All Wolfs ?'s about missile post/My first Fighter

[Wolfskin75]

Second time is a charm.

My mission on the planet was successful. I am now in building mode. I am going to build my first missile fighter/corvette. I do have a lot of questions though. So I will revisiting this post and figuring things out and asking me questions.

1.) Do the missile tubes become more powerful the more you stack like cannon tubes?

2.) I know you can add effects to the missile but what is the limit? Like one effect per back linked to a missile computer as well as several other computers?

3.) Is there any benefit draw back via hard mounted banks vs. Turrets?



This is just the beginning.

 

[Lidren]

1) Yes, all weapons benefit from stacking.

2) In all weapons you can have one primary weapon computer, with one secondary weapon computer and one effect computer linked to it. The ratio of blocks in each system determines weapon capabilities.

3) Benefits: independent firing, rapid pov traversal. Drawbacks: vulnerable, random enemy target.

 

[Runeseer]

Since you are just starting I would focus on fixed (non turret) weapons for your corvette.

Here is my reasoning:
A) Hitting your target
If you are on a server with the AI Difficulty set to “Easy”, I fear your turrets will only be effective at very close range

Easy Difficulty AI will have 99% Accuracy at 10 meters
Medium Difficulty AI will have 99% Accuracy at 30 meters
Hard Difficulty AI will have 99% Accuracy at 100 meters
Mean Difficulty AI will have 99% Accuracy at 1000 meters

B) Loot
When you blow up a pirate and it drops the loot piñata it is difficult to see at any distance.

If you use fixed weapons you can choose the range you engage a pirate and you will have a better chance of seeing the loot piñata.


Pair your missile computer with a beam weapon at 1 to 1. For each missile block you should have 1 beam weapon block.

For a basic survival server I set up a pirate hunting corvette with 30k shield and 4 20 block missile arrays. That would be a total of 80 missile blocks and 80 beam weapon blocks plus the 4 missile computers paired with the 4 beam computers.

-Runeseer

 

[MrFURB]

Stacking blocks into a group will increase the damage and energy consumption of the fired projectile based on the number of blocks in that group. Sometimes you'll want to have a single larger group and sometimes you'll want to have multiple smaller groups. Smaller groups hold the benefit of firing multiple projectiles that can affect more blocks/area but have the drawback of a 10% increase in power consumption per additional group linked to a single computer, making 'waffle guns' and projectile spam a bit unwieldy. Missiles usually have more to gain through larger groups than multiple smaller ones due to them being naturally explosive; the added damage helps the explosion reach it's maximum size.

To expand on what Lidren said, secondaries (support) and tertiaries (effects) can help specialize your weapons for a specific purpose. Just keep in mind that effects are actually quite expensive compared to other blocks. If you're crafting them early on or trying to work with a small budget you may want to forgo having effects in favor of more weapon/support blocks. The best missile combinations I've found for smaller craft is a lock-on variant (either beam support for a long range variant or pulse support for a short ranged and slow but heavy bomb (you can actually make a regular missile into a guided missile with a single beam or pulse computer/block linked to it, in case you want the locking capability without the changed stats)). Lock-on missiles allow you to stay near your maximum engagement range while still dealing full damage which helps a lot against most types of defenses. With a dumbfire missile you would need to close the distance in order to have any accuracy which spells doom against station/ship turrets. Unless you have a radar jammer, of course.

For a smaller ship you shouldn't worry about turret mounts unless they're for a very specific use, such as anti-missile point defenses or kinetic catapults. The biggest benefit of turrets is that you can fire them without your ship facing the enemy- but that's specific to larger vessels that aren't maneuverable.

 

[Shadar]

Yet if he pairs missiles with beams and makes a locked-on missile turret, does AI difficulty matter?

 

[Wolfskin75]

My idea is to have a Fast-ish ship that go up against a ship, punch it dead, and move on the next one.
I am def. going to do hard mounts because I am going to be up in the thick of things.
I am a LOOT WHORE, so I want to grab what I can for my next step Missile Frigate.
I have in my possession over 2000 missile tubes and access to more , I have over 300 power mods. (will make more) I have missile computers and beam computers. (you guys have been helpful.) I guess the more detail the better right.. I want them to be smart, ion missiles?

