Power Calculation (Cloak)

[Rhyssia]

First, This is NOT my work. I think it belongs to "Gilgamesh038"(???), I found it on the old forums, as far as I know it is still relevant. (And VERY useful)

It shows the required energy for cloaking with an additional column detailing how many additional blocks can be supported.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ZENWY0JadmJMUFpUaVNURlhFNVE&usp=sharing#gid=0

Spoiler

--Gilgamesh038---

Power Generation and Perma Cloak/Jam Table & Calculations
So I've been studying the Theoretical Math for weeks now trying to crack the power generator Code.

My Desire is to create an awesome, as small and powerfull as possible Stealth Fighter

So heres the Math behind it all.

I used Trafalgar's Formula For Energy Per Block Here (http://star-made.org/content/power-generation-cracking-code)

(1/(1+1.00069^-(((X+Y+Z)/3)^1.7005*0.333))-0.5)*2*1000000 + 25 * (Total # of Blocks)

You can type this into Google calc and plug in your values for the X,Y,Z and then the total # of blocks and BAM, you get your E/s

Then using excel i mapped out The number of blocks including in the X,Y,Z directions. now this is all for ONE Generator Which is all Unique Blocks. If that confuses you Read the aforementioned post before reading this because it wont make sense to you.

Now, it does not matter which orientation you use with your generator whether its 3 in the X direction, 7 in the Y direction, 1 in the Z direction. because that would have the same Regen as a straight line of 9 blocks as long as they are all unique blocks, (means they are the built in the most efficient way, again refer to previous link)

So this table calculates the number of unique blocks in a generator given the input of # of blocks in X,Y,Z Directions, then calculates the amount of E/s given from that one generator then takes the total number of blocks only taking into account the power blocks, the core, the radar jammer, and the cloaker and calculates the amount of power needed to cloak and jam that Permanantly, then it tells you how many left over blocks you have available to use for guns or shields or thrusters, or hull if you want.

there will ALWAYS be at least 1 block in every direction even if its only one power gen block, because that one block is 1x, 1y, and 1z at the same time. so 10 long line would be 10x, 1y, 1z

Now all of this is assuming the power generation formula i got from Trafalgar is correct. but from in game testing and comparing its pretty dang close from what I've seen on some of the small scales.

If you guys find a better power generation formula PLEASE let me know, and all HELP FULL Feed back is appreciated.

Heres the Table with Calculated Values on Google Docs

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnEEHeYdJqWqdG16ZENWY0JadmJ...

Also Note that in this Table the formula used does not accurately calculate the actual values in game, but is only off by a very small margin, like once you get into the hundred mark its only off by about 100-200 E/s which is very small if you've got a ship big enough to run a 100 continuous block.

Source: http://oldsite.star-made.org/content/power-generation-and-perma-cloakjam-table-calculations

 

[max stripe]

this was changed in the update
cloak uses alot more power

 

[ToyotaSupra]

The maths need to be redone on this. Who's that user who really likes numbers? He could find out our calculations and such, then someone could make an infographic with them on it. I think the user is @NeonSturm but I might be wrong.

Though, it might be best waiting till full release in case the calc changes again.

 

[NeonSturm]

145 e / block as defined in blockBehaviourConfig.xml

With default power supply mechanisms you need 2-3 times as much e generation with docked reactors and you need a bit of power-storage to avoid a power-outage in laggy situations.

 

[max stripe]

145 e / block as defined in blockBehaviourConfig.xml

With default power supply mechanisms you need 2-3 times as much e generation with docked reactors and you need a bit of power-storage to avoid a power-outage in laggy situations.

so cloak uses less power but power gens dont generate as much power?

 

[der_scheme]

Uhm, nothing has changed that would affect that spreadsheet. Cloaking and jamming together still consume 150 power per block per second.

 

[max stripe]

Uhm, nothing has changed that would affect that spreadsheet. Cloaking and jamming together still consume 150 power per block per second.

nope tested my cloaker right after it updated and the cloak burned threw all my power in seconds when before the update it could perma cloak and jam along with firing swarm missles then recloaking in under a second
they either made cloaker use more power or power gens generate less

 

[NeonSturm]

I think power generate less

when did you used it last time? sure the server has default config? (reactors/cloak/jam)?

 

[max stripe]

i built it on elwyn eternity before the update and tested it in sp worked fine
used it on elwyn eternity right after the server updated couldnt cloak tested in sp also couldnt cloak

 

[Rhyssia]

Spreadsheet should be 100% accurate to current starmade default settings. Buuuuut, just in case I'll double check in a little bit

 

[Rhyssia]

17 x1 x1 box of [DEFAULT SETTINGS] energy reactors produce 3095.8 E/S you can go check this out right now on your own SP, So that part of the chart is correct.

Cloak uses 145 E/S
Jamming uses 5 E/S

This means a Core + cloak + Jamming +17 energy reactors would need [total blocks(20)] x 150 energy/s or 150 x2 (300) x 10 (3000) E/S

@max stripe , Did you account for server lag? I remember reading another post that someone had a perma cloak ship on SP, but because of MP lag the drain on the total energy capacity would empty his energy before it would update the regen to the server. He was able to solve his issue modifying the design to add more energy tanks.

