Shops...

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    I am having issues with the shops.

    1. Security will not stay where i put it. i set it to faction only, when i come back, it's back to all.

    2. Changing prices need to be more stream lined, going from item to item is a pain. there needs to be an option where several items can be changed at once.
     
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    I think that since all items have a pre-set price, giving a shop a modifier of "+50%" or "-25%" would be great. It would be even better to apply rate changes to either: (1) the whole shop, (2) a drop-down group (weapons/effect/hull/factory etc) (3) particular factions, and/or (4) particular people.
     
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    I dont know if this is a bug or what but i was able to make 9 mil in a few minutes buying weapon computers at one shop for 10k and selling them at a near by shop for 70% more. Every thing in this particular shop was priced 70% higher than the other. And buy or selling is the same price. Seems like a super cheap way to make money, shouldnt all shops have the same prices? Was this maybe just a problem with the settings of this particular server?
     
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    I dont know if this is a bug or what but i was able to make 9 mil in a few minutes buying weapon computers at one shop for 10k and selling them at a near by shop for 70% more. Every thing in this particular shop was priced 70% higher than the other. And buy or selling is the same price. Seems like a super cheap way to make money, shouldnt all shops have the same prices? Was this maybe just a problem with the settings of this particular server?
    You're just an awesome space-trader. =)
     

    jayman38

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    I dont know if this is a bug or what but i was able to make 9 mil in a few minutes buying weapon computers at one shop for 10k and selling them at a near by shop for 70% more. Every thing in this particular shop was priced 70% higher than the other. And buy or selling is the same price. Seems like a super cheap way to make money, shouldnt all shops have the same prices? Was this maybe just a problem with the settings of this particular server?
    It's not really a bug. At this stage, the devs want the player testers to get to end-game state as quickly as possible to push the limits of the game to find where it breaks. Later on, these price discrepancies will probably be greatly reduced, and such profit opportunities will only come around in quests, if then.

    The counter balance now is that eventually, the shop you are selling to will fill up on items and won't buy anymore. Also, unless another player buys up some of those items, the shop never gets rid of its items. I think the per-item cap at shops currently sits at the value of 100,000.
     

    CyberTao

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    It's not really a bug. At this stage, the devs want the player testers to get to end-game state as quickly as possible to push the limits of the game to find where it breaks. Later on, these price discrepancies will probably be greatly reduced, and such profit opportunities will only come around in quests, if then.

    The counter balance now is that eventually, the shop you are selling to will fill up on items and won't buy anymore. Also, unless another player buys up some of those items, the shop never gets rid of its items. I think the per-item cap at shops currently sits at the value of 100,000.
    Testers could also use admin commands to speed things up, and it was reduced in the last set of patches to be less severe.
    It's an early attempt at supply/demand that will probably be replaced with something better someday.
     
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    I am having issues with the shops.

    1. Security will not stay where i put it. i set it to faction only, when i come back, it's back to all.

    2. Changing prices need to be more stream lined, going from item to item is a pain. there needs to be an option where several items can be changed at once.
    These are crippling issues for player-owned shops, but most community members are not interested in resolving them. I'm guessing because most players have been using their player shops as building-storage so long they don't even remember that the purpose of shops is commerce.

    I launched a thread on exactly these same issues 2-3 days ago and all I got was flak over proposing remediation. No one has any good ideas on ways to repair them except for the devs to "fix" them, and the priority is just so low that we probably won't see any work on them for a long time.
     
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    I dont know if this is a bug or what but i was able to make 9 mil in a few minutes buying weapon computers at one shop for 10k and selling them at a near by shop for 70% more. Every thing in this particular shop was priced 70% higher than the other. And buy or selling is the same price. Seems like a super cheap way to make money, shouldnt all shops have the same prices? Was this maybe just a problem with the settings of this particular server?
    Old innocent exploit. Servers should have the ability to stop ez trading now. Cool idea to trade between shops as a happy merchant, but just too easy with jump drives. http://bugs.star-made.org/issues/1613

     
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    Old innocent exploit. Servers should have the ability to stop ez trading now. Cool idea to trade between shops as a happy merchant, but just too easy with jump drives. http://bugs.star-made.org/issues/1613
    Trade between AI shops is mostly nerfed. There is a way for player shops to be set up to create trade jobs while still profiting the shop owner, but there aren't many traders out there. Of course the best use use for resources is crafting them yourself, but I've noticed a percentage of players seem to dislike using factories.

