Burst Fire Block

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Oh yeah BTW


Easy Burst Fire with logic!

 

[ltmauve]

Well, I can't control how many shots I'm burst-firing.

 

[NeonSturm]

I think the idea is to choose between hit&run ability and dps.

You should have the dps to disable a shield, but then in advance do much less damage. Think of Klingon War-birds.

Aren't those things completely overpowered... I mean, they can take out ships many times their size...

Exactly what I wanted to point out. But I think we should speak of cost rather than size.

 

[Vyor]

Exactly what I wanted to point out. But I think we should speak of cost rather than size.

How much are you willing to spend to OHKO a ship?

 

[NeonSturm]

How much are you willing to spend to OHKO a ship?

A ship is either an al-rounder or specialist. How much defensive power do you want an al-rounder or specialist to have as minimum compared to other equipped stuff to survive the repeated hit&runs?
The attacked ship needs either a fast reaction time and constant fire to not let the stealth hit&runner escape or enough defensive power to be immune.
But if you fight against an immune but offensively weak ship in groups, it has never a chance to even damage on of your group because it requires huge percentages in defensive blocks.

Optimally, I want it scissor > paper > rock

 

[Vyor]

A ship is either an al-rounder or specialist. How much defensive power do you want an al-rounder or specialist to have as minimum compared to other equipped stuff to survive the repeated hit&runs?
The attacked ship needs either a fast reaction time and constant fire to not let the stealth hit&runner escape or enough defensive power to be immune.
But if you fight against an immune but offensively weak ship in groups, it has never a chance to even damage on of your group because it requires huge percentages in defensive blocks.

Optimally, I want it scissor > paper > rock

I get that, I do... but burst fire is too powerful... so, you hit a rock right, not too effective... until you get more dynamite...

 

[ltmauve]

I suppose what neonstrum is saying is that burst fire should require a glass cannon, or have the burst be ineffective against ships of similar mass.
Vyor Please at least try to come up with a suggestion rather than just repeating OHKO OP. We get that you think that

 

[Vyor]

I suppose what neonstrum is saying is that burst fire should require a glass cannon, or have the burst be ineffective against ships of similar mass.
Vyor Please at least try to come up with a suggestion rather than just repeating OHKO OP. We get that you think that

In order to balance this you would have to make each rocket do less damage. This would turn it into a swarm missile launcher... which is in the weapons update that is planned... So, there is no way to balance this.

 

[ltmauve]

Is that the only way you could think of?

• Slower projectile speed
• Requiring charging before firing in addition to reload.
• Increased energy cost
• Massive power spikes that interfere with engines
• Ammunition
• Inaccuracy
• Decreased range
• Any of the above, or with the mechanisms suggested in the OP.

Also, allow me to point out that missiles are slightly OP right now, considering the fact that they do damage for every block in the radius. The damage to shields should be something more like dmg * radius, or something that doesn't allow gunboats to punch holes in the sides of fully shielded frigates with a single salvo. This suggestion would be OP with the current missile system, but should hopefully not be OP with the new weapons update.

And also, let me point out that this could be used with all classes of weapons, such as minelayers, beams, and pulsars. Creating a pulsar that is continuously active for a long period of time with a high cooldown is one thing this weapon could enable. Also, minelayers! Get out there, mine a sector up to max in about five minutes, and then you can't use that minelayer for half an hour.

Also, the penalties I listed in the OP have numbers that are just guesses, and will probably wind up being different based on weapon type, slave type, weapon size, and maybe even ship size.

 

[Vyor]

Is that the only way you could think of?

• Slower projectile speed
• Requiring charging before firing in addition to reload.
• Increased energy cost
• Massive power spikes that interfere with engines
• Ammunition
• Inaccuracy
• Decreased range
• Any of the above, or with the mechanisms suggested in the OP.

Also, allow me to point out that missiles are slightly OP right now, considering the fact that they do damage for every block in the radius. The damage to shields should be something more like dmg * radius, or something that doesn't allow gunboats to punch holes in the sides of fully shielded frigates with a single salvo. This suggestion would be OP with the current missile system, but should hopefully not be OP with the new weapons update.

And also, let me point out that this could be used with all classes of weapons, such as minelayers, beams, and pulsars. Creating a pulsar that is continuously active for a long period of time with a high cooldown is one thing this weapon could enable. Also, minelayers! Get out there, mine a sector up to max in about five minutes, and then you can't use that minelayer for half an hour.

Also, the penalties I listed in the OP have numbers that are just guesses, and will probably wind up being different based on weapon type, slave type, weapon size, and maybe even ship size.

