Infinite Power is OP

[unelsson]

Lecic's holy trinity of power generators seems to hit the spot. Thinking of game balance and incentives along those lines, solar energy should be cheap, but would require high surface area to be effective and would be very ineffective when far from stars. Fuel-powered on the other hand is also cheap to build, but would take less space and produce high amounts of energy. And third, some sort of scifi-tech generators for infinite energy, but handicapped by extreme cost and perhaps a power output curve that favors this kind of generators only when combined with hundreds/thousands of these modules (increasing the cost further).

I also liked the idea of power stations offering energy for a price. This would certainly boost game economy.

Infinite energy setting in config also doesn't sound like it would hurt.

 

[Deleted member 392097]

I'm gonna say "no" to fossil fuels. Especially since the only way to get the stuff would be planets, which beginners aren't going to get to immediately.

Well perhaps extracting fossil fuels from planets would be the business of those who are not beginners and have worked their way up to the top with determination and hard labour. Perhaps beginners would be encouraged to start mining asteroids and trading their goods in for other goods and money. And those who have already done it all and worked their way up to the top would be able to set up extraction points on planets where they could mine for fossil fuels. And then they would be able to trade with trading beginners (or intermediate players). And would basically set up 'space petrol stations'.

You shouldn't be able to just enter the game and just be able to do everything, and then just carry on until you can buy everything. You should have to actually work hard and then there should be a wide range of jobs you can do instead of just going round the universe doing whatever you want.

There also needs to be a sense of economy, and have certain factions which like the oil industry which would have a lot of power because of what they can offer. With all this comes power and corruption, but all this is needed in a realistic game.

Well this sort of thing should at least be optional, so having an option in the config file for all this would be really good as it would offer more customisation, and choice.

 

[Lecic]

Well perhaps extracting fossil fuels from planets would be the business of those who are not beginners and have worked their way up to the top with determination and hard labour. Perhaps beginners would be encouraged to start mining asteroids and trading their goods in for other goods and money. And those who have already done it all and worked their way up to the top would be able to set up extraction points on planets where they could mine for fossil fuels. And then they would be able to trade with trading beginners (or intermediate players). And would basically set up 'space petrol stations'.

You shouldn't be able to just enter the game and just be able to do everything, and then just carry on until you can buy everything. You should have to actually work hard and then there should be a wide range of jobs you can do instead of just going round the universe doing whatever you want.

There also needs to be a sense of economy, and have certain factions which like the oil industry which would have a lot of power because of what they can offer. With all this comes power and corruption, but all this is needed in a realistic game.

Well this sort of thing should at least be optional, so having an option in the config file for all this would be really good as it would offer more customisation, and choice.

Let me elaborate. Fossil Fuels are a HORRIBLE choice of spaceship fuel. They give much less energy per kilogram than, say, hydrogen. 1 kilo of hydrogen gives as much energy as a gallon of gasoline, which weighs ~2.75 kilos.

 

[Deleted member 392097]

Let me elaborate. Fossil Fuels are a HORRIBLE choice of spaceship fuel. They give much less energy per kilogram than, say, hydrogen. 1 kilo of hydrogen gives as much energy as a gallon of gasoline, which weighs ~2.75 kilos.

Perhaps though your ship would not run on fossil fuels, but instead a power station would use fossil fuels to make the energy and then you would go to one, dock, and have that energy transferred to your power cells. This would also cost you a certain amount per Kilowatt or so.

I think that a very important point to note here is that the electricity would not have to be generated in your ship, but instead you could buy it at a special station.

 

[jath]

I heard they were going to have a Yhole reactor. It'll run on Yholes.

 

[Syleiel]

I heard they were going to have a Yhole reactor. It'll run on Yholes.

Pretty sure that was an A-hole reactor. As long as there's an A-hole around, it'll give a constant supply of power.

 

[Megacrafter127]

Let me elaborate. Fossil Fuels are a HORRIBLE choice of spaceship fuel. They give much less energy per kilogram than, say, hydrogen. 1 kilo of hydrogen gives as much energy as a gallon of gasoline, which weighs ~2.75 kilos.

Uranium also is a fossile fuel, same for hydrogen.(if you want to use it in a fusion reactor and not in a fuel cell that is)
Any kind of fuel that doesn't regenerate or regenerates very slowly, and has thus existed for a very long time is a fossile fuel.

 

[MrTargareyan]

Any kind of fuel that doesn't regenerate or regenerates very slowly, and has thus existed for a very long time is a fossile fuel.

