Disable Homebase Invincibility if Mass/Person > X

[XTFOX]

I've seen other threads about creating config options to disable homebase invincibility created a while ago but I don't think I've seen this idea. Basically station invincibility would be disabled when Mass per Faction Member is above a certain amount (default 250k? A 10 person faction could have a 2500K mass homebase). This would promote people joining factions rather than just creating their own.

Ideally once a station is so large that it is no longer invincible its location would not be shown on the faction menu. This would let others know that the homebase was open for attack but not give away its location. This also means that players would have to be strategic with their attack as once they destroy enough blocks the station would be invincible again. Thoughts?

 

[jayman38]

If you extended this rule to any station, it would encourage the distribution of more station networks, as it would become beneficial to have a large network of multiple, small stations, versus one big megastation.

 

[jstenholt]

Maybe a good idea. But not until stations become even remotely defensible. Doom Beams alone make non-invincible stations worthless anyways, as I understand it.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

I'm all for factions of large players, but with only 1 invincible station the lag at that station is ridiculous when you have so many docked ships with numerous docked entities in the form of turrets and moving parts.

Hopefully this is sorted in the universe update. Otherwise, a better method of managing invincibility is required.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Not gonna lie; I had a knee-jerk reaction when I saw the title. After reading the whole post, I think this could actually work. However, there are a few things I'd recommend taking care of first.

1) Remove home base location broadcasting. ...or at the very least, allow a faction to enable/disable broadcasting. We already have to scout out or scan systems just to find asteroid belts, planets, stations. Your home base location shouldn't be automatically known by everyone by default. That's neither realistic nor fair for anyone wanting to keep a low profile while starting out.

2) As jstenholt said; stations need to be defensible. That means, at a minimum;
- Better AI. I'm talking fleet commands, turrets, target leading, missile tracking, combat tactics; everything.
- Proper weapons balancing. Death beam shouldn't automatically = dead station.
- Always-on stealth/recon/defense chambers (if equipped); preferably with a reduction in reactor capacity cost. There needs to be something to offset a station's lack of mobility.

Regarding large factions and lag; There isn't much that Schine can do to fix this besides programming the game in a less clunky programming language. I've said it before and I'll say it again; lag is caused largely due to player behavior. Planet bases, giant stations, capital ships, large fleets, turret spam, etc. all contribute to lag. When you put a bunch of players together who are all hell bent on owning a capital supported by heavy drones then let them bring all their toys to one spot, the lag multiplies exponentially as all those bounding boxes go crazy with their collision checks. Currently, this is unavoidable without first changing player behavior.

Edit: lastly, make the whole thing a server config option.

 

[TheDerpGamerX]

Things like this have already been suggested many many times, but Schine refuses to even consider anything that would make home stations vulnerable. In my opinion, it should be balanced by having mining stations that will boost mining yield or automatically get some resources for larger factions.

 

[OfficialCoding]

Things like this have already been suggested many many times, but Schine refuses to even consider anything that would make home stations vulnerable. In my opinion, it should be balanced by having mining stations that will boost mining yield or automatically get some resources for larger factions.

The problem with the way starmade is structured is these great ideas are very exploitable. All you'd have to do is make a tonne of stations with a single block reactor and a single mining chamber.

 

[NTIMESc]

I can't say that I would be incentivized to join a faction just because the faction could have a larger HB. Generally, HB editing permission isn't given out willy-nilly to every faction member that comes along. Wouldn't it be just as effective to have ten one-man factions allied with 10 invulnerable stations? Sure, only one station is allowed per sector, by default, but how would one really big station be better than ten 250k stations in nearby sectors?

 

[Dr. Whammy]

I can't say that I would be incentivized to join a faction just because the faction could have a larger HB. Generally, HB editing permission isn't given out willy-nilly to every faction member that comes along. Wouldn't it be just as effective to have ten one-man factions allied with 10 invulnerable stations? Sure, only one station is allowed per sector, by default, but how would one really big station be better than ten 250k stations in nearby sectors?

Agreed 100%

This point has been highly understated over the years.

Some players simply want to run their own operation; having full control over editing capabilities, strategic decisions, etc. A big faction usually doesn't allow for that unless you are the owner of said faction. I personally have found alliances with other small factions to be preferable to building/joining a larger faction. That way, everyone has the final say in what their organization does.

Also, I've noticed that excessively large factions tend to have one of two effects.
1) many new players who log on practically beg to join these large factions, for safety, perks, bragging rights, influence, etc.
2) more independent players get scared off when they eventually see, just how outnumbered and outclassed they are compared to these mega factions.

This can sometimes lead to a game of "multi-single-player" where where the giant faction rules the map and everyone else hides at the edge of the galaxy.

 

[NTIMESc]

There is one incentive to mention I suppose, which is the mining bonus. I suppose up to 8 factions could claim the corner sectors in adjacent systems, but otherwise factions would have to be quite far apart if they each wanted the mining bonus.
That being said, I personally, don't care about the mining bonus. I find it fairly uninteresting to get a magical bonus for "claiming" 0.02% of a system.

 

[StormWing0]

Another Incentive could be merging Player and NPC factions into one faction type and turning the main NPC Faction Functions into blocks that require secondary stations other than the homebase to function.

 

[akimzav]

Wouldn't it be just as effective to have ten one-man factions allied with 10 invulnerable stations?

It won't if some parameter of the station scales non-linearly with it's mass.
In terms of this suggestion, the "X" from "max_mass/num_members<X" should be a function of num_members. For example, it could be something like "X=A*num_members" where "A" is constant. Then the max_mass will be a power of 2 the number of people in faction, thus greatly encouraging large factions.

 

[Gasboy]

I don't think that this needs to be built into the game. Or at least, it should be a true/false toggle for server admins. It seems to me that server admins could tailor things to their own liking. And for single player, home stations should be invincible by default.

The game itself should not force people to join factions. It should be a server option.

The home base station being invincible isn't the issue. Generally, if the server has a modest sized, active player base, people should gravitate towards joining a faction rather than making a 1-player faction. Sure, that 1-player faction has an invincible homebase. If you have to construct it out of materials you've mined => converted to minerals/crystal/mesh => converted to higher end products yourself (as in, there is no creative mode), then you will have to go and do all that. That 10 player faction might not be able to wreck your base, but they can prevent you from leaving the station to mine.