Current Weapon Balance: Shields vs Hull

[Mered4]

To be brutally honest though, what kind of chance will a hunk of metal stand against a high-energy beam, or energy blast? The only thing it makes sense to be useful against is missile damage. But I will also take that into consideration.

We're not here for realism
We're here for a good, balanced space sim with super awesome customization in the form of blocks.

 

[Lecic]

What could be done is increase the resistance values to the point of 99.8-99.95% Giving adv armor ridiculous amounts of HP

I'm not even sure if the game allows for partial percentages of armor values.

 

[ltmauve]

It does not. Does anyone else think that armor should be division, not percentage, which would mean it can scale much further.

 

[Megacrafter127]

It does not. Does anyone else think that armor should be division, not percentage, which would mean it can scale much further.

I think there should be 2 armor values:

• Damage threshhold(any damage done to the block which is lower than this is simply ignored)
• Damage resistance/scale(any damage done to the block is divided/multiplied by this value)

 

[jayman38]

I think there should be 2 armor values:

• Damage threshhold(any damage done to the block which is lower than this is simply ignored)
• Damage resistance/scale(any damage done to the block is divided/multiplied by this value)

Due to bit storage, we won't get this on a per-block basis. However, it could be part of the frequently-referenced HP update as whole-entity values. Suggested default values: threshold: 0.01% (might devalue fighters and drones again), resistance scale: %hp remaining? (max 99%?)

 

[Megacrafter127]

Due to bit storage, we won't get this on a per-block basis. However, it could be part of the frequently-referenced HP update as whole-entity values. Suggested default values: threshold: 0.01% (might devalue fighters and drones again), resistance scale: %hp remaining? (max 99%?)

Armor values are generally constant. They don't change as long as the block remains the same, regardless of it's status. HP may change, armor-values may not.
I am very well aware, that the bits won't be changed within forseeable time.

 

[NeonSturm]

Due to bit storage, we won't get this on a per-block basis. However, it could be part of the frequently-referenced HP update as whole-entity values. Suggested default values: threshold: 0.01% (might devalue fighters and drones again), resistance scale: %hp remaining? (max 99%?)

Armor and threshold both are stored just once per block type, not per block.

For a threshold we also need either extreme diminishing returns on weapons (after the default threshold) or a damage quants then the threshold applies for the damage quant before it's multiplied by weapon ticks and weapon block number.

number blocks : 1, 8, 27, 64, ..
diminishing returns : 11, 12, 13, 14, ... -threshold(-10)
(dmgQuant - threshold) * weapon ticks * number blocks ...​

 

[Noc]

Weapon grouping in general needs a total rework. It gets too wonky too fast.

 

[Thalanor]

It is inherently broken because shields have diminishing returns while damage is entirely linear.
This results in an incredibly large difference in how these values turn out for very large ships. Basically, in starmade, the larger the ships involved in a battle are, the faster the battle will be over.
Hull is even worse, because it does not scale at all and the values are clearly adjusted for fighter dogfights.

Here is how to fix everything:
1. Buff astrotech: by turning blocks with <= 0hp invisible and passable instead of removing them, the beam would play a major part in how battle damage is repaired. Bonus points for expanded AI settings that allow repair drones.
2. Considerably distinguish the hull types. Basic hull should have zero resistance and mass; standard armor should probably gain the properties advanced armor currently has and more mass than the average system block, and advanced armor should come with very high armor values while their mass is enormous. This way, each armor type would have it's use:
- Basic hull is the designated RP/unarmored interior/invincible station material. Not adding to the mass of the ship, these are an excellent addition, but they offer zero resistance and will break on the first hit with a weapon. They will also be treated by any incoming damage as if it was punch-through.
- Standard armor is your go-to hull reinforcement for covering large areas with acceptable cost or building more resilient standard craft, for example as pirate raiders.
- Advanced armor is what you put on your ship if you know you are more of a mobile station than a quick moving ship anyways. With the heavy mass penalties, large amounts of advanced armor will make a ship move like a slug, but intelligent armoring of key areas will provide excellent protection in case the shields are down: if your capital is a giant machine gun, you will actually not be able to use it against armor that well (perhaps including the threshold thing). If you want to make a dent into capital plating, you need something slow-firing that packs alot of punch.

 

[NeonSturm]

Basic hull should have zero resistance and mass; standard armor should probably gain the properties advanced armor currently has and more mass than the average system block, and advanced armor should come with very high armor values while their mass is enormous.

Advanced armor is what you put on your ship if you know you are more of a mobile station than a quick moving ship anyways. With the heavy mass penalties, large amounts of advanced armor will make a ship move like a slug

This really asks for a more complex system if we wanna keep 3 byte per block and satisfy everybody at once.

Basic

Cost : 2x
Weight : 1x
HP : 3x
Armor : 2x
Good to boost overall HP (HP system)​

Advanced

Cost : 4x
Weight : 3x
HP : 3x
Armor : 4x
Good to reduce impact damage (low overall hp drain)​

Heavy

Cost : 1x
Weight : 4x
HP : 4x
Armor : 2x
Good station block (cheap, heavy does not impact performance)​

.
.
Shield

Cost : 4x
Weight : 4x
HP : 1x
Armor : 4x
Shield-Armor : 2x

Could be below an armor layer and thus create a damage overlay.
If separate arrays have separate overall-HP
.
Or be invisible and just determinate where the shield is active.​