Block Assignment and Dedication

[Lockerd]

This would be a tad bit long so I'll try to limit it to some degree...which will result in some flaws.

My proposal is to have a ship pool for different segments of the ships we build, this would be determined based on the number of blocks and each block would have a value attributed to it.

The blocks would have value based on the resources which go into them, so an advanced armor block would be more valuable than a standard armor block.

This Next Part is For: Armor

In having these values combined in a pool, we can then begin what would be called "group cohesion" which in essence would allow us to select segments of armor and then draw from the pool to "reinforce" them so to speak. This would however detract from the armor value of other blocks selected in the group. This however could also be used to give all armor blocks a unified and equal value boost, but would honestly be a waste to do such.

This does have a limit, as standard blocks have an upper limit, you can't give the direct value of two advanced armor blocks onto a standard armor block, instead you could only give the standard armor block the armor value of one advanced armor block. Advanced armor blocks have an upper limit as well, which is 3x the value of their own standard value.

Once the cohesion is applied, it cannot be re-applied unless done so in a shipyard (something that'd also need to be re-worked for this to function) so as to prevent on the fly adjustments.

This could hopefully be used to let us design good looking ships, with function not having to take a back seat. Granted this would definitely include weak spots, but there SHOULD be some weak spots.

When the groups are damaged, they can easily be repaired with full value, but lost segments would cost twice the lost segments in resources to replace outside of a shipyard (you can place the blocks but the remaining segment would only accept half of the blocks missing), and be given a strength value of only 75% of the original group value. This would be negated in a shipyard where everything can be repaired completely.

Effect Modules would allow for much stronger levels of strength and cohesion. But would only apply to certain already established groups.

This Next Part is For: Shields

Shields are a bit of a different issue, mostly because they're a cluster of bad forms mixed with good forms.

In this case, shields would be affected by how large the vessel is, the bigger it is the more shield blocks required to completely protect it. However this would also come with its own solution, a new shield block, something called a shield emitter block would have to be made.

This would let us keep our current blocks but also condense things a little bit, each shield emitter block can fit 11 shield related blocks and effect modules. To be clear, this doesn't mean we have to put 11 blocks in each emitter as we place them, but rather adds to a value pool. We could place as many shield emitters as the ship size would allow, and then have a set pool of points to work with, if we want to establish a balance of recharge and strength, then we can add those blocks into the pool to make it happen. This way we still have the blocks, but they'd be "stored" inside the shield emitter blocks.

The shield recharge, shield strength, and effect module blocks would be put into the ship to fill the vacant points while also minimizing how many placed blocks there't have to be.

This system would not work in the same fashion of the armor however, as it can be made to be edited on the fly but with a required shield restart which would take 30s each time.

This Next Part is For: Power

Power is a bit of a tricky beast, and to be truthful, I'm not sure how well it'd work as I've not given it too much thought.....ok, I'm gonna be REALLY truthful, I decided not to include power because regardless of what I suggest there'd be three people who'd relentlessly hate on it and probably throw insults non stop.

I will say this though, my suggestion would have included capacitors and connectors for weapons...which also prevents me from including the "weapons" segment in this as well.

Ending Statement

There are missing segments for this suggestion, but I'd hope the basic concept comes across well. I don't do well with typing right now and would be able to convey the idea better via audio and visual descriptions...I'll en-devour to make a video sometime.

 

[Zoolimar]

This Next Part is For: Armor

Linear scaling doesn't work, especially if it is capped at only 5x the base stats of armor block. Right now Starmade has more or less linear scaling for armor where you could put 5 blocks one after another. And it won't stop that much.

I also don't think making people to basically place each of their armor blocks 2 times (or at least those that they want to strengthen) is a good idea.

This Next Part is For: Shields

So if shield emitters have the size of one block and value of 11 blocks why would anyone use any other shield blocks ? Unless of course they have really big mass.

The fact that bigger, not more massive, ships take more shield blocks also penalizes RP builders who like to make ships with different rotating parts, nacelles and so on - ships that are much bigger than armored lumps of systems with turrets on them.