Fossil fuels are formed from the remains of dead animals/plants in the distant past, oil and coal are examples of this, however uranium is not. It is an element, and in no way comes from the remains of dead animals or plants; it's existence on earth pre dates living organisms.

Though uranium is not a fossil fuel, it, coal and oil are all non renewable (unless your willing to wait for dead animals to turn into oil that is, which takes a while). I might be wrong, but a quick google search backed this up.

 

[Megacrafter127]

Fossil fuels are formed from the remains of dead animals/plants in the distant past, oil and coal are examples of this, however uranium is not. It is an element, and in no way comes from the remains of dead animals or plants; it's existence on earth pre dates living organisms.

Though uranium is not a fossil fuel, it, coal and oil are all non renewable (unless your willing to wait for dead animals to turn into oil that is, which takes a while). I might be wrong, but a quick google search backed this up.

That is mostly because most currently used definition only include burning fuel. Uranium isn't burned to release it's energy, thus (by most definitions) it isn't even a fuel.
However, I include anything that can somehow be used up to release energy as fuel. And the adjective "fossil" just adds the inability to regenerate at noticable speed.(which uranium obviously doesn't have)

 

[MrTargareyan]

And the adjective "fossil" just adds the inability to regenerate at noticable speed.(which uranium obviously doesn't have)

Isn't that just a non-renewable fuel though? In the case of uranium.

 

[Megacrafter127]

Isn't that just a non-renewable fuel though? In the case of uranium.

In general, the adjective "fossil" means something extremely old. The literal translation from latin "fossilis" would be "obtained by digging". So technically, any naturally occurring solid element in the periodic table is a fossil element. So yes, uranium is a fossil fuel(if it is considered a fuel).

 

[MrTargareyan]

In general, the adjective "fossil" means something extremely old. The literal translation from latin "fossilis" would be "obtained by digging". So technically, any naturally occurring solid element in the periodic table is a fossil element. So yes, uranium is a fossil fuel(if it is considered a fuel).

Oh, that's why then, so your thinking of it as "This fuel is a fossil in the metaphorical sense", whereas I'm thinking of it as "fuel from fossils"?
Although the adjective fossil can be used to describe something very old, when you say fossil fuel, generally, people would think of a fuel derived from dead biomass, rather than an old fuel.

For example, if you take the "define: fossil fuel" definition from Google, it says "a natural fuel such as coal or gas, formed in the geological past from the remains of living organisms." Or for example the Encyclopedia Britannica definition, which states "All contain carbon and were formed as a result of geologic processes acting on the remains of organic matter produced by photosynthesis, a process that began in the Archean Eon more than 3 billion years ago." Uranium neither contains carbon or is formed from dead biomass.

Though fossil fuel could be taken to mean a fuel derived from something very old, which is dug from the ground; the majority of people (I would guess) would take it to mean the subset of fuels formed from dead biomass over millions of years.

 

[Ciggofwar]

People have no idea what there really talking about, what if oil is not derived from fossils the difference is would be your ignorance of being ignorant born that way naturally, your only accepting information that's been given, most of the populace have no idea of stuff is made or composed. If I own the house of dictionary I could define any way I choose too, you read and accept and not any wiser to what is given to you. You would think your world was genuine, real, when it's entirety based off of an "ideal idea" it's made up, at one point in time it simple never existed! Oil could be infinite based rather than finite based, which would affect supplies and demand, new drilling locations, exploration etc...

It's much easier to live off your efforts than my own, I can go travelling, visiting hobnobbing while you go to work buying into a concept that I made for you or made up for you. Your born into a concept, becomes inherent you adapt and adopt it as your own.
As to why you believe- you simple don't know, having no self knowledge pool of your own. you rinse and repeat until you die, kept busy.

Realized "differences" will be different for many people similar to the game on when you started playing from the beginning of alpha or at the end. The person at the end of alpha will not realize the changes made throughout the game the ability to differentiate "differences" realization of the game in it's entirety will be much different than the alpha player from the begging.

Experiencing a difference or differences is also how we acquire knowledge and use that knowledge in a applied fashion only in a form of technology, the wisdom of knowing a difference, for instance you can drill for oil extract and process like today's method, or I can drill a lesser hole with a laser and apply nano's to extract the just hydro carbons I seek and leave the rest behind.

The difference is your ignorance of being ignorant which is your "bliss" of not knowing the differences. Everyone is equally the same of not knowing naturally born that way. Comes down to what you do with the differences you do have and why.

