Sometimes, you need to be positive.

[Admiralkio]

So...

Returning player. After three, four years of inactivity. Just been kinda watching Starmade dev tick along, waiting for the coveted 'beta' release.

...And trying to ignore the absolute deluge of vitriol that the changes have caused. I'm really starting to think people forget what an alpha is about.

So, after four years. I'm back along with the dev build of the long anticipated weapons update. Messing with the new power system and getting back into the rhythm of Starmade.

I'm aware Starmade has been in alpha forever, but in my lurking, i have seen people start talking down the changes the moment the blog posts go up.

Personally?
I'm enjoying the changes! The new power system actually got me excited to play again. The weapons update has me thinking. So, from someone who's been around from the very beginning:

Keep going, Schine and Schema. o7

 

[dwwojcik]

These people are more interested in what Starmade was than in what Starmade will be. Makes sense, if they didn't like how it was they wouldn't have been interested in playing it, and probably wouldn't be hanging around here.

Obviously the developers are not infallable. I don't think every change they've made is a good one. But it's safe to say that overall I'm very happy with the direction development is going. I'm glad to see Starmade start to grow beyond the space arena-shooter severely lacking polish and content that we all know and some of us love.

 

[Reilly Reese]

So...

Returning player. After three, four years of inactivity. Just been kinda watching Starmade dev tick along, waiting for the coveted 'beta' release.

...And trying to ignore the absolute deluge of vitriol that the changes have caused. I'm really starting to think people forget what an alpha is about.

So, after four years. I'm back along with the dev build of the long anticipated weapons update. Messing with the new power system and getting back into the rhythm of Starmade.

I'm aware Starmade has been in alpha forever, but in my lurking, i have seen people start talking down the changes the moment the blog posts go up.

Personally?
I'm enjoying the changes! The new power system actually got me excited to play again. The weapons update has me thinking. So, from someone who's been around from the very beginning:

Keep going, Schine and Schema. o7

Oh hey it's you.

Been a while since you've been around for sure. xD

 

[Pacific_Jim]

I actually kinda like the recent mechanics changes now I've had time to play around with them, especially once Stabilizers got tweaked. There's still a fair amount of balancing and similar tweaks that need to go in, but overall the newer mechanics seem promising. The biggest complaint I have about the changes is where they happened in the dev cycle. We were told they were going to begin populating the universe with things to see and do, and then everything ground to a halt, basically killing the games momentum (I'm aware that many of these changes were necessary, especially with regarding anti-spaghetti measures).

This is especially a problem when you consider the amount of official in-game assets such as the big three factions ships/stations and the contest stuff. The amount of actual refitting that will need to go into fixing that stuff is going to be no small undertaking, and in the case of the contest stuff you maybe even have it being done by players who aren't even playing the game anymore.

Overall the changes might end up being for the better, but Starmade can't stay in alpha and keep overhauling itself forever, at some point there needs to be an actual game. Starmade is also a very community driven game, and can't really afford to have the kind of set backs it's been having. It's even very possible that enough damage has been done to the games player base that it might not recover.

 

[Edymnion]

Its a problem that should sort itself out over time. The people who just can't adapt will leave. The more that changes, the more it will push them away.

Once that particular brand of old guard has cycled out, things should get better.

The amount of actual refitting that will need to go into fixing that stuff is going to be no small undertaking, and in the case of the contest stuff you maybe even have it being done by players who aren't even playing the game anymore.

Meh, then they just do a new contest for the new players to make new things.

Anyone still around that did it last time can rebuild and resubmit. If they're gone, well they aren't playing anymore so they shouldn't care.

 

[Reilly Reese]

Its a problem that should sort itself out over time. The people who just can't adapt will leave. The more that changes, the more it will push them away.

Once that particular brand of old guard has cycled out, things should get better.Meh, then they just do a new contest for the new players to make new things.

Anyone still around that did it last time can rebuild and resubmit. If they're gone, well they aren't playing anymore so they shouldn't care.

Oof Edy, you're cold.

 

[Nosajimiki]

These people are more interested in what Starmade was than in what Starmade will be. Makes sense, if they didn't like how it was they wouldn't have been interested in playing it, and probably wouldn't be hanging around here.

Obviously the developers are not infallable. I don't think every change they've made is a good one. But it's safe to say that overall I'm very happy with the direction development is going. I'm glad to see Starmade start to grow beyond the space arena-shooter severely lacking polish and content that we all know and some of us love.

Can't speak for everyone, but for me it's not just about then vs now. A lot of negativity, comes from people who've played long enough to see exploits and imbalances at the drop of a hat. It comes from thousands of hours spent looking and discussing the system with other veteran players. A lot of anger came from a bunch of new features full of obvious faults that could have saved months of development time, avoided performance issues, and prevented new exploits if Schine had done a better job of communicating with the people who know the most about how people use (and break) the game.

While the dev team has recently started do a better job of communicating, they still stay mostly secretive about the specifics of their future plans; so, we still get hit with all sorts issues with good ideas being implemented in problematic ways (such as integrity).