Swarm missiles make this suggestion obsolete. They will likely have all but the ammo and power spikes... ya see my point?

 

[ltmauve]

Swarm missiles make this suggestion obsolete. They will likely have all but the ammo and power spikes... ya see my point?

No, the swarm missiles are a single event that unleashes a high number of missiles. This allows any weapon with a slow firing rate to release multiple shots sequentially, and controllably. For example, I could burst-fire heavy missiles into a station, destroying most of it once the shields are down, then move in with cannons or maybe ordinary missiles to finish it off.

And those were suggestions, not a list of all the nerfs that should be implemented. Some types of weapons may be more balanced with one technique than another (for example, missiles would probably be checked by slow projectile speed, while lasers would get power spikes)

 

[NeonSturm]

How about partially damage-transparent shields?
A fully charged shield could absorb 20% or it's strength in damage while an almost drained can only absorb 10% of it's full-charged strength (EXAMPLES!)

This together with more resistant hulls could allow burst-fire to actually do damage while it is not OP in terms of core-drilling.

Repeated hit&runs have the problems of:

1. Catching a fleeing ship (max speed is the same for every ship)
2. Getting away from a bigger ship once you catched it's pilot's attention.

 

[Ithirahad]

Oh yeah BTW


Easy Burst Fire with logic!

Fire photon torpedoes! Full spread!

...Now if only we could get seeker missiles to target if fired that way.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Fire photon torpedoes! Full spread!

...Now if only we could get seeker missiles to target if fired that way.

When you can use activator blocks via your quick bar while flying a ship, I bet we will be able to target and fire volleys like that.

 

[testkil]

nice

 

[ltmauve]

How about partially damage-transparent shields?
A fully charged shield could absorb 20% or it's strength in damage while an almost drained can only absorb 10% of it's full-charged strength (EXAMPLES!)

This together with more resistant hulls could allow burst-fire to actually do damage while it is not OP in terms of core-drilling.

Repeated hit&runs have the problems of:

1. Catching a fleeing ship (max speed is the same for every ship)
2. Getting away from a bigger ship once you catched it's pilot's attention.

So basically missiles start punching holes in hull before the shields go down? That makes them even more OP than before.

 

[Vyor]

No, the swarm missiles are a single event that unleashes a high number of missiles. This allows any weapon with a slow firing rate to release multiple shots sequentially, and controllably.

You mean this exact suggestion???

Weapons have a slow firing rate for a reason... balance. You remove that, and they do too much DPS... sure it may have a cooldown... but that doesn't matter when the other ship has no shields...

 

[ltmauve]

You do not understand what I'm talking about, do you? This is not a missile mechanic, it is a mechanic for ALL WEAPONS. Go back and read all of the other posts thoroughly, until you actually understand them. You are not contributing to the conversation anymore; please stop spamming "It's OP so no ********* way."

 

[NeonSturm]

How about partially damage-transparent shields?
A fully charged shield could absorb 20% or it's strength in damage while an almost drained can only absorb 10% of it's full-charged strength (EXAMPLES!)

This together with more resistant hulls could allow burst-fire to actually do damage while it is not OP in terms of core-drilling.

Repeated hit&runs have the problems of:

1. Catching a fleeing ship (max speed is the same for every ship)
2. Getting away from a bigger ship once you catched it's pilot's attention.

So basically missiles !!!WEAPONS!!! start punching holes in hull before the shields go down? That makes them even more OP than before.

Fixed.
No, it would would allow for longer-lasting combats, as peoples can also try to stockpile enough fire-power to initially damage critical systems through shields, making their continuous dps a lot worse.

I think this would also encourage building some hull, though you don't have to repair your whole ship (just a single point) as it is better to focus damage on a line, cross or double-cross for maximum array-splitting.

 

[Vyor]

You do not understand what I'm talking about, do you? This is not a missile mechanic, it is a mechanic for ALL WEAPONS. Go back and read all of the other posts thoroughly, until you actually understand them. You are not contributing to the conversation anymore; please stop spamming "It's OP so no ********* way."

If it is for all weapons then it can be used for missiles... even if it can't be used for missiles it is still too powerful, or not powerful enough. It would weaken AMCs and strengthen pulsars(when they eventually do damage), missiles, possibly lasers, and minelayers to ridiculous degrees. You shouldn't be able to mine an entire system in a few minutes, or even a few hours. You shouldn't be able to take down shields in 1 vollee. You shouldn't be able to do 10 thousand damage in 1-2 seconds unless you have a massive gun(10 burst rounds, 1k damage each, not a very big gun).