 

[Lecic]

People have no idea what there really talking about, what if oil is not derived from fossils the difference is would be your ignorance of being ignorant born that way naturally, your only accepting information that's been given, most of the populace have no idea of stuff is made or composed. If I own the house of dictionary I could define any way I choose too, you read and accept and not any wiser to what is given to you. You would think your world was genuine, real, when it's entirety based off of an "ideal idea" it's made up, at one point in time it simple never existed! Oil could be infinite based rather than finite based, which would affect supplies and demand, new drilling locations, exploration etc...

It's much easier to live off your efforts than my own, I can go travelling, visiting hobnobbing while you go to work buying into a concept that I made for you or made up for you. Your born into a concept, becomes inherent you adapt and adopt it as your own.
As to why you believe- you simple don't know, having no self knowledge pool of your own. you rinse and repeat until you die, kept busy.

Realized "differences" will be different for many people similar to the game on when you started playing from the beginning of alpha or at the end. The person at the end of alpha will not realize the changes made throughout the game the ability to differentiate "differences" realization of the game in it's entirety will be much different than the alpha player from the begging.

Experiencing a difference or differences is also how we acquire knowledge and use that knowledge in a applied fashion only in a form of technology, the wisdom of knowing a difference, for instance you can drill for oil extract and process like today's method, or I can drill a lesser hole with a laser and apply nano's to extract the just hydro carbons I seek and leave the rest behind.

The difference is your ignorance of being ignorant which is your "bliss" of not knowing the differences. Everyone is equally the same of not knowing naturally born that way. Comes down to what you do with the differences you do have and why.

Well, this was a journey to read from start to finish.

Words are not "things." They're just communication tools. If you change the meaning of "fossil fuels" to mean "anything old that you dig out of the ground and provides energy" and people AGREE with you (no dictionary is going to be successful if it just randomly changes the definitions of words that people already agreed upon) then who gives a shit? Language evolves. But currently, fossil fuels are fuels derived from organic, carbon-based fossils.

 

[Syleiel]

People have no idea what there really talking about, what if oil is not derived from fossils the difference is would be your ignorance of being ignorant born that way naturally, your only accepting information that's been given, most of the populace have no idea of stuff is made or composed. If I own the house of dictionary I could define any way I choose too, you read and accept and not any wiser to what is given to you. You would think your world was genuine, real, when it's entirety based off of an "ideal idea" it's made up, at one point in time it simple never existed! Oil could be infinite based rather than finite based, which would affect supplies and demand, new drilling locations, exploration etc...

It's much easier to live off your efforts than my own, I can go travelling, visiting hobnobbing while you go to work buying into a concept that I made for you or made up for you. Your born into a concept, becomes inherent you adapt and adopt it as your own.
As to why you believe- you simple don't know, having no self knowledge pool of your own. you rinse and repeat until you die, kept busy.

Realized "differences" will be different for many people similar to the game on when you started playing from the beginning of alpha or at the end. The person at the end of alpha will not realize the changes made throughout the game the ability to differentiate "differences" realization of the game in it's entirety will be much different than the alpha player from the begging.

Experiencing a difference or differences is also how we acquire knowledge and use that knowledge in a applied fashion only in a form of technology, the wisdom of knowing a difference, for instance you can drill for oil extract and process like today's method, or I can drill a lesser hole with a laser and apply nano's to extract the just hydro carbons I seek and leave the rest behind.

The difference is your ignorance of being ignorant which is your "bliss" of not knowing the differences. Everyone is equally the same of not knowing naturally born that way. Comes down to what you do with the differences you do have and why.

I can't tell if your first paragraph is a conspiracy theory about oil or if it is how someone can manipulate the meaning of something, such as a word, through a higher means. But whatever, I spent 5 minutes and Googled some words:

1. Fossil fuel is a general term for buried combustible geologic deposits of organic materials, formed from decayed plants and animals that have been converted to crude oil, coal, natural gas, or heavy oils by exposure to heat and pressure in the earth's crust over hundreds of millions of years.
2. Renewable energy is generally defined as energy that comes from resources which are naturally replenished on a human timescale such as sunlight, wind, rain, tides, waves and geothermal heat.

Of course there are other types of fuels/energy.

 

[jath]

That is mostly because most currently used definition only include burning fuel. Uranium isn't burned to release it's energy, thus (by most definitions) it isn't even a fuel.
However, I include anything that can somehow be used up to release energy as fuel. And the adjective "fossil" just adds the inability to regenerate at noticable speed.(which uranium obviously doesn't have)

wrong on multiple fronts.

