Docking: A series of Concise theories to improve a vital function

[CAPTAINZACH]

The capability to dock, or affix ships to one another, is and most likely than not will always be an integral part of the game. However...the current docking system...how do I put this politely...it's horrible. The core-centric design of the current docking system is horrible, and if you don't place the core JUST SO, the ship goes from docakble to "What's docking?" in a single placement of a block. This clearly is a horrible option for docking, and, with Schema and his fellow developers working on revampping docking, here are some ideas that might help them figure out how to make docking easier:

1: Area-vs-size docking:
This is a simplistic fix of the old system. Essentially, it takes the current docking procedures and removes the idea that the core must be over the docking clamp. This is by no means anything other than a "quick fix", and may lend itself to more problems in the long run.

2: Clamp-to-Clamp Style docking:
This is like the way that real-life spaceships dock. Essentially, the player would need a docking clamp on each door he wished to be dockable. There would also have to be a set on the opposite door, as both sides would "latch" together., which may cause issues. The plus side is that there would be a form of walkway between ships, and that they could undock easier. While this would be a nice addition to larger vessels, most small crat would become pointless. Also, you'd need some way of indicating that the ships want to dock with each other.

3:A combination of the above to functions:
This is, by far (IMO) the best option. It provides a "docking area" for smaller ships, and a latch-based system for bigger ships. There is one downside in that getting both systems to function together effectively would be a hassle for developers to code, and would be difficult to build for players

4:Mass-Based Docking (As first suggested on this thread by AtraUnam)
Mass-based docking is another solution. The docking area, rather than supporting an area of clear space into which the ship must fit, bases the docking compatability based on mass, providing that the ship does not bump into anything in the docking area. In other words, a ship could dock if its mass/block count were less than or equal to the amount that the clamp allows.

IN CONCLUSION:
The above are suggestions for ways that docking could be improved in StarMade. Of course, though, the above ideas all have their drawbacks as well as their strengths. If you, the reader, have any other ideas, please let me know.

-signed
CAPTAINZACH

 

[ToyotaSupra]

I like the idea of a latch or magnetic landing gear for larger ships, personally. Large ships on docking cores look...retarded.

 

[AtraUnam]

I prefer mass based docking.

 

[CAPTAINZACH]

ToyotaSupra: Indeed, I agree with your statement. That's why my second option exists, because the way lager ships look when docked is odd, to say the least. But mainly, I personally would not care right now as long the core doesn't HAVE to be over the docking clamp.

AtraUnam: Mass-based docking? If you refer to the current area-docking (docking compatability is based on the ship's dimensions), then I agree with you also. I feel that the current system (with the modification so that the core doesn't HAVE to be in the center of the ship) works fine, especcially for smaller vessels like shuttles. If, however, you refer to something different, please inform me and I'll add it to the post (with credit to you, of course)

 

[AtraUnam]

I do not mean the current system. Mass based docking is just what it sounds like, a ship can dock to a docking area regardless of dimensions as long as its mass/block count is <= the amount supported by that docking module (as long as its not clipping into anything)

 

[CAPTAINZACH]

AtraUnam: Congradualtions! Your suggestion made it into the main post! I find that idea quite interesting, as it's different than what I expected. If you have any further elaborations, please, let me know.
-CAPTAINZACH

 

[Fireshock]

Even if docking was mass based, game would still have to check docking area to make sure no collisions would occur.

As for where the front of the ship is facing when you dock.
I would like that ships can be docked in all 4 directions or in both directions if they are too large for other two. Direction in which you dock would be determined by direction from which you came(used docking beam). So 45 deegres in each 4 diagonal directions would be borders betwen docking in 2 different non diagonal directions. Like placing blocks in Minecraft.
This system could also be used for chosing default facing direction of each turret.

We should be able trigger docking with logic. Maybe by shoting straight docking beam.

 

[Lecic]

I think I'd like either mass based or landing gears, which only need activation from one side to work. If you've played Space Engineers, you'll know what I'm talking about.

 

[tr0njonen]

What about a "hook" based system. Smaller ships would require only one hook block to connect with a connector block. But larger ships would require multiple hooks or "hook enhancers" to dock with a connector block with multiple enhancers.

 

[Viridis00]

I'd really like to see a "clamp style" dock, simply so medium and large ships have a way to be docked without having to build some grandiose super-station docking bay. Pic related.

A way to go about it is instead of checking a box-dim, clamp style docks need to match shape. Then check for overlap and clipping on the overall ship. The two points would dock and in between the small space that docked entities have between them, have a physical graphical effect (like how we can interact with the plexlift's platform) bridge the two to make it seem airtight.