 

[Lockerd]

"making people to basically place each of their armor blocks 2 times"

what are you referring to?

So if shield emitters have the size of one block and value of 11 blocks why would anyone use any other shield blocks ? Unless of course they have really big mass.

no shield recharge, no benefits, etc...it'd just be a massive granite egg without the other modules and shield components.

"The fact that bigger, not more massive, ships take more shield blocks also penalizes RP builders who like to make ships with different rotating parts, nacelles and so on - ships that are much bigger than armored lumps of systems with turrets on them."

no matter what is done, no matter how it's done. RP players are always gonna be penalized, even the current system penalizes them...more to the point, if you're using an RP structure style of gameplay then the main mechanics should be limited to what you're trying to RP.

I'm assuming by "bigger, not more massive" you mean larger scale and not larger density?

the other point is, clearly text isn't working to convey what I'm trying to say. It makes sense to me, but that's because I know the other factors, but after THREE times...I need to make the video.

 

[Zoolimar]

what are you referring to?

I'm referring to the fact that you need not only to build armor layers on your ship but then take the pool values and spread them over desired blocks. Right now you build armor and that's it. In your proposal you need to build armor and then go other the blocks a second time assigning them chunks of the pool.

no shield recharge, no benefits, etc...it'd just be a massive granite egg without the other modules and shield components.

Ok let's take it step by step.

1. If emitters can't work without shield capacity / recharge blocks but give value it is most effective to place one capacity and one recharge block and then use only emitters.
2. If emitters have a cap of how many you can have per capacity / recharge block they are still strictly more effective than other blocks because they are smaller. So you just have a ratio of emitter blocks to other shield blocks that you must always retain.
3. If emitters have a cap and are more massive than comparable number (by provided value) of shield / recharge blocks they may be more or less effective than basic blocks depending on the mass. They may be used on some smaller ships but large ships would just use more of the basic blocks.

 

[Lockerd]

I'm referring to the fact that you need not only to build armor layers on your ship but then take the pool values and spread them other desired blocks. Right now you build armor and that's it. In your proposal you need to build armor and then go other the blocks a second time assigning them chunks of the pool.

It more works like this.

you select a group, similar to how you'd make a selection for copy/pasting, that then makes your "cohesive group". the group would then have its own pool of armor, you can then select where you want the armor to be more focused, at the expense of the other layers.

say you've selected a group of 11 wide and high, with 5 deep, that group would then have armor values based on their own blocks as a standard. However, instead of the old "damage reduction" per block, the whole selection is ONE giant pool of armor. This could be affected by effects modules as well, but that's a different take which relies on the missing power concept.

You could even go layer by layer if you want, that way even RP ships could have solid armor without having to go block by block. And in shipyards they could be repaired based on the groups, so no more hunting for all the missing segments. Heck you could have armor belts, instead of the current armor scale mail design we've currently got.

But you don't have to make it into one giant layer of armor on the top, you can have a solid layer of hull on the outside with an aesthetic design over a layer of armor on the inside, or do two separate groups for multiple layers of solid armor.

However, the bigger the cohesive group you make, the slower your ship would be so a number of individual groups would be better, as well as how many you make being limited to the ship size, not sure exactly what ratio would be good right now as I'm still working that out.

Ok let's take it step by step.

1. If emitters can't work without shield capacity / recharge blocks but give value it is most effective to place one capacity and one recharge block and then use only emitters.
2. If emitters have a cap of how many you can have per capacity / recharge block they are still strictly more effective than other blocks because they are smaller. So you just have a ratio of emitter blocks to other shield blocks that you must always retain.
3. If emitters have a cap and are more massive than comparable number (by provided value) of shield / recharge blocks they may be more or less effective than basic blocks depending on the mass. They may be used on some smaller ships but large ships would just use more of the basic blocks.

The emitters are meant to be a space saving option, and yes to allow the use of some interiors (both for RP and the upcoming crew). The proportion of shield emitters are based on the mass of the ship, not the length. So as of right now it's more like taking what we've already got, but reducing the needed space.