    AI shops typically pay c1 for raw mineral (i.e. Dolom), and c30 for the carved versions of the same minerals. So if a player with a station housing a decent enhanced factory sets their shop to pay c2 for the raw mineral, and c15 (for example) for the carved mineral it creates excellent trade potential.

    First, any miner with no game experience can swing by the player station and easily earn double or triple on dumping minerals (this is even more appealing if the shop is also offering to buy ore and crystal above market - say c110-c120).

    Second, any trader with no experience can swing by and buy carved mineral for c15 (more or less), jump off and sell it for double. So for the effort of taking raw mineral, dumping it in a 5K/cycle factory, then giving it back to the shop the shop owner makes 700%, the miner makes 200%, and the trader makes 200%. And prices can be adjusted to better reward miners and traders for visiting your shop. This technique applies to other raw/refined combinations as well, but raw/carved mineral is a simplest example.

    Third, pricing refined goods substantially below what the AI shops pay to encourage trading as another advantage even in a larger faction that mostly crafts its own goods. Defense stations get blown up and you can never craft enough shield caps, so credit income is always necessary. But with 2-3 active miners it only takes a few days to a week to saturate every shop within a single jump so that selling carved minerals and refined goods becomes a more tedious task. Same for hunting around shopping for more shield caps. A trader can make a lot of money selling players raw resources & shield caps, while buying player refined goods and reselling those to shops. Thats two-way profit. The profit potential with just 2-3 player shops running this way is even better than mining, and it provides a useful service - offloading craft goods for credits even when you have to make 10 jumps to find enough shops to sell it all.

    All this works with shops as they are, but hinges on players learning how to set up shops in the first place - which is not an intuitive process currently. Because just placing a shop and dumping goods and money into it without going through and re-pricing every single item the shop carries is going to simply buy shop owners tens of millions of random blocks from whoever wants to dump them on you (Threns Ingots & flower, anyone??). It also pre-supposes the shop owners knowing ahead of time that they can't set the buy/sell prices to stay different, and instead focus on buying raw resources above market and selling refined goods below market while still preserving a margin of profit.
     
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    I can't really suggest a fix to shops because I think that NPC AI and factions need an overhaul first (more of them, ability to own Systems, and more ships flying around). Then we can fix shops to fit into the better Trader Faction system, and talk about prices between faction stores, etc.

    I don't see a lot of player shops on the servers I frequent, probably because there are so many NPC shops and the shops nearest to Spawn are infinite.
     
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    I can't really suggest a fix to shops because I think that NPC AI and factions need an overhaul first (more of them, ability to own Systems, and more ships flying around). Then we can fix shops to fit into the better Trader Faction system, and talk about prices between faction stores, etc.

    I don't see a lot of player shops on the servers I frequent, probably because there are so many NPC shops and the shops nearest to Spawn are infinite.
    You don't see them because they are broken, who wants to put 100m credit in when someone can sell you 50k dirt. rock, etc(something no one would ever buy)for what you can buy it at the shop, there is no profit in it. Once shops are fixed you will see more user shops vs ai. And in mikes server there aren't many shops you have at the most 5 in a system, and normally there is none, also the shops don't restock items on mikes server.
    I do agree that factions need work, i was in a faction where a 3rd ranking member some how took over the entire home faction, and all the mega ships and put it in a new faction. I was same rank and tested all way he might have done it (destroy faction block, change home to another station, etc). I have no idea how he did it, well i do have one idea, a 4th rank who had the power helped and remained silent.
     