Uranium is used to heat water with it's natural "burning" that it does by giving off radiation. There is interplay between rods of refined uranium that causes it to heat up, just like burning sticks, and boil water. The difference is that the overall chemical change (mass reduction) vs sticks is a tiny fraction. It burns. Not in a traditional way, but it burns.

Secondly, fuel is any consumable that provides energy through a chemical change. Cereal, bacon, toast, oil, logs, hydrogen, plutonium, all fuels. burning is not a requirement.

 

[Lecic]

Anything will burn if you turn it into a fine dust.

 

[Syleiel]

Anything will burn if you turn it into a fine dust.

The noble gases will not combust. (Source -> Chemistry Major)

 

[Megacrafter127]

Uranium is used to heat water with it's natural "burning" that it does by giving off radiation. There is interplay between rods of refined uranium that causes it to heat up, just like burning sticks, and boil water. The difference is that the overall chemical change (mass reduction) vs sticks is a tiny fraction. It burns. Not in a traditional way, but it burns.

"Burning" is generally defined as a very exothermic oxydization of the burned material.

On another note, the uranium235's natural radioactive decay isn't used to generate the heat in fission reactors.

However, we should either stop this or take this to pm, as this has nothing to do with the thread at hand anymore.

 

[Ciggofwar]

Back in around in 1996 things started changing especially in Canada, why? oohh the internet! windows 95 your 32 megs of ram and the new Pentium chip that performed a funky new math that they still had troubles of how it actually worked. Where hardware took the frount seat to software. The ban on books they had in place up too that point became obsolete, we had a religious view on books deemed not Christian like! a lot of people were unaware of this, they also at the time period started changing the words to what you use today, buying up all the book houses for dictionaries. So one entity has control over the defined words for the internet for the entire world and all the schools across the globe.-who do I influence and control now? everyone including grandma!

Things you missed out on not born in a time period, which will be your "ignorance" of not knowing, words will change from the uses of slang naturally and popularity, at this point your dealing with thought articulation no different than finger or hand articulation for gaming by the process of "manipulation".
one does not "create" hand manipulation, but in the defined world oohh yes you can! Why have people skip a process of thought articulation,
much easier on the individual in accepting what is given, just don't give a shit and accept, ignorance is never bliss, no matter what side of the railroad tracks you come from.

Fossil fuel is a general term for buried combustible geologic deposits of organic materials, what if the math does not fathom this suggestion it argues against it, and the geological argues against it, the ideal idea crumbles away from thought articulation.

Not so different inside the game mechanics of the use of this programmed engine that schema has going, burning dust particles or particulate matter is very efficient which falls into the pattern of thermo dynamics of quantum, so does language when its an applied math, the conversation between heat and energy, by schema re-altering code or by cleaning code uses less processing power, it becomes faster less resistance in it's entirety better ping and fps values which allows for more code to be applied, it's about stability and boundaries and being able to cross boundaries and find stability.

No different than seeking power to power your ship, do you want to blow up a nuclear ship at your front door or you enemies front door?
Your dealing with thought articulation if implementing an ideal idea of how to power a ship which now is based on your ignorance's from being ignorant up too the point of now in this ecto-second .

Your dealing with balances as everything touches everything else as code touches code, there are many ways we could live in our space adventures, so I necessarily don't need ideal ideas from this world in it's current situation to satisfy my game play with the edition of implementing power, warfare could be about pollution as well, being able to locate you through your pollution, could be from radar noise generation to manufacturing and your waste the evidence you leave behind, the bread crumbs on the trail as it were, excavation of resources
and how efficient it is in game play, where effective and efficient come into game play as we have stability in space.

You could utilize power tanks that hold gigawatts of power from solar that goes into a information process where the language of power & energy is converted in it's most efficient code- computer and functionality, and various elements will release information code when language of power and energy is applied which will bring about a tool, device that utilizes the differences which than that can be stored in various positions of stability as in gases liquids or solids or even combinations of mixes.
You can build a ship where the process is onboard or just carry the stability of the mixture on board
Since it's information or code we could utilize a static reactor chamber firing heavily charged "electrons or other" from the mixtures.

In the process you have gathered material recourses and altered the states to hold more information, it's designed information of code being of efficient that makes it effective, the materials are not in there natural positions, where a new elemental table is utilized, the elements exist naturally but there always in constant change like in a black hole, where it difficult to access it directly and extract the mixtures in question.

You have taken the black hole code and sniped the information strand and applied into a tool through a computer that gives you a process and in transit with rich zip packets of stored information derived from a black holes that is utilized in our tesla static reactor chambers and the pollution derived would be naturally occurring anti-dark matter.
That's my 2 cents on the subject.