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Sniper missiles need only the beam computer to gain the tracking effect. These missiles will be slower, have less range and deal less damage but will fire more rapidly, the DPS will be the same however. You also need less resources put into your ships power reserves so this is a really good option for smaller craft.

 

[Wolfskin75]

ladies and gentleman.. i have picked out my ship's core....

 

[AtraUnam]

Just a warning that against extremely hardened targets (advanced armor plating 10+ blocks thick) smaller missiles may do 0 block damage.

 

[Panpiper]

Smaller groups hold the benefit of firing multiple projectiles that can affect more blocks/area but have the drawback of a 10% increase in power consumption per additional group linked to a single computer, making 'waffle guns' and projectile spam a bit unwieldy.

What the...? This is the first I have heard of this! (Why is there no newbie guide that tells us things like this?) Each additional weapon added to a primary computer increases the energy cost by 10%? So having ten separate weapons fired by a computer will cost twice as much energy as having the same number of blocks grouped into a single weapon? (I am AGAIN going to have to go back, deconstruct, rebuild and redeploy a dozen giant turrets...)

Sniper missiles need only the beam computer to gain the tracking effect. These missiles will be slower, have less range and deal less damage but will fire more rapidly, the DPS will be the same however. You also need less resources put into your ships power reserves so this is a really good option for smaller craft.

'Just' the computer? That's interesting. What is not clear to me though is what the energy cost will be per missile block in this case. Would it be 750 per block or 2250 per block?

Just a warning that against extremely hardened targets (advanced armor plating 10+ blocks thick) smaller missiles may do 0 block damage.

Ok, I am very confused now, I do not understand this at all. How it is possible for armor to reduce damage to zero? I thought all armor could do was absorb up to 400 points of damage (in the case of advanced). In my previous thinking, having ten layers of such armor only meant that you needed 4000 points of damage to destroy your way through them. What have I failed to understand?

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

'Just' the computer? That's interesting. What is not clear to me though is what the energy cost will be per missile block in this case. Would it be 750 per block or 2250 per block?


Ok, I am very confused now, I do not understand this at all. How it is possible for armor to reduce damage to zero? I thought all armor could do was absorb up to 400 points of damage (in the case of advanced). In my previous thinking, having ten layers of such armor only meant that you needed 4000 points of damage to destroy your way through them. What have I failed to understand?

As far as I am aware a zero beam module sniper missile will have the exact same stats of an equal sized dumb fire missile, just with the ability to lock on.

I wouldn't worry much about dealing with armored targets with missiles, as they are already high damage long reload. Yes you can have rapid fire cannons that deal zero damage against hardened hull but even the smallest swarm missiles should at least be able to scorch the paint.

 

[AtraUnam]

Ok, I am very confused now, I do not understand this at all. How it is possible for armor to reduce damage to zero? I thought all armor could do was absorb up to 400 points of damage (in the case of advanced). In my previous thinking, having ten layers of such armor only meant that you needed 4000 points of damage to destroy your way through them. What have I failed to understand?

Don't worry lots of people don't know this. Missiles simultaneously apply damage to all blocks in their radius, if every block is destroyed then they repeat the process for a slightly larger radius and keep doing so until they run out of damage. In the case of advanced armor if it fills the entire first radius the damage reduction can completely cancel out the missile.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Don't worry lots of people don't know this. Missiles simultaneously apply damage to all blocks in their radius, if every block is destroyed then they repeat the process for a slightly larger radius and keep doing so until they run out of damage. In the case of advanced armor if it fills the entire first radius the damage reduction can completely cancel out the missile.

Little known fact, missiles ignore armor.

I do all my weapon tests against a big block of hardened armor. When I was testing swarm missiles I noticed smaller arrays with a 1:1 slave would appeared to deal no damage to the target, a second volley revealed the damage as the first shot was below the threshold of visible damage but the damage was done. This should never be a problem on any missile other than really small swarm or rapid fire missiles due to the high damage nature of missiles.

Missiles will get an overhaul in the future to patch certain bugs.