 

[MeRobo]

Anyone still around that did it last time can rebuild and resubmit. If they're gone, well they aren't playing anymore so they shouldn't care.

Nobody should have to resubmit anything. A competition was hold for stuff to be put into the game nearly 2 years ago and it's still not in the game. Fleets which got accepted the first time should be automatically accepted when refit (and not bound to a deadline) of a new competition. This comes from someone willing to refit his accepted submission. These people where told their builds would end up in the game, so they should end up in the game. I would be okay with my fleet not being in the post weapons update version of the game without me going through another contest, if it ever had been in the game for any significant time since july 2016 when we (the multitude of winners) were told our fleets would be in the game. News flash: It wasn't.
Your whole "Who cares whether the devs actually do what they promised to?" attitude makes me say fuck you edy (and fuck the warning points this will most likely get me).
Reasons for not being able to resubmit an already accepted fleet in a refitted version for another competiton may very well include things like changed circumstances of life (I know my brother who doesn't play the game would have been able to take part 2 years ago, wouldn't be able now and I'm pretty sure this applies to some people who had awinning entry in the fleet competition).
I think the best course of action would be to ask all the creators to refit their fleets, if they themselfs don't have the time give them the oportunity to suggest someone else to do this (who'd obviously would have to agree to it) and the devs (probably Criss+Saber) do the rest.

 

[Admiralkio]

I'm going to point my finger at 'this game is still in alpha'.

Yes. Major systems changed between the contest and the current version of the game. OK. That happens. The game is in alpha. There is nothing that says people must go back and refit their ships. Someone on the dev team may get a bee in their bonnet and decide to do it themselves. Hell, I might decide to do it and submit them as a favor the community.

But you're displaying the exact vitriol i'm talking about. Long text-walls berating, insulting, and in general making no other point than to whine about something. Can you please, just be quiet for a moment and think about providing something productive?

Maybe, and, i know, it's a radical idea: try to fix the problem.

You were not guaranteed a place in this game's history. The game is in alpha, and nothing guarantees that major systems will not change. The old power system clearly didn't work, but there was no idea on how to change it.

Schine and Schema clearly put a lot of work and thought into the new system, and while it's rough right now, i think it's the direction the game needs to go.

With all that out of the way, nothing mandates that the creators fix their fleets. There's too much community content there that could expand the game for Schine to ignore - and all this being said, though. Starmade is not a singleplayer game. Fundamentally, you use singleplayer to build. Even the singleplayer worlds are just localhosted multiplayer servers.

Maybe there should be less of a focus on content that may get replaced by server owners anyway, and more of a focus on the core systems that Starmade has traditionally done better than singleplayer.

 

[Reilly Reese]

You were not guaranteed a place in this game's history.

I believe that was the entire point behind the contest though. Your fleet put into the game officially.

Maybe, and, i know, it's a radical idea: try to fix the problem.

Oof, now you're being a bit passive-aggressive. That won't help.

Schine and Schema clearly put a lot of work and thought into the new system,

Unfortunately it's got just as many issues, exploits and bugs as the original less convoluted system at the moment. It's not an improvement in itself.

Starmade is not a singleplayer game.

Most of the intended content updates were suppose to make singleplayer actually have some life in it, unfortunately they were dropped half finished into the game when the better option arguably would have been to not push them into the game half-baked.

 

[Admiralkio]

I see people yelling about things instead of fixing them. I'm more than a little irritated by the lack of people willing to do more than scream at the devs.

 

[Reilly Reese]

I see people yelling about things instead of fixing them. I'm more than a little irritated by the lack of people willing to do more than scream at the devs.

Well the devs are the only ones who can fix things and until recently (Maybe the past month or so) would not interact AT ALL with the community.

So naturally people were annoyed and angry.

 

[Scypio]

I see people yelling about things instead of fixing them. I'm more than a little irritated by the lack of people willing to do more than scream at the devs.

Not to throw a tomato at anyone but i (and probably many ppl before and after me) have been asking for the possibility to add plugins easily for quite some time. Well, starmade being an application if you can add code to it you can do whatever you want to the base game. Adding features or, why not, fix it... ?

Guess what ? We still can't.

And well. Many ppl here here did their quota of suggestions and many have been tired of them being simply ignored. So well, not much to do than leave or scream.

 

[dwwojcik]

Or they could wait for development to continue patiently and quietly. There's no need to scream, that doesn't accomplish anything.

 

[Edymnion]

Well the devs are the only ones who can fix things and until recently (Maybe the past month or so) would not interact AT ALL with the community.

And in all honesty, that was the community's fault.

We had a group that made it their mission to do nothing but scream at the devs and stamp their feet until they got their way. They'd say X is a problem, and suggest Y as a fix. Devs would go "Hey, you know, you're right, X is a problem. We hear ya about Y, but we think Z is a better solution, so we're going to do that right now." Said group then screamed that the devs didn't listen (despite the fact the thing they were screaming about was a direct result of the devs listening), and were just overall very hostile and toxic towards them.

No one wants to go somewhere to be yelled at and belittled constantly, so is it any surprise the dev team pulled back?

