Co-pilot Blocks, Maybe?

[CyberTao]

Might have been suggested before, but I don't recall seeing it. Could be tangled into that massive multi-paged debate about chairs, but don't have the patience to look xD

Idea is simple, add a new block that allows a 2nd player to enter your ship, and control a group of weapons and Turrets. I feel this is possible because of how weapons Currently work; The weapon's computer MUST be linked to the Core of the ship in order to use said weapons system while flying (Press C on the Core, and you'll see all your weapon computers pulsing in Purple).
So why not create a 2nd block that can also be linked to multiple weapons computers? I'm working on a ship that will have 4 separate lock-on missile arrays. Not something I could use myself in battle and I would need a few extra people just to man them!

An extension of this idea would be to Have Turret docking linked to the core/Copilot block as well. The idea being you can divide up your turrets into multiple Groups set to "Fire at selected". Would allow for more control over which ships your turrets will target, and may give a slight advantage to Large ships with Onboard Player Crew during multiple ship encounters.

I dunno, just a thought I had.

 

[Ithirahad]

My chair idea would allow for this. You could link multiple computers to a chair, so one person could fly and fire the main weapons, and another could man the missile launcher and kinetic beams.

 

[DrTarDIS]

...I'm working on a ship that will have 4 separate lock-on missile arrays. Not something I could use myself in battle and I would need a few extra people just to man them!
I dunno, just a thought I had.

Don't get me wrong: i like the ideas you put here. But for a CURRENT build work around, your "crew" can get into the weapons computer(s) in question, and hold right-shift to be able to lock-on to things outside the normal view arc.

 

[NeonSturm]

I am not a fan of right shift at all.

I rather want actions on space bar, and look around on my alt-key for example. but some bug does not like this.

 

[RoyalWolfe]

I didn't want to say anything when I first spotted this yesterday as I was involved in the contest drama. this subject causes about the same amount of drama. the reason this particular topic of chairs being used to control ships is so controversial, is two fold, it requires the core to be depreciated in use, and it adds a more complex level of logic to be added to the new chair item.

the first problem is a level of decision which only can be resolved by schema himself, he must decide who he want to piss off more, the ones that want more control over their ships, or the ones that want their core to do it all. when or how that will happen is unlikely to ever be, because neither side is willing to compromise.

this is one of those rare things that fall into the realm of we just cant do it. for two reasons the fact that no one will be happy on either side of the argument, the other because we lack the means.

what I mean is that this is something that requires some complex coding. schema has let us edit blocks somewhat we can change textures and appearances, but most of their functions are hard coded, and that is the problem right there. to do what is needed we would have to get the code with the control ship entity portions from the current block, in the current case the core block, and apply this code to be moved, removed, copied, or whatever else we wanted to do with it, to whatever block we now wanted it to be. this is the one function that is missing in the block editor. we think he did this partly to protect the games integrity, cant break the game by typos in the code.

this is also one thing a lot of big well funded gaming companies often do to protect their games as well, the elder scrolls series was one that did this by selling the very tools used to make the game. they however structured the public version of that tool set so that the games base code was unbreakable, or at least robust enough to not break. they didn't always succeed, but that's why they did it, to protect their game's playability.

 

[CyberTao]

Don't get me wrong: i like the ideas you put here. But for a CURRENT build work around, your "crew" can get into the weapons computer(s) in question, and hold right-shift to be able to lock-on to things outside the normal view arc.

I am well aware, hence I said it would take 2-4 People to Run my weapons without said system.
I House 4 Arrays of Lock-on missiles, so 4 Weapons computers. Merging the groups together would briung energy costs through the roof, and merging the groups would kill the effect I was going for. Take in the locking speed, and it would take a while to use said missiles, to the point I would either have to abandon them in a fight, use only them, or Get Several People to get in the computers and idle around while they cooldown.

I dunno, My choices right now are to get 4 (2 might work depending on the layout and gravity derps in battle), or Remove some of the groups/Arrays, Which would mean I would have to redesign my entire back end of the ship.

Besides, the idea is about more then Just missiles :p

I didn't want to say anything when I first spotted this yesterday as I was involved in the contest drama. this subject causes about the same amount of drama. the reason this particular topic of chairs being used to control ships is so controversial, is two fold, it requires the core to be depreciated in use, and it adds a more complex level of logic to be added to the new chair item.

the first problem is a level of decision which only can be resolved by schema himself, he must decide who he want to piss off more, the ones that want more control over their ships, or the ones that want their core to do it all. when or how that will happen is unlikely to ever be, because neither side is willing to compromise.

this is one of those rare things that fall into the realm of we just cant do it. for two reasons the fact that no one will be happy on either side of the argument, the other because we lack the means.

what I mean is that this is something that requires some complex coding. schema has let us edit blocks somewhat we can change textures and appearances, but most of their functions are hard coded, and that is the problem right there. to do what is needed we would have to get the code with the control ship entity portions from the current block, in the current case the core block, and apply this code to be moved, removed, copied, or whatever else we wanted to do with it, to whatever block we now wanted it to be. this is the one function that is missing in the block editor. we think he did this partly to protect the games integrity, cant break the game by typos in the code.

this is also one thing a lot of big well funded gaming companies often do to protect their games as well, the elder scrolls series was one that did this by selling the very tools used to make the game. they however structured the public version of that tool set so that the games base code was unbreakable, or at least robust enough to not break. they didn't always succeed, but that's why they did it, to protect their game's playability.

