Next generation: Advanced carriers

[jzimmerman4]

Lets say my carrier launches one ship every 5 seconds when I hit that button. It has 19 docks so it will take 190 delay blocks to achieve this. It would have to do this in a specific order, and it would have to clear the runway first, then launch the 12 ships in the hanger. When docking again I cannot simply reverse this order so I would need an entire second set of delays to land each ship not to mention all the beacons to guide this entire process. If a ship that is told to land doesn't do so in the appropriate time frame you potentially have collisions and all other sorts of anarchy, some ships getting to their designated docks before hand, the AI will have to know how to line themselves up with the rear of my carrier, my carrier also can carry multiple sized ships so each ship has to dock exactly where it departed from so the specific ships have to be assigned to specific docks.

Each ship would probably only need one or two seconds to detach from its dock and move to a beacon so you wouldn't need that many delay blocks. Also you can attach different sections of your hanger to multiple logic blocks, allowing for you to release part of your docked ships at once, which would eliminate clutter if you were smart about it. Why dont you think that it cant reverse the order? Because if the ship in the back of the hanger is last to go, then it would be the first to return. Also, you would only need 10-15 beacons max if you put them in smart places. Ill make some diagrams once I have time.

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

I think all these beacon ideas just overcomplicate it. The pathfinding will be improved (right now it's so dumb it doesn't even know to fly up in gravity, which is why planets are pirate magnets), and it needs to be anyways to make pathfinding between beacons sane (unless you want to have a "must have ship's size of open air/plex door between beacons" rule, which I suspect would still lead to clipping problems since the AI would have trouble turning and dealing with inertia). Plex doors would also probably be handled by just clipping through them with a beacon system, since that would be extra pathfinding work to make the ship activate them.

 

[DarthHonky]

Added my AI exiting and entering to the OP.


My only problem with this is that AI ships would start flying out of the sides of ships. However, if clipping is only enabled while an AI is using the beacons, that would be a good way to reduce lag.

That's pretty much what I meant, I'm assuming the AI ships would head out of the hangars on their own, following the beacons, and would only have to worry about hitting each other and the hangar door/walls.

 

[jzimmerman4]

That's pretty much what I meant, I'm assuming the AI ships would head out of the hangars on their own, following the beacons, and would only have to worry about hitting each other and the hangar door/walls.

As long as the door is big enough and you time the ships right, neither of those would be a problem. So essentially if you build smart the beacons will work, but if you poorly design a hanger, the beacons, or anything, wont work

 

[Rhyssia]

The biggest issue I've always thought would be... What do the AI controlled fighters target? "Your Target[YT]" or "Any Target[AT]"? With [YT] AI params, it makes them kinda, redundant [Like Turrets basically]? Or if you select [AT] then, I'd assume the basic AI controlled fighter would Target ANY ship. You, your team mates, what ever it thought looked particularly "shiny". So your option is to throw a faction module on them which... at that point if you don't have a good factory line for Faction blocks, it makes the AI fighters a little more expensive than "expendable". Heck if I could reliably set up a cheap faction like block on an AI Fighter... say an IFF? Then I wouldn't mind tossing credits away for disposable AI fighters that just swarm out then work as an area denial swarm.

 

[DarthHonky]

The biggest issue I've always thought would be... What do the AI controlled fighters target? "Your Target[YT]" or "Any Target[AT]"? With [YT] AI params, it makes them kinda, redundant [Like Turrets basically]? Or if you select [AT] then, I'd assume the basic AI controlled fighter would Target ANY ship. You, your team mates, what ever it thought looked particularly "shiny". So your option is to throw a faction module on them which... at that point if you don't have a good factory line for Faction blocks, it makes the AI fighters a little more expensive than "expendable". Heck if I could reliably set up a cheap faction like block on an AI Fighter... say an IFF? Then I wouldn't mind tossing credits away for disposable AI fighters that just swarm out then work as an area denial swarm.

We need another option for turrets/AI ships, something like "hostile" which would negate any chance of teammates or us being targeted by our AI minions, and if you're building in single player, admin commands make sure that nothing's ever too expensive, so you don't really have to worry about wasting credits on disposable henchmen.

 

[Rhyssia]

We need another option for turrets/AI ships, something like "hostile" which would negate any chance of teammates or us being targeted by our AI minions, and if you're building in single player, admin commands make sure that nothing's ever too expensive, so you don't really have to worry about wasting credits on disposable henchmen.

Well, even a hostile setting wouldn't work if you were trying to do a first strike, or say protect yourself [Assuming the attackers would think to target you and not the AI controlled fighters, give them one or two to notice...]. If you could just give the drones a cheap IFF block that tells the bobby AI to not fire on the linked faction(s), I think it would allow the ANY TARGET of the bobby AI to be used more effectively.

 

[Rhyssia]

On a side note...

Drone Hanger Block! Works like your basic docking block but can't[edited from can, was a typo] be "blocked" by other blocks. the goal is to use Drone Hanger Block Enhancers to set the size of the hanger, and extend it to one block past the hanger door/opening. Then you can manually connect the drone hanger block to the extensions... then the docking blocks and use the drone hanger block to manage the drones launching, docking. On a docking order it automatically opens any plex doors in the drone hanger block outline. And since there's an open direction (maybe make the drone block face the opening to designate which direction the connected drone should dock from.) the drone will fly right back up and use it's docking beam into the drone hanger block area on it's designated dock.

