said:
Old docking good? my ass it was good.

Did I say everything about the old system was good? No.
Did I say we should go back to the old system? No.
But thanks for trying.

Zyrr · Apr 7, 2016

Edymnion said:
But thanks for trying.

You're a cheeky little bastard, aren't you?

Nauvran · Apr 7, 2016

Edymnion said:
Um, how exactly does that make docking odd shaped ships easier again, exactly?

Which, despite the efforts of some, is the actual purpose of this thread? To make it so you can dock things easily without having to custom build the ship to match the station dock, or vice versa?
[DOUBLEPOST=1460058149,1460057581][/DOUBLEPOST]
Did I say everything about the old system was good? No.
Did I say we should go back to the old system? No.
But thanks for trying.

so you didnt read the rest of it that was meant to the first part of your original post?

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Recognized by Council Invisible, Intangible Rail Dockers

terra mining corp.

Edymnion

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Sven_The_Slayer

Lecic

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Edymnion

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Lecic

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Master_Artificer

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Lecic

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FlyingDebris

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StarWars1981

Zyrr

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Winterhome

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FlyingDebris

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Valck

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Nauvran

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CyberTao

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Edymnion

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