P.S. I think the ratio is to shoot for 5 seconds of cloak if all your energy reactors decided to turn off but still have their mass accounted for cloak should fix your issue.

P.P.S. There was an updated that added the turrets to cloak calculation now, so they're no longer "free mass" iirc

 

[max stripe]

17 x1 x1 box of [DEFAULT SETTINGS] energy reactors produce 3095.8 E/S you can go check this out right now on your own SP, So that part of the chart is correct.

Cloak uses 145 E/S
Jamming uses 5 E/S

This means a Core + cloak + Jamming +17 energy reactors would need [total blocks(20)] x 150 energy/s or 150 x2 (300) x 10 (3000) E/S

@max stripe , Did you account for server lag? I remember reading another post that someone had a perma cloak ship on SP, but because of MP lag the drain on the total energy capacity would empty his energy before it would update the regen to the server. He was able to solve his issue modifying the design to add more energy tanks.

P.S. I think the ratio is to shoot for 5 seconds of cloak if all your energy reactors decided to turn off but still have their mass accounted for cloak should fix your issue.

P.P.S. There was an updated that added the turrets to cloak calculation now, so they're no longer "free mass" iirc

it didnt even work in SP

 

[Rhyssia]

Whats your total mass and energy regen? (including turrets. I think it's maximum bounding box size, so a normal un enhanced dock would be 7x7x7, regardless of how big the actual turret is)

 

[max stripe]

even after jetisoning hte turrets it wouldnt work
atm i do not know the size since im not on SM right now

 

[Rhyssia]

Did you remove the docking modules after jettisoning the turrets? Because if I recall correctly. It counts the docking area as "full" regardless of the size of, or presence of an attached object (ship or turret) For example, having one unenhanced docking module will add 7x7(49) x7(343) mass. Even if there is no turret, or ship currently attached to the main ship.

-edit-
Power consumption on any active effect (E.G. Jammer, Ion, Etc) Now seems to have a variable drain instead of a constant. Which means that you'll want to keep your recharge about 5-10% higher (per system) than the chart value to account for fluctuations.)

Maths

Spoiler

Power Drain on 17+3 blocks had shown values ranging from 3000.4 to 3030.0 with rare momentary spikes reaching 3079.8

 

[NeonSturm]

Did you remove the docking modules after jettisoning the turrets? Because if I recall correctly. It counts the docking area as "full" regardless of the size of, or presence of an attached object (ship or turret) For example, having one unenhanced docking module will add 7x7(49) x7(343) mass. Even if there is no turret, or ship currently attached to the main ship.

really? is that already in http://bugs.star-made.org/projects/starmade-game/issues and can you reproduce it?
If not ask a tester to report/confirm it (who is a tester? http://bugs.star-made.org/projects/starmade-game)

EDIT: In the new dev displayed mass (build mode) does not include docked ships. Where do you check that value?
Please don't share false information. Provide pictures and test it in the latest dev or it didn't happen

 

[Rhyssia]

really? is that already in http://bugs.star-made.org/projects/starmade-game/issues ? If not ask a tester to report/confirm it (who is a tester? http://bugs.star-made.org/projects/starmade-game)

EDIT: In the new dev displayed mass (build mode) does not include docked ships. Where do you check that value?
Please don't distribute false information. Provide pictures and test it in the latest dev or it didn't happen

It was not in the test version. I believe it was around v1.5 (I'll double check) but it was when I was working on a docked energy generator and was having issues with the ship/turret and drain/power beam.

Also as you quoted me saying. If I recall correctly. I had no intention of stating my experience as fact. I am sorry if it came across as such.

-Edit-
I am unable to reproduce a change of mass with an unoccupied docking module using the latest main branch release. So the only other assumption would to be observing the energy const value that is shown with your energy bar to determine correct energy drain values.

I also apologize to anyone else who may have taken my innaccuracies as fact in correlation to docking and mass.

 

[NeonSturm]

I didn't meant you to do it intentionally. But peoples often miss-understand each other

I guess I skipped that part while reading fast through it.
But I didn't meant to offend you -> Quote: "Provide pictures and test it in the latest dev or it didn't happen " (The smiley is still happy)


I think drain should reduce regeneration and decrease your power capacity while active. that is a lot more lag-stable (Eve online does it this way -> reducing capacity while certain systems are active).
Your power bar would then be reduced only by negative production instead of random takes.

 

[Rhyssia]

I can understand your ideas on miscommunication

As far as energy drain. I think it would be better to have each system act as a reduction of overall generation as well. Then using an algorithm based on active systems.

But, as stated by the new (proposed) movement system. This method may cause issues with thrusters.

-edit-
proposed movement system =
http://starmadedock.net/threads/thrust-mechanics-explained.2696/

 

[NeonSturm]

But, as stated by the new (proposed) movement system. This method may cause issues with thrusters.

Why?

Client:

Key-Down : enable-thrust
Key-Up : disable-thrust​

Server:

disabled -> enabled : power.add_buff( thrusters.active_buff )
enabled -> disabled : power.remove_buff( thrusters.active_buff )​

If buff (regeneration) contains a negative number, it is a de-buff (drain).

A de-buff can be active only once at the same time.

If a de-buff is active while you do not hold the key, just press and release it again (add(again) : do nothing; release : release(the stuck de-buff)).​