Database Window makes game unplayable

[Noc]

Will this be fixed anytime soon? Because getting griefed by people exploiting this just stopped my group from paying for the game ever.

 

[therimmer96]

Database window? what are you talking about?

 

[CyberTao]

Database... is that the - window that comes up?
If people can manage to navigate it, they can find the Co-ordinates of other player ships (Lists the loaded sectors as well, a long ass list that I thought updated too quickly to use).

Other than that, I don't know what you could be talking about (Hilariously, I also discovered F8 and F11 did things, not anything useful, but still things).

 

[Noc]

The F3 menu is exactly what I'm talking about. We were having a lot of fun but the game is broken with that window. Hug an invulnerable static or accept being completely at the mercy of trolls. When is this planned on being fixed?

 

[therimmer96]

The F3 menu is exactly what I'm talking about. We were having a lot of fun but the game is broken with that window. Hug an invulnerable static or accept being completely at the mercy of trolls. When is this planned on being fixed?

I have never heard of someone actually using it, because it shows loaded entities rather than what players are using, and IIRC, it doesnt even tell you which ones players are using.

 

[CyberTao]

It's a debugging tool I think, used by devs (and server admins I think). Would be great if they could disable it for the average player, but they do know it's there.

It doesn't show player co-ordinates, nor where the players are, just where loaded entities are (confirming Rimmer). Sounds more like a community issue if people are abusing it, might care to try a new server?

 

[Noc]

It's a debugging tool I think, used by devs (and server admins I think). Would be great if they could disable it for the average player, but they do know it's there.

It doesn't show player co-ordinates, nor where the players are, just where loaded entities are (confirming Rimmer). Sounds more like a community issue if people are abusing it, might care to try a new server?

It shows every client's exact coordinates in real time. And while it is really easy to tell when someone is abusing it hard, it is impossible to remove the absolute advantage it gives in even "fair" pvp that is not griefing centric.

 

[CyberTao]

Everytime something is updated though, it resets and scrolls to the very top. Try it yourself on another server, it's not easy if there is people. And if there aren't people, then it doesn't show much, since it is only what's loaded. Not everyone is abusive of debug tools

 

[Noc]

I tried it, it's not as hard as you are making it out to be. And people definitely are using easily it to grief, so it is clearly not a non-issue. And banning overt abusers is not a full or long-term solution.

 

[therimmer96]

I am an admin of Elwyn and own Infinite Havoc, and have never seen this exploited, nor have i heard of it until now.
[DOUBLEPOST=1421975425,1421975390][/DOUBLEPOST]Submit a bug report rather than bitching about something we have said you cant turn off if it bothers you that much.

 

[Noc]

I am an admin of Elwyn and own Infinite Havoc, and have never seen this exploited, nor have i heard of it until now.
[DOUBLEPOST=1421975425,1421975390][/DOUBLEPOST]Submit a bug report rather than bitching about something we have said you cant turn off if it bothers you that much.

http://bugs.star-made.org/issues/1663

It's right there.

 

[Jananton]

Hmm, this is a non issue for an alpha game, only give the server administrator(s) access to this option in the future solves this in a whiffy. :D

Greets,

Jan

 

[Noc]

Hmm, this is a non issue for an alpha game, only give the server administrator(s) access to this option in the future solves this in a whiffy. :D

Greets,

Jan

It is quite the opposite from a trivial issue. It is a game that can be accessed for free without even registering. Every public PVP server can be made unplayable by just one or two people abusing this feature... they don't even need a lot of resources to take down almost any ship (a completely different kind of balance issue, but perfect intel undermines the need for balancing offense with defense).

The admins of a server can ban blatant abusers, but that is pushing them to actively police all PVP which is very labor intensive. Except in the case of people cheerfully bragging about exploiting the game, there is no way to tell if anyone is actually using this feature.

In short, all public servers with PVP can be broken by this feature. Some popular ones are broken by this issue. Just because PVP is not important to you does not make it unimportant to gameplay.

