Chambers using fixed % sucks

[LoSboccacc]

want to max out jump distance? that takes 40% reactor power production

want to permacloack? 40% reactor power production

want to strengthen armor? 10% reactor production

want some trade-off between reactor size, ship vulnerability and number of boosts you can activate?

no cant do sir.

the power update looks more and more like switching from Lego Technic to Duplo

now we only need % power based weapon system for the disaster to be complete.

 

[Top 4ce]

want to max out jump distance? that takes 40% reactor power production

want to permacloack? 40% reactor power production

want to strengthen armor? 10% reactor production

want some trade-off between reactor size, ship vulnerability and number of boosts you can activate?

no cant do sir.

the power update looks more and more like switching from Lego Technic to Duplo

now we only need % power based weapon system for the disaster to be complete.

You're missing the point of the system. It's to encourage specialized ships, you can no longer have a single ship that does all the things really well.

 

[DeepspaceMechanic]

You're missing the point of the system. It's to encourage specialized ships, you can no longer have a single ship that does all the things really well.

Perhaps with multiple specialized reactors, ships having many fun chamber features might be possible. Such designs would probably come with drawbacks, but not big ones when minmaxing / combat efficiency is way outside the builder's interests.

 

[Non]

You're missing the point of the system. It's to encourage specialized ships, you can no longer have a single ship that does all the things really well.

Your'e missing the point, I don't want to have to spend almost half my reactor to make travel times not complete garbage, nor should I have to set up a second reactor for that.

 

[Top 4ce]

Your'e missing the point, I don't want to have to spend almost half my reactor to make travel times not complete garbage, nor should I have to set up a second reactor for that.

That's an opinion and not the stated point of the mechanic.

 

[DeepspaceMechanic]

want some trade-off between reactor size, ship vulnerability and number of boosts you can activate?

no cant do sir.

Most chambers enhance already existing systems (like the now built-in jumpdrive, or player-placed shield rechargers, thrusters, etc) and the extra power consumption added by those chambers depend on the size of these enhanced systems (or the ship size in the case of the jumpdrive and stealthdrive).

One might think that the possibility for a new chamber could depend on weather we're still under a 1:1 power production/consumption ratio. If one would desire another chamber near 100% consumption, one could decrease the amount of shield recharges or thrusters, we might think. But chambers provide fixed ratios of systems enhancement (eg. +10% shield capacity, etc). That's probably the main reason for fixed RC percentages.

EDIT:
I'm not actually sure about that last part... maybe it isn't necessary to be like that, and the freedom to add new chambers could indeed be based on power availability as opposed to RC availability (?)

 

[LoSboccacc]

That's an opinion and not the stated point of the mechanic.

^ exactly. beside, energy management already did that and in a more intuitive manner


moreover since the first reactor switch has zero cooldown, you can have a single block reactor providing full bonuses in a tree and switch it around as needed for maximum cheese

 

[Top 4ce]

^ exactly. beside, energy management already did that and in a more intuitive manner


beside since the first reactor switch has zero cooldown, you can have a single block reactor providing full bonuses in a tree and switch it around as needed for maximum cheese

But most of those bonuses still depend on a system that needs to be powered. Can't take advantage of higher speed if you cant power your thrusters, for example.

 

[Non]

That's an opinion and not the stated point of the mechanic.

So?

Ships can be special without screwing up travel times and other basic mechanics that make the game more playable. A good jump drive doesn't give anyone a super strong combat ability, it just means that going across the galaxy doesn't take hours. It makes pvp even less likely, which makes the game a lot less fun for a lot of us.

Why chambers shouldn't just be based on power usage like the current effect system, or be balanced based on the size of relevant system they affect rather than reactor size is a question I haven't gotten a good answer to. Reactor capacity is just an arbitrary system someone thought was a good idea, power usage by effects will do the same thing naturally.

 

[Top 4ce]

Ships can be special without screwing up travel times and other basic mechanics that make the game more playable. A good jump drive doesn't give anyone a super strong combat ability, it just means that going across the galaxy doesn't take hours. It makes pvp even less likely, which makes the game a lot less fun for a lot of us.

A valid opinion on a mechanic from a certain perspective, but I think the jumping system will be more complex as we move forward.

Why chambers shouldn't just be based on power usage like the current effect system, or be balanced based on the size of relevant system they affect rather than reactor size is a question I haven't gotten a good answer to. Reactor capacity is just an arbitrary system someone thought was a good idea, power usage by effects will do the same thing naturally.

That's a good question that I too would like to know.

 

[Non]

A valid opinion on a mechanic from a certain perspective, but I think the jumping system will be more complex as we move forward.

I am fine with more complexity, as long as real travel times don't increase, and right now there is no way someone is going to put enough of their reactor towards it on a combat ship that they would be as fast as they were before. Having two reactors and switching between them isn't viable for the most part, because any ambush would be devastating and good ships aren't cheap.

That's a good question that I too would like to know.

I appreciate you accepting this, thank you.

 

[DeepspaceMechanic]

Wait... How about instead of having a separate reactor which we can switch to in order to unlock certain chamber effects passive most of the time (good jump abilities), we would have extra passive chambers connected to the single reactor, and instead of reactor switching, we would change which chambers are active and which are passive? - Pros and cons?