 

[DarthHonky]

Well, even a hostile setting wouldn't work if you were trying to do a first strike, or say protect yourself [Assuming the attackers would think to target you and not the AI controlled fighters, give them one or two to notice...]. If you could just give the drones a cheap IFF block that tells the bobby AI to not fire on the linked faction(s), I think it would allow the ANY TARGET of the bobby AI to be used more effectively.

That's the point though, faction block = IFF, and with admin commands, you can have as many as you like, no credits necessary.

 

[Rhyssia]

That's the point though, faction block = IFF, and with admin commands, you can have as many as you like, no credits necessary.

Oh and on that point. Being a non admin playing on a multiplayer server... Faction blocks are not cheap.

 

[DarthHonky]

On a side note...

Drone Hanger Block! Works like your basic docking block but can be "blocked" by other blocks. the goal is to use Drone Hanger Block Enhancers to set the size of the hanger, and extend it to one block past the hanger door/opening. Then you can manually connect the drone hanger block to the extensions... then the docking blocks and use the drone hanger block to manage the drones launching, docking. On a docking order it automatically opens any plex doors in the drone hanger block outline. And since there's an open direction (maybe make the drone block face the opening to designate which direction the connected drone should dock from.) the drone will fly right back up and use it's docking beam into the drone hanger block area on it's designated dock.

This is actually a good solution to the whole "beacons and how would we use them" issue, if it could be implemented without breaking the game...

 

[DarthHonky]

Oh and on that point. Being a non admin playing on a multiplayer server... Faction blocks are not cheap.

Build in single player and import onto the server. Of course, if you don't have the credits on the server, that might be kinda hard...

 

[Rhyssia]

...Which brings me back to my earlier point that if there were a cheaper block that some how kept AI controlled fighters from firing on me or anyone else on my faction and didn't cost 100,000 credits, when the Drone it's self only costs 54,000... That would be awesome. Because even if the IFF only cost 20,000 (still over priced considering how specialized the block is), that would still be 80,000 credits cheaper.

 

[DarthHonky]

...Which brings me back to my earlier point that if there were a cheaper block that some how kept AI controlled fighters from firing on me or anyone else on my faction and didn't cost 100,000 credits, when the Drone it's self only costs 54,000... That would be awesome. Because even if the IFF only cost 20,000 (still over priced considering how specialized the block is), that would still be 80,000 credits cheaper.

Check out the Q&A notes, I'm not sure if it will make a huge difference, but a revamp of the game economy is planned in the near future, hopefully you won't be spending more on the components than on the ships themselves for too much longer. In the meantime, maybe you can befriend an admin on your server and talk em into giving you some faction blocks for free or at a huge discount. Then betray them.

 

[Rhyssia]

That is completely unethical!
And.... I think we're hijacking the thread at this point. So I will restate my ideas and mosey onto bed.

>-=--=--=--=--=-<
--=--< Idea >--=--
>-=--=--=--=--=-<

A) Cheap IFF block that tells Bobby AIs not to fire on faction(s)

B) A Drone Hanger Block! Works like your basic docking block but can be "blocked" by other blocks. the goal is to use Drone Hanger Block Enhancers to set the size of the hanger, and extend it to one block past the hanger door/opening. Then you can manually connect the drone hanger block to the extensions... then the docking blocks and use the drone hanger block to manage the drones launching, docking. On a docking order it automatically opens any plex doors in the drone hanger block outline. And since there's an open direction (maybe make the drone block face the opening to designate which direction the connected drone should dock from.) the drone will fly right back up and use it's docking beam into the drone hanger block area on it's designated dock.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

A) Cheap IFF block that tells Bobby AIs not to fire on faction(s)

Poor players shouldn't be flying around with carriers. We don't need an added block that does the same function as the faction module which basically acts as starmades IFF. What would the difference be? Doesn't protect the ship from other players accessing it and modifying it? and doesn't have the same armor rating? Drones would be beneficial because you should be able to send them into combat for you instead of risking your carrier. That's where the risk/expense VS reward comes from.

 

[Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

Faction modules are far too expensive for simple "know who your friends and enemies are" in a block. It would be understandable if they were just superarmor blocks and you could pile a ton on, but friend-or-foe systems are too essential to be so pricey.
In the meantime, you can always create faction blocks with the cubatom system and turn a few hundred pieces of hull or ice planet bits into enough faction modules to pay for a few cruisers. Scrap those cruisers and turn their hull into faction modules, and you can probably reach the credit cap.

 

[NeonSturm]

Maybe the best solution is to have docking pathes form a path from the entrance to each dock and then reserving them for either unloading or loading ships.

All ships would just follow this line - just with support for ramps and simple 1D paths (properties: max height, max width) it would make AI path-finding a lot easier/better.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Maybe the best solution is to have docking enhancers form a path from the entrance to each dock and then reserving them for either unloading or loading ships.

All ships would just follow this line - just with support for ramps and simple 1D paths (properties: max height, max width) it would make AI path-finding a lot easier/better.

I like the idea of just simply being able to define a path for each dock but it still has issues where ships may have to depart and arrive in specific orders. Having to litter a deck that may handle dozen of ships with docking enhancers isn't a great system though, it's basically the beacon idea but without a new block type.

 

[NeonSturm]

I like the idea of just simply being able to define a path for each dock but it still has issues where ships may have to depart and arrive in specific orders. Having to litter a deck that may handle dozen of ships with docking enhancers isn't a great system though, it's basically the beacon idea but without a new block type.

Nah, just branch a path.

no loops. loops are handled as a "node" between a path and it's two branches.