Too many people thought they had their hands on the wheel when they really didn't. Too many people thought they knew what was best when they didn't have sight on the big picture. Too many people couldn't differentiate between "The devs listened, but didn't agree" and "The devs ignored us entirely".

Honestly? I agreed with the devs for pulling back. If the community wasn't capable of giving usable feedback in a proper fashion, then it no longer served a purpose. People screaming that they were being ignored were the reason they actually started getting ignored. So, devs kept their heads down, did their work, and frankly got a LOT done.

I hope people learned a lesson from all of it and will try to be more polite from now on.

If you're polite and make suggestions, you get heard. I know, couple of my suggestions made it in. If you scream and claim to know the game better than the people who made it, then all you're doing is setting yourself up for failure.

 

[Agame3]

I see people yelling about things instead of fixing them. I'm more than a little irritated by the lack of people willing to do more than scream at the devs.

Suggestion: You don't have to like at all CURRENT/LAST game version, direction of game development, etc. One may try to fix it or one may simply be overwhelmed and give up fixing. Nobody said you have to play the current version, neither single or multiplayer. It changes every 2 weeks anyway

Any version you like to play, it's still STARMADE and it's still gorgeous, best of all the blocky games ever. Just love the game in any version. And from time to time it worths to check out the dev blogs. Who knows? Maybe one day, one of the new versions, with some .cfg editing, might be worth a try, maybe it will become your new best version to love...

It's just like women. You can't be asked to love a new one every week or every 2 weeks from all your heart, even if they are all really really beautiful and fresh. You could try to play with them all, though... Better keep one till either she dies either your love dies, then move on to the next one. And even then, it does not have to be the "this week's" one...

Some people are biased thinking there is only one truth, only one true religion, only one true STARMADE, the one Schema/Schine sais it is the true one. Well, I kind of disagree with that.

 

[Reilly Reese]

If you scream and claim to know the game better than the people who made it

Most don't actually play at all by self-admission.

 

[The Judge]

Meh, then they just do a new contest for the new players to make new things.

Anyone still around that did it last time can rebuild and resubmit. If they're gone, well they aren't playing anymore so they shouldn't care.

While I'm pretty sure Schine has the right to do this, it's an asshat thing to do.

We had a group that made it their mission to do nothing but scream at the devs and stamp their feet until they got their way. They'd say X is a problem, and suggest Y as a fix. Devs would go "Hey, you know, you're right, X is a problem. We hear ya about Y, but we think Z is a better solution, so we're going to do that right now." Said group then screamed that the devs didn't listen (despite the fact the thing they were screaming about was a direct result of the devs listening), and were just overall very hostile and toxic towards them.

If Z is the COMPLETE opposite of X, I don't see why we don't have the right to voice our concern. We're so active with our protests because we want to see the game succeed.

So, devs kept their heads down, did their work, and frankly got a LOT done.

While yes, it was a lot of work, Power 2.0 and Weapons 3.0 are just giant resource sinks, the time could have been used elsewhere, like I don't know, fixing far more pressing issues.

If you scream and claim to know the game better than the people who made it, then all you're doing is setting yourself up for failure.

Schine may have knowledge of how the game works, but the community knows how these mechanics interact with multiplayer far more. No Schine member oversees public testing. If anyone is refusing to cooperate, its Schine, or at least they're refusing to listen to the population. I've said this before, but I do think that the PvP community (and Lecic specifically) could've handled the situation a bit better, their points still remain relevant.

 

[Aesthetics]

I get the distinct feeling that this thread will devolve into passive-aggressive finger-pointing.

 

[Edymnion]

I don't see why we don't have the right to voice our concern

Again, there is a difference between voicing concern and screaming or demanding to get your way immediately.

could've handled the situation a bit better, their points still remain relevant.

No one said they didn't have good points. The devs themselves said they had good points.

What killed them was their bad attitude and "We don't care that this problem is getting fixed with the next big update, we demand you drop everything and fix it NOW!" stance.

The whole "Well Power 2.0 doesn't play nice with Weapons 1.0!" rant was just silly when by their own admission they KNEW it was getting changed and that we were in a transition period. Instead of just waiting it out, they threw temper tantrums about how extreme bleeding edge competitive PvP was broken right that instant, and therefore the entire game was dead because their niche was having balance issues.

Saying "Hey, I think this is broken. Here's some blueprints illustrating the issue I'm seeing" and coming back a couple of updates later and going "Hey, this is still a thing. Have you gotten around to looking at it yet, or did it slip through the cracks?" is great. That is productive feedback, and that is helping make sure nothing gets forgotten.

Yelling in every thread every single day about it just pisses people off. And once you've upset people, it doesn't matter what you say, they are going to want to ignore you just because you do nothing but scream.

Just like in the real world, its all about HOW YOU PRESENT YOURSELF. Being right isn't enough if you can't present your case in a manner that makes people WANT to listen to you. Just look at PETA. Protecting animals is a GREAT cause! But they're such dicks about it that they make people want to go have a steak just to spite them.