This isn't a Suggestion About Chairs. This is a suggestion about a Supporting Block. I only Mentioned Chairs cause i thought it MIGHT have been mentioned in one of those Threads. I honestly dont care about chairs personally, its one of those that could be added Via a Mod, or Redundancy in the game.

The idea is a block. Basically a 2nd Core that can be added that doesn't Control thrust. A fancier CPU that you can Link Turrets and Weapons to if you want. It doesnt TAKE anything anything away from people to just have 1 core, Rather it gives grounds for people who WANT a Co-pilot.

The only real advantage is that Players in charge of multiple Turret groups Could give you an advantage. Say the Main Turret Array is Ion based and secondary turrets are Punch or Explosives. 1 Player can shift the Ion Turrets to Targets that still have shields (Since they do 0 hull damage), and the other can aim the Punch/Pierce/Explosive turrets at enemies that have lost their shields (since they do reduced shield damage). But that depends on the design of the ship.

All it does is give people the option to fly together. The Advantage is that Human Intelligence Surpasses Turret AI.

 

[NeonSturm]

Lock-on missiles are bad.
You should either be able to lock-on while using any weapon and use that pre-lock-on after switching to missiles, or allow some activation block or master computer to activate more than one missile computer directly from the hot-key bar.

 

[Megacrafter127]

Lock-on missiles are bad.
You should either be able to lock-on while using any weapon and use that pre-lock-on after switching to missiles, or allow some activation block or master computer to activate more than one missile computer directly from the hot-key bar.

If you switch from 1 fully locked-on missile computer to another lock-on missile computer, the lock-on remains.

 

[NeonSturm]

But you will not fire your cannon-cannon-punchTrough setup during this time.

You are forced to have long reload weapons to not waste fire-power while you fire your missiles.

You are also forced to make missiles with pulse-slave to hit different targets and have enough time to lock-on before your first is enabled again (shield disabler for example, to make your turrets able to do hull damage with shield-inefficient weapons)

But then you suffer from not firing low-cd cannons with slaved cannons even more.



I call that an artificial limitation.

 

[CyberTao]

The majority of Ships are set up to have 2 weapon sets mainly, a Shield breaker and a Hull crusher.

If you want to have a assist weapon (Something like a weapon equipped with stop), you could Use Fixed Docking and Embed the Weapon into your ship, leaving only the opening exposed.
Using this system you can set up all sorts of interesting combinations, since Assist weapons will Always fire when someone is infront of you (Or beside you, if you can get the chain docking to work). Could make a really slow ship with Stop-assist setups to hold the enemy in place for example.

Its a Sandbox, part of the fun is trying to figure out what you can make with what you're given. I just suggested this system and used my ship as an example because of the location and effect of my missiles (They are near the rear, behind a row of turrets and will arc up and down).

 

[Gamel]

A choice to control turrets!? Bro, plz let me be your co-pilot if this works in the further

 

[jayman38]

So... Manned turrets? It would still require a redesign and wouldn't be as efficient as built-in weaponry, but it sounds possible right now without a new block.

 

[RoyalWolfe]

This isn't a Suggestion About Chairs.

yes it is regardless of your attempt to say other wise it is similar enough that it is and my point that it will be regarded as such and your further argument to the contrary still proves my point this point is never going to end if you aren't willing to listen to both sides.

 

[CyberTao]

yes it is regardless of your attempt to say other wise it is similar enough that it is and my point that it will be regarded as such and your further argument to the contrary still proves my point this point is never going to end if you aren't willing to listen to both sides.

You obvious don't understand my Viewpoint on chairs then, do you?
In my opinion, you just add a BLOCK, then use MODs to turn said block into a chair (Preferably a 'official' RP modpack, Something Omni and Kupu could do to Cater to RP servers and Players while leaving the Main Game alone), because some people don't want to have to worry about being shot out of a chair, and adding 2 blocks that do the same thing adds redundancy and annoyances since people would still argue which block to use.

THIS IDEA is about LINKING weapons to a BLOCK. What that Block is, I never said, I left that for DEVs to DECIDE. Might be just a normal block, and the idea would still work just fine, since 2 players will be able to enter the ship. The SHIP CORE IS an example of THIS IDEA, since weapons are LINKED to it in order to fire, and Turrets are LINKED as well (Though there is no Visible Link, I like to imagine there is for this idea).
With THIS IDEA you could LINK WEAPONs and TURRETs to a SEPERATE block, other then the SHIP CORE. My Honest thoughts was for a 1x1x1 BLOCK because that would be EASIER in this point of the Game.