I do agree the option of hiding it is all that needs to happen, but the issue was mentioned at least half a year ago and it was still present when my group started playing last week ... the honor system with strangers on the internet is not the foundation for fun gameplay.

This thread is purposely aggressive because of my absolute shock that people don't seem to care about such an important flaw. Other survival/crafting games with pvp are ripped apart for not offering the option to hide your name (which Starmade offers with the radar jammer) and this game has a menu that tells non-admins where every other player is at all times with 100% accuracy? Incredible.

 

[jayman38]

Potential solution:
At random locations, build a new ship consisting of only a core and a Bobby AI and turn it on, in order to salt the field with decoys. Hopefully, this will be quick and cheap.

 

[MightyJarHead]

It is quite the opposite from a trivial issue. It is a game that can be accessed for free without even registering. Every public PVP server can be made unplayable by just one or two people abusing this feature... they don't even need a lot of resources to take down almost any ship (a completely different kind of balance issue, but perfect intel undermines the need for balancing offense with defense).

The admins of a server can ban blatant abusers, but that is pushing them to actively police all PVP which is very labor intensive. Except in the case of people cheerfully bragging about exploiting the game, there is no way to tell if anyone is actually using this feature.

In short, all public servers with PVP can be broken by this feature. Some popular ones are broken by this issue. Just because PVP is not important to you does not make it unimportant to gameplay.

I do agree the option of hiding it is all that needs to happen, but the issue was mentioned at least half a year ago and it was still present when my group started playing last week ... the honor system with strangers on the internet is not the foundation for fun gameplay.

This thread is purposely aggressive because of my absolute shock that people don't seem to care about such an important flaw. Other survival/crafting games with pvp are ripped apart for not offering the option to hide your name (which Starmade offers with the radar jammer) and this game has a menu that tells non-admins where every other player is at all times with 100% accuracy? Incredible.

I joined the same said server, and ran into this same issue - one (maybe more, but definitely one) player was zipping about in a cloaked/jammed ship jumping from person to person insta-popping them without them ever knowing what hit them. Several people were hit this way. Soon enough I was hit (destroyed), then went out again with a new ship to a different area. I caught the same person appearing on my Nav screen, and jumped away in a random direction before he could pop me. Less then 20 seconds later after my jump I died. That person jumped to my new location and killed me. Something was up, I thought they were cheating. I joined the teamspeak channel for the server to ask some questions and found out about the F3 screen. I really hope this can be hidden soon, it saps the fun of the game. I came from playing Space Engineers, and have to say I love this game more. This *seems* like an easy issue to suppress (the F3 Window).

OP, definitely understand and vent the same frustration. From some of the posts I wonder if this issue is not as commonly exploited to such a degree on other servers. Cat's out of the bag now, every new steamer will see these entries and its going to be a turkey shoot.

 

[therimmer96]

one question, why not moan at the server admins rather than here to get this resolved?

 

[CyberTao]

You know, instead of posting something like this, alerting everyone of the exploit, could you have not just asked a moderator/admin about this? And have them direct you to the right place to comment on it? Be more subtle?

I'll admit, this seems like more of an issue now that we have jumpdrives (before you could just see them coming), so maybe if you had contacted someone of power, they could maybe let the Dev know that it is more urgent now? Just unbinding the button for public releases is all that's really needed.

Also, I still dont know what server this is. Sounds like Redshift to me, since the community there has always been questionable (from the perspective of the forums/chat anyways).

 

[MightyJarHead]

one question, why not moan at the server admins rather than here to get this resolved?

I'm somewhat perplexed regarding your comment's attitude (and others like it), and finding my first impression of the Starmade community a bit.. unreceptive. If my attitude is bad, I expect to be checked, but was posting in hopes to help the community as a whole, and felt my comment was an in good-faith addition to strengthen's OPs issue, without being negative.
To answer your question, yes, admins are aware, but that does not negate the fact that there is an outstanding issue here (reading OP's bug report and the reply lets me know the Dev(s) are aware and agree it is an issue?)