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    I dont know if this is a bug or what but i was able to make 9 mil in a few minutes buying weapon computers at one shop for 10k and selling them at a near by shop for 70% more. Every thing in this particular shop was priced 70% higher than the other. And buy or selling is the same price. Seems like a super cheap way to make money, shouldnt all shops have the same prices? Was this maybe just a problem with the settings of this particular server?
    We here at Wall Street call it "quite an average deal".
     
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    I can't really suggest a fix to shops because I think that NPC AI and factions need an overhaul first (more of them, ability to own Systems, and more ships flying around). Then we can fix shops to fit into the better Trader Faction system, and talk about prices between faction stores, etc.

    I don't see a lot of player shops on the servers I frequent, probably because there are so many NPC shops and the shops nearest to Spawn are infinite.
    Yep - the entire economy needs an overhaul based on a coherent global plan.

    It doesn't even matter if there are infinitely stocked shops around spawn. A player can sell goods for substantially less than NPC shops and still make money through mining, refining, and manufacturing. And it's still worth it for industrial factions to market goods because not everyone wants to scour the galaxy trying to sell junk to NPC shops, so even getting 50% on the millions of items you can churn out after a couple good hours mining is a win. It would be a win for players who wanted to just fight and skip the mining/crafting as well because they would be getting everything cheaper. Price competition between player shops would ensure that. Functional shops - especially with expanded or expandable capacity beyond 50K/item - would make shipbuilding more straightforward for everyone.

    Imagine as a builder not needing to visit 10 shops just to collect the 1/4 million assorted standard armor blocks you need to spawn a blueprint. Imagine being able to get that at one location for less credits than the NPCs charge. Imagine as a miner not being forced to fly around the galaxy to collect money on your work. Imagine being able to turn a fair profit from just trade; unloading PC goods to farther afield NPC shops and exploiting price wars between producers (a profitable gig that helps keep the market balanced). "Imagine all the people... "

    So if all the NPC shops had infinite capacity, player shops would still improve the game by easing commerce and enabling various different careers for players to have fun with. But player shops are broken, so mining, manufacturing, shipbuilding, and trade are ALL essentially crippled. Shops can be placed by players, but they seem to be entirely conceived around an economy where all resources come from an invisible, infinite stockpile in the 'Trade Guild Dimension', and are very difficult to bend to any player purposes for any career path.
     
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    Yep - the entire economy needs an overhaul based on a coherent global plan.

    It doesn't even matter if there are infinitely stocked shops around spawn. A player can sell goods for substantially less than NPC shops and still make money through mining, refining, and manufacturing. And it's still worth it for industrial factions to market goods because not everyone wants to scour the galaxy trying to sell junk to NPC shops, so even getting 50% on the millions of items you can churn out after a couple good hours mining is a win. It would be a win for players who wanted to just fight and skip the mining/crafting as well because they would be getting everything cheaper. Price competition between player shops would ensure that. Functional shops - especially with expanded or expandable capacity beyond 50K/item - would make shipbuilding more straightforward for everyone.

    Imagine as a builder not needing to visit 10 shops just to collect the 1/4 million assorted standard armor blocks you need to spawn a blueprint. Imagine being able to get that at one location for less credits than the NPCs charge. Imagine as a miner not being forced to fly around the galaxy to collect money on your work. Imagine being able to turn a fair profit from just trade; unloading PC goods to farther afield NPC shops and exploiting price wars between producers (a profitable gig that helps keep the market balanced). "Imagine all the people... "

    So if all the NPC shops had infinite capacity, player shops would still improve the game by easing commerce and enabling various different careers for players to have fun with. But player shops are broken, so mining, manufacturing, shipbuilding, and trade are ALL essentially crippled. Shops can be placed by players, but they seem to be entirely conceived around an economy where all resources come from an invisible, infinite stockpile in the 'Trade Guild Dimension', and are very difficult to bend to any player purposes for any career path.
    Depending on the server, such as mikes server, shops don't replenish items, just credits, and not a lot at that maybe 1 mil at a time.
     
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    Bumping this topic. DEVS, please fix the shops already. We cant do any secure tasks,.....Sorry just frustrated and feeling ignored......