You CAN have MORE then 1 person on said ship, and they would HELP in Combat and Turret Targeting.
I really dont care if it was added via chairs or a normal Block, since that is NOT part of THIS IDEA. THIS IDEA is about LINKING WEAPONs and TURRETs to something that is NOT the SHIP CORE so that Multiple Pilots are MORE VIABLE.

I WAS part of one of those Chair Debates as well, I left when people started repeating themselves in their Arguments. I know both sides to a varying degree, hence my Stand for a Official RP Modpack (And maybe an option on the Launcher to select it) in Beta.

Notice; IMPORTANT KEYWORDS are in all Caps, and if I sound annoyed/agressive, its cause Lord has been grating on my Last few nerves for a while, and I legit almost wrote an entire "Fuck off" post o Ao
I am not used to anger pwp It's Scary

 

[NeonSturm]

Spoiler: A good counter (WARNING: Offtopic)

The majority of Ships are set up to have 2 weapon sets mainly, a Shield breaker and a Hull crusher

You know that punch-through and pierce have by default efficiency = 100%-armour?
If you have hardened hull + 50% effect, you will be immune to them.

Unfortunately it is quite easy to modify weapons to not use an effect if you notice you do 0 damage or just break the layer of hardened hull with missiles, leaving the deeper layers vulnerable to 50% more punch-through.

I don't know if piercing is able to penetrate even if it does no damage due to armour on the first block, but hope it does.

 

[CyberTao]

Spoiler: A good counter (WARNING: Offtopic)

You know that punch-through and pierce have by default efficiency = 100%-armour?
If you have hardened hull + 50% effect, you will be immune to them.

Unfortunately it is quite easy to modify weapons to not use an effect if you notice you do 0 damage or just break the layer of hardened hull with missiles, leaving the deeper layers vulnerable to 50% more punch-through.

I don't know if piercing is able to penetrate even if it does no damage due to armour on the first block, but hope it does.

Spoiler: OffTopic response to off topic

Weither or not there is a counter does not matter, since getting an effect up to that level Takes space and power, and not everyone would go 100% support weapon all the time.

Whats more, "Hull Crusher" is not exclusive to just Punch and Pierce, it includes explosive and Overdrive (with missiles or shotgun arrays for example) as well. So while such a specialty Ship would be extremely effective against Ships using Punch (Pierce should be able to penetrate anyways I think? Not sure), it would only be good for a few battles before the enemy adjusts their weapons to counter. (Unless the Strategy is "Throw things at it until it dies")

That being said, I thought the armour bonus was a Percent thing? like if HH had 50% armour and you boosted it 50% more with effects, it would end up as 75% Armour?
If it really is Addition like that, then there may be minor Abuse with the HP system sorta (Since a faction module has 99% armour, +50% would heal you for 49% of damage)

 

[NeonSturm]

Spoiler: An off-topic response to your off-topic

Weither or not there is a counter does not matter, since getting an effect up to that level Takes space and power, and not everyone would go 100% support weapon all the time.

Whats more, "Hull Crusher" is not exclusive to just Punch and Pierce, it includes explosive and Overdrive (with missiles or shotgun arrays for example) as well. So while such a specialty Ship would be extremely effective against Ships using Punch (Pierce should be able to penetrate anyways I think? Not sure), it would only be good for a few battles before the enemy adjusts their weapons to counter. (Unless the Strategy is "Throw things at it until it dies")

That being said, I thought the armour bonus was a Percent thing? like if HH had 50% armour and you boosted it 50% more with effects, it would end up as 75% Armour?
If it really is Addition like that, then there may be minor Abuse with the HP system sorta (Since a faction module has 99% armour, +50% would heal you for 49% of damage)

I hope it is additive 50% + 50%, because it would make hull more useful.

I guess 149% armour would either be capped to 100% or negative damage will get 0 damage (except the weapon is meant to restore).
If not and you don't want to heal an enemy faction module, just don't shoot it.

If effects remain active when you left the core, you may 2-layer ships with hardened hull and push-effect (armour) on the outside.
It will not be shielded, but could make you immune vs ion, punch-through and maybe EMP while alive.
Of-course they are not invincible vs pierce (core and computer are the 2 sweet spots), but it may absorb some shots if the enemy does not fire very accurate.

 

[SapioiT]

Don't get me wrong: i like the ideas you put here. But for a CURRENT build work around, your "crew" can get into the weapons computer(s) in question, and hold right-shift to be able to lock-on to things outside the normal view arc.

Yes, but can they use more than one weapon while in that computer? We want something that would allow us to also pilot the ship, if noone is in the core or in a previously places pilot seat. And we also want another block which would allow us to fire multiple computers at once.

My chair idea would allow for this. You could link multiple computers to a chair, so one person could fly and fire the main weapons, and another could man the missile launcher and kinetic beams.

Link, please?

 

[Snk]

+1

 

[CyberTao]

+1

inb4 banned for grave digging.

Would be interesting to see how the community's opinion on this is these days.