 

[Wolfskin75]

all this information is fantastic. Thanks a bunch. My first build went horribly wrong.

1. Didn't have enough space to add what I wanted. If the ship gets bigger/longer I run into problem number two.
   
2. Placing my ship core, I forget that I have to get in it. It's gets buried pretty quickly. However, if I place it too forward I have the turn raduis issue since the ship core is the center of mass which also leads to it being bulky to dock.
   
3. When your building in advanced mode, all the weapons attach the same computer....(making parallel missile banks both are linked to the left side missile computer) any down side to this ?

 

[Panpiper]

Especially if you are building a small ship, do not be afraid of starting over. Be willing to try radically different concepts. You will both have more fun, learn more, and ultimately probably come up with a much more interesting design.

All of the weapons will attach to the computer core you have selected by default, yes, but they do not have to stay that way. If you install a second computer, you can select that second computer using the 'C' key and then select block you want it to control using the 'V' key. If you press 'Shift V', the whole group of adjacent modules will be associated with that second computer.

 

[Wolfskin75]

I am actually thinking that that might not be a bad thing. I will not have to select different "computers" i.e. scroll between numbers since I have the worst reaction time known to man. but then I am stuck without any weapons till it reloads..

maybe I will just pay someone to do i... LOL
[DOUBLEPOST=1422659826,1422659633][/DOUBLEPOST]I know wings mean nothing for the performance in space .. but I sure wish we were able to make them?

 

[Panpiper]

What I typically do with my first workhorse ship on a server is to use heatseekers. (Missile/missile which I actually slave at a 2/1 ratio to keep their hitting power and speed somewhat higher.) You do NOT want to use heatseekers when there are any friendlies about, as they will get targeted with just as much fervor as will pirates. However with my salvage ship I am only ever beside a shop which pirates will not be hostile near to, or out salvaging which is a solo activity. If pirates show up, I hit the 'kill pirates' button and just sit back and watch the fireworks, there is nothing to do for fifteen seconds til I hit the 'kill pirates' button again (obviously the heatseeker firing computer button).

Heatseekers do not need to be targeted. They will seek onto any ship or turret present that does not have your faction set (including the good guys, only ever use them if alone). I will try hard to get 32 such heatseeker launchers using 48/24 missile modules each. If I can spare the power and have the resources, I'll often add 12 ion modules to each as well to help take down shields. That is enough to kill pretty much any pirate squadron you meet, often with a single salvo. It can also take out pirate bases if your shields are good enough to take their fire for a minute.

I too am terrible at the twichiness necessary to 'dog fight'. That's why heatseekers are such a perfect match. You don't have to 'do anything' other than hit a button. If you are worried, also fly away while hitting the button. If you build the bank of 32 like myself though, your worry will soon turn to overconfidence. Make sure whoever is running your server hasn't beefed up the pirates. ;-)

 

[Wolfskin75]

I think I will be flying support as the bigger ships rip the base a new one. so for the time being the heat seekers are out.

 

[Panpiper]

Well, then try putting your missiles onto turrets and slave a beam computer to them without adding any actual beam modules. Use a Bobby AI and remember to activate it and set it to any, once you've placed the turret. Also make sure you've put a faction module into the turret and set your faction. The AI will select targets and fire for you, 'without' targeting friendlies, and your missiles will seek without assistance. Moreover your missiles will still fire every 15 seconds. Make sure you have the power storage (extra batteries) either on your turret or on your ship to support the energy usage of those missiles however (750 power per module in the above case) and sufficient power generation to completely fill the batteries in the 15 seconds it takes for the missiles to recycle. If you don't do this, the turrets will drain every erg of energy your ship possesses until all missiles have fired, both voiding your jammer (you do have one, right?) and making it difficult to move.

 

[Wolfskin75]

I have to get you a block count. I have radio jammer, cloaker, a ton of power caps. shields, sheild regens. a total of 300 power mods, and I can make more if needed. I am going to def. be watching the power on this... and I am going to need a lot of power.. between my thrusters, shield weapons, jump drive and my defense computers... (jammers, clockers.) I am going to need all I can get.