 

[CyberTao]

I'm somewhat perplexed regarding your comment's attitude (and others like it), and finding my first impression of the Starmade community a bit.. unreceptive. If my attitude is bad, I expect to be checked, but was posting in hopes to help the community as a whole, and felt my comment was an in good-faith addition to strengthen's OPs issue, without being negative.
To answer your question, yes, admins are aware, but that does not negate the fact that there is an outstanding issue here (reading OP's bug report and the reply lets me know the Dev(s) are aware and agree it is an issue?)

What are we suppose to do about it though? It's known, but it's needed for Dev reasons, and could be useful for admins if it was readable (for the most part it isnt on active servers). It's an alpha game, not a full release. Things are broken, incomplete and unbalanced. We're all testers really, and I for one laugh at anyone so pathetic and dependent on winning that they depend on the screen. I honestly think that person came from steam if he this kind of mentality.

You have a server issue with your server's community. People will abuse it if they can get away with it. You yourself said you warp away from someone who came from nowhere, and then he showed up again. Get a few people to agree/confirm and suddenly the abuser is IP banned. If it's a constant issue on the server, try a new one.

It's needed for Devs and Testers, Schema has other things to work on, rather than spend time trying to abuse-proof his own tools. The opinion of the community is "it's a thing, we know it's there, but the majority don't know of it, or wont abuse it". The tester on the bug-tracker even said it was known, that is the extent of what we can do.
Maybe a AndyP, or another tester involved with that issue would be someone you'd want to talk to. See what is being done and planned.

 

[MightyJarHead]

You know, instead of posting something like this, alerting everyone of the exploit, could you have not just asked a moderator/admin about this? And have them direct you to the right place to comment on it? Be more subtle? ...
).

I did weigh the option for being subtle, but after reading two posts today regarding the issue (and only finding one other reference in April of last year regarding the same issue) I decided to help strengthen this OP's post in hopes to help. i.e. The Skeleton is already out of the closet

Now - for any new player reading this, I will say not all is lost, but knowing about this window while it is available will help tailor your actions to prevent losing new people from the community.

I'm a noob, but as of now, I'm toying with these strategies:

a) It is a must to claim a planet (or station if you can afford) right away to have as a faction home (invulnerable to attack, cant destroy docked ships)
b) I will have cloak and radar jamming before undocking with any ship I do not wish to insta-lose. Powered to stay on permanently. If someone sees you, your dead. Doesn't seem to matter on your shield strength. I was one-shotted with over 35,000 shields. Stay hidden.
c) Any mining jaunts will be in quick-to-build small ships, without a storage, resulting in all ore mined entering my inventory. Because I assume I will get killed most times I leave my base to a new sector.
d) Alert as many newer players to the issue to prevent them from rage-quitting (assuming they are nice and want help)
e) I may never have a ship (even docked at home base) left around, and only use blueprints. Deconstructing ships when not in use to prevent others from knowing what I have. This might be good to do even without this issue.
f) If possible, move far enough away - another galaxy if possible - to make it moderately more difficult for the griefer to jump straight to me, and using the database window myself, hopefully to see multiple movement entries (jumps) from a griefer before he gets to me

Love the game, just trying to help.
[DOUBLEPOST=1422049514,1422049124][/DOUBLEPOST]

What are we suppose to do about it though? It's known, but it's needed for Dev reasons, and could be useful for admins if it was readable (for the most part it isnt on active servers). It's an alpha game, not a full release. Things are broken, incomplete and unbalanced. We're all testers really, and I for one laugh at anyone so pathetic and dependent on winning that they depend on the screen. I honestly think that person came from steam if he this kind of mentality. (...)

I wasn't aware this was whining; Alpha means unfinished, but your statement is contradictory to that fact in an effort to suppress discussion of issues and game-play mechanical changes. Why are you so bitter?