The matching hatches are a tradeoff for no box dims. But it would hardly be a problem because look at a lot of the ships on the community content section. The Hexagonal hatch is almost an unregulated standard shape for ports external and internal because they look so good on just about any ship.

 

[Valiant70]

Ah, I like the clamp-to-clamp docking with walkways. Want. Big want. So much want. It would be better yet if the "walkway" idea were literally built into the concept, at least optionally.

You've overlooked one very important and desirable option, however. For smaller ships, I'd like to see a simple magnetic clip that simply grabs onto hull. Think of the scene in "Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back" when the Milenium Falcon "stuck" itself on a star destroyer's aft to hide from sensors. You could grab a patch of hull or park in a hangar. This is an extremely flexible form of docking and is therefore a highly desirable solution.

 

[Viridis00]

You've overlooked one very important and desirable option, however. For smaller ships, I'd like to see a simple magnetic clip that simply grabs onto hull.

I think there actually was something like that in very early versions of Starmade if I recall that later got taken out because it was buggy or something. That was before I even knew the game existed. Might be cool if the idea was revisited, since I'm sure there could be some kind of solution in the modern sense of the game.

 

[tr0njonen]

Ah, I like the clamp-to-clamp docking with walkways. Want. Big want. So much want. It would be better yet if the "walkway" idea were literally built into the concept, at least optionally.

You've overlooked one very important and desirable option, however. For smaller ships, I'd like to see a simple magnetic clip that simply grabs onto hull. Think of the scene in "Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back" when the Milenium Falcon "stuck" itself on a star destroyer's aft to hide from sensors. You could grab a patch of hull or park in a hangar. This is an extremely flexible form of docking and is therefore a highly desirable solution.

Then you'd have giant intricate stations covered in hundreds of tiny fighters and dingys

 

[Valiant70]

Then you'd have giant intricate stations covered in hundreds of tiny fighters and dingys

Parking tickets... missiles... parking enforcement officials armed with something that can yank them off and throw them half a kilometer away... I can think of a lot of fixes for that.

 

[Mariux]

I like the clamp docking. I don't really see why it would e hard to do on small ships, plus the fact that you have to meneuver into the docking area yourself removes the need for any spacial colision detection to make sure the ships don't glitch into each other. I also like the mass based one, too. The latter might be easier to code in.

 

[Jegan Reavus]

I like the overall idea.

Several of these suggestions also bear similarities to some comments I made on a point-to-point docking thread a little while back, so I've linked them here for reference: http://starmadedock.net/threads/point-to-point-docking.1855/page-2#post-72333. My idea focused around not adding blocks, but adding functionality. It may also provide some insights as to how option number 3 could be implemented without hassle, by substituting my linking idea with a new block type, as suggested here.

 

[NoK0mm3nt]

Isn't part of the problem with other systems performance related? The current docking system means it can pre-calc the docking area and not have to do collision checks (It can do an extremely quick docking box size vs ship box size check when docking). All others, like mass based systems, have to check for any possible collisions. Sure, there are shortcuts like trimming check area down to overall box size, then using something like a Binary space partitioning, but at the end of the day, docking titans to complex stations will add strain/lag.

One of the issues people seem to want to solve is that it uses the core to determine the center of the docking area. What if it just centered the ships overall box (blue) in the docking box (green), rather than using the core to position it? It won't solve all the problems people have with docking, but it seems like it should be a much smaller code change without changing the performance implications of docking. Maybe a good intermediate step?

 

[Viridis00]

The current docking system means it can pre-calc the docking area and not have to do collision checks (It can do an extremely quick docking box size vs ship box size check when docking)

If time is the issue with non-boxdim docking, maybe the calc time can be "covered up" so to say by having point-to-point docking have a small time frame where the hatches do some kind of cool animation as they connect to each other to distract the player from the fact that the game is actually doing calculations.

 

[CAPTAINZACH]

OKAY, one thing that I think needs to be said:

Mass-based docking, while SOUNDING like a good idea (and maybe it is, I'm not sure), is more likely than not an all together different matter with coding. I'm trying to make items that work within the realms of reason for the next update, so that devs will be able to see what the community wants. I may even make a vote. However, players like us must also realize that sometimes things don't work out as planned.
This means that the simplest options will probably be the ones implemented. I know you guys all have great ideas, and i'm working to get them added into the post. Please be patient.

Even if docking was mass based, game would still have to check docking area to make sure no collisions would occur.

As for where the front of the ship is facing when you dock.
I would like that ships can be docked in all 4 directions or in both directions if they are too large for other two. Direction in which you dock would be determined by direction from which you came(used docking beam). So 45 deegres in each 4 diagonal directions would be borders betwen docking in 2 different non diagonal directions. Like placing blocks in Minecraft.
This system could also be used for chosing default facing direction of each turret.