 

[Edymnion]

So?

Ships can be special without screwing up travel times and other basic mechanics that make the game more playable. A good jump drive doesn't give anyone a super strong combat ability, it just means that going across the galaxy doesn't take hours. It makes pvp even less likely, which makes the game a lot less fun for a lot of us.

So, do what you see in scifi and make carrier ships.

A carrier doesn't have to be just a big ship carrying dozens of smaller ships. Look at the Star Wars prequels, the Jedi had small fighter ships that docked into a ring that gave them long range hyperdrive capability.

You could do that. Make your ship with good turning and power and all that, and have a jump sled you can dock it to. Move up into the sled, use it's dedicated super-jump engines to fly around, then undock from the sled when you get to where you want to be.

 

[Zerefette]

nor should I have to set up a second reactor for that.

That's not a terrible thing, a smaller reactor for travels, as long as switching isn't a pain I'm ok.

 

[The Judge]

So, do what you see in scifi and make carrier ships.

A carrier doesn't have to be just a big ship carrying dozens of smaller ships. Look at the Star Wars prequels, the Jedi had small fighter ships that docked into a ring that gave them long range hyperdrive capability.

You could do that. Make your ship with good turning and power and all that, and have a jump sled you can dock it to. Move up into the sled, use it's dedicated super-jump engines to fly around, then undock from the sled when you get to where you want to be.

This is talking in a non-RP sense, doing that would just waste resources.

 

[Nosajimiki]

You're missing the point of the system. It's to encourage specialized ships, you can no longer have a single ship that does all the things really well.

Chambers = mass that can not be used for other things. If you throw 50 chambers onto a ship, you don't have a ship that can do everything well, you have a ship that is dedicated to boosting negligent systems. IE: a ship that is bad at everything. If you remove the hard-cap, a soft cap still exits making a wider range of vessels still possible, but you would still need a balance where minimizing your chamber count would make for a stronger ship.

FYI: giving us a hard cap, and then saying you have to do this really crappy thing with multiple reactors to be able to actually function is like saying everyone can have health care, but that it will cost twice as much as it used to if your income breaks some arbitrary hard cap, not cover shit, and you can't opt out of it without getting fined out the ass.

 

[Non]

That's not a terrible thing, a smaller reactor for travels, as long as switching isn't a pain I'm ok.

You could do that. Make your ship with good turning and power and all that, and have a jump sled you can dock it to. Move up into the sled, use it's dedicated super-jump engines to fly around, then undock from the sled when you get to where you want to be.

Having two reactors and switching between them isn't viable for the most part, because any ambush would be devastating and good ships aren't cheap.

Ambush thing still applies to sleds, it's not viable on a pvp server, and if your drive is on a sled, escape is a lot harder.

 

[Calhoun]

The problem with overspecialising is... whats the point?

Sure, I could have a ship with low thrust and powerful defences, but considering that defence is infinitely weaker then offence, there's no point. The 'Specialisation' of ships is a complete waste, because you're still going to see a total of about 3 different configurations. It's going to reduce interactions because no one is going to want to reduce their combat capability to add nice to haves, like jump increases.

 

[Top 4ce]

Chambers = mass that can not be used for other things. If you throw 50 chambers onto a ship, you don't have a ship that can do everything well, you have a ship that is dedicated to boosting negligent systems. IE: a ship that is bad at everything. If you remove the hard-cap, a soft cap still exits making a wider range of vessels still possible, but you would still need a balance where minimizing your chamber count would make for a stronger ship.

Yes, making a jack of all trades gives you a ship that sucks at everything, mostly because of the hard cap.

I like the idea of a soft cap. Or just a limit of 3-4 chambers active at once, but they're all connected to the same reactor. Yeah it's an increase in mass, but you don't need more power blocks or switching. It becomes a player function of balancing the right bonus for the right time.

 

[Qweesdy]

Your'e missing the point, I don't want to have to spend almost half my reactor to make travel times not complete garbage, nor should I have to set up a second reactor for that.

It's worse than that.

Let's assume you want to build a specialised "extremely awesome for fast travel and completely useless for everything else" ship. The first things you're going to want is "jump distance 3" (40% of RC) and "multi charge 1" (40% of RC) and "jump autocharge (5% of RC). You take it for a test flight and find out that you also need "FLT power efficiency 3" (45% of RC) and "reactor base enhancement" (20% of RC) just so you can charge the jump drives. This adds up to 150% of RC, so you're screwed.

Then (after nerfing your chambers to make it work somehow) you take your ship for a second test flight, and someone has "warp interdiction 1" and you can't jump at all. To avoid that you throw your ship in the trash and start building a massive "1234 million block" titan so that it's hard for someone to prevent your "not very awesome for fast travel and completely useless for everything else" ship from jumping.

You take your "1234 million block useless for almost everything" titan out for a test flight and find that (even with "FLT power efficiency 3" and "reactor base enhancement") you still can't charge your jump drives because of the massive amount of mass. To solve that you end up getting rid of all the chambers that improve jump drives (and increase jump drive power consumption).

Now you have a "1234 million block useless for everything" titan.

Note: For faction home base; I do intend to use "factory bake time 1" (20% RC) and "warp interdiction 4" (80% RC) to prevent small ships from jumping in and attacking.