We should be able trigger docking with logic. Maybe by shoting straight docking beam.

Indeed, while I personally do not enjoy the idea of mass-based docking, It was a unique enough idea to warrant addition to my own. Your system is also interesting, and if you would like to elaborated further I would be happy to add it as well...

What about a "hook" based system. Smaller ships would require only one hook block to connect with a connector block. But larger ships would require multiple hooks or "hook enhancers" to dock with a connector block with multiple enhancers.

This is similar to the clamp-based system I had in mind, however...this is a relatively different beast to implement. Your's requires hooks to be based on mass, with a massive amount of blocks for mass-based connection. Mine was more along the lines of two clamps (or sets of clamps, on on each ship) would latch together, bonding the two entities together until undocking (or shear stress destroyed them).

I'd really like to see a "clamp style" dock, simply so medium and large ships have a way to be docked without having to build some grandiose super-station docking bay. Pic related.

A way to go about it is instead of checking a box-dim, clamp style docks need to match shape. Then check for overlap and clipping on the overall ship. The two points would dock and in between the small space that docked entities have between them, have a physical graphical effect (like how we can interact with the plexlift's platform) bridge the two to make it seem airtight.

The matching hatches are a tradeoff for no box dims. But it would hardly be a problem because look at a lot of the ships on the community content section. The Hexagonal hatch is almost an unregulated standard shape for ports external and internal because they look so good on just about any ship.

Okay, That is sorta what I was going for myself. Good thinking there, and I suppose I should elaborate further

Ah, I like the clamp-to-clamp docking with walkways. Want. Big want. So much want. It would be better yet if the "walkway" idea were literally built into the concept, at least optionally.

You've overlooked one very important and desirable option, however. For smaller ships, I'd like to see a simple magnetic clip that simply grabs onto hull. Think of the scene in "Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back" when the Milenium Falcon "stuck" itself on a star destroyer's aft to hide from sensors. You could grab a patch of hull or park in a hangar. This is an extremely flexible form of docking and is therefore a highly desirable solution.

Magnetic? You mean like the glitchy "Plex Lander"? Um...there was a reason why that's no longer in the game (it is, but it never worked and you have to use Admin commands to spawn it in). As for walkways...perhaps some of the Plex Lifter platforms could be used, at least in theory.

I like the overall idea.

Several of these suggestions also bear similarities to some comments I made on a point-to-point docking thread a little while back, so I've linked them here for reference: http://starmadedock.net/threads/point-to-point-docking.1855/page-2#post-72333. My idea focused around not adding blocks, but adding functionality. It may also provide some insights as to how option number 3 could be implemented without hassle, by substituting my linking idea with a new block type, as suggested here.

Thanks for sharing! I'll have a look and if any of them are unique I'll add them here. keep in mind this is an attempt at making a post where the topic can become consolidated into a reasonable form that the devs will take notice of, so if the ideas seem too far fetched to be reasonable, I probably won't post (or repost) them here.

UPDATE: I read your comment (I thought it was a post for a while), and I must say your idea is more sound than some of the others I've heard. There is just on problem...the "Tube" block idea would more likely than no create a box that was un-enterable. (If not, then it Might work, but I highly doubt it). However, your idea about docking clamps checking the size of the doorway IS something I've thought about myself. All in all, not bad, and I will consider adding your idea to the post.

Isn't part of the problem with other systems performance related? The current docking system means it can pre-calc the docking area and not have to do collision checks (It can do an extremely quick docking box size vs ship box size check when docking). All others, like mass based systems, have to check for any possible collisions. Sure, there are shortcuts like trimming check area down to overall box size, then using something like a Binary space partitioning, but at the end of the day, docking titans to complex stations will add strain/lag.

One of the issues people seem to want to solve is that it uses the core to determine the center of the docking area. What if it just centered the ships overall box (blue) in the docking box (green), rather than using the core to position it? It won't solve all the problems people have with docking, but it seems like it should be a much smaller code change without changing the performance implications of docking. Maybe a good intermediate step?

This is very true. Option 1 I posted is this system essentially, in which the requirement of the "Core-Centric" docking is removed, and the requirement is only that the ship's size (Blue Box) fits into the docking area (Green Box). This is Realistic when docking smaller ships, but when larger ships are involved, the capabilities become much harder (and less likely to control).

When trying to dock a crusier (that was non-core-centric, which was why it didn't dock)I had to extend my docking area many times upwards. The only way to do that was to build DOWN, making a massive area that stuck out. Even if I did put a hull section below it and flesh out the area below the docking bay, there would still be this massive pillar right in the way. as such, I'm also trying to make it easier for players to dock larger ships.