For instance, say we've got a 10k mass ship as it is right now, and it's got all those shield related blocks strewn about the ship, say those shield related blocks count for 3k of that mass.

With emitters, you can basically reduce the amount of space in the ship by condensing it into the emitter block. So for every 11 shield related block, you have 1 block to put them into. However the emitters would have no mass on themselves, but instead would include the mass of the blocks inside of them, this way a 10k mass ship would still be a 10k mass ship, just that it'd have more interior space.

With this method there wouldn't be a need to just FILL in all the space by making an effectively useless shell that was pumped full of convoluted crap, you'd be able to condense it all into a smaller amount of blocks while also giving yourself a much simpler interface to customize shield behaviors.

Say you want to make a faster regen shield with decent strength, basically a 50:50 build, just go into the interface, drop in the recharge and capacity cells to equal amounts and done, the odd number slot would be set for the optional effect modules. That way you can min-max the type of shield you want.

It's not a perfect suggestion, and there's still some gaps that I can't seem to convey, but that's basically how it'd work.

 

[Zoolimar]

say you've selected a group of 11 wide and high, with 5 deep, that group would then have armor values based on their own blocks as a standard. However, instead of the old "damage reduction" per block, the whole selection is ONE giant pool of armor.

It seems like you are proposing ability to divide AHP pool into parts and ability to strengthen some of the armor blocks up to 5 times at expense of others. That won't make armor better. It will make it worse. It will also lead to more stored information and calculations needed during combat probably.

With emitters, you can basically reduce the amount of space in the ship by condensing it into the emitter block. So for every 11 shield related block, you have 1 block to put them into. However the emitters would have no mass on themselves, but instead would include the mass of the blocks inside of them, this way a 10k mass ship would still be a 10k mass ship, just that it'd have more interior space.

Which means that non RP ships would be smaller and easier to defend and will get an additional advantage over RP ships. If you could condense shield blocks at 10 to 1 ratio it will free a lot of space. Hell for some ships it would mean reducing their volume by 30%.

 

[Lockerd]

It seems like you are proposing ability to divide AHP pool into parts and ability to strengthen some of the armor blocks up to 5 times at expense of others.

the 5x was a typo, only meant to be 3x. And I forgot to include the limit of assigned points for sections in cohesive groups.

That won't make armor better. It will make it worse. It will also lead to more stored information and calculations needed during combat probably.

The way armor is right now only really favors larger vessels, breaking it up into managable pools would be slightly more balanced. Again, not perfect but it does reduce the cast iron whale designs. And instead of dealing with a scale mail design of per block damage reduction, you'd have solid chunks of armor for protecting vital components and for being damage sponges.

Though it could theoretically also include the AHP for non cohesive groups as well, instead of breaking the armor up entirely you'd be able to focus on some key segments while also giving basic armor to the non grouped sections.

As for the calcs, it'd actually reduce the amount of calcs, from both preventing the need to reduce per block, and AHP, to solid set value reduction for what's hit specifically.

Which means that non RP ships would be smaller and easier to defend and will get an additional advantage over RP ships.

why are you trying to balance RP ships with non RP ships? it's not even remotely possible to do this. RP would have to be on its own specially set server if it wants to both include battles and RP.

If one chooses to pit an RP ship against a non RP ship, they should expect to lose. Most of my RP suggestions are there to fit into an RP environment as well as being compatible with a non RP environment.

If you could condense shield blocks at 10 to 1 ratio it will free a lot of space.Hell for some ships it would mean reducing their volume by 30%.

That's the point, it's a space saving method.

 

[Zoolimar]

he 5x was a typo, only meant to be 3x. And I forgot to include the limit of assigned points for sections in cohesive groups.

Which only makes it even worse. Armor already doesn't provide much in the way of protection by itself needing to be built in specific ways. What you propose makes it even weaker meaning that there is no reason to take it over hull or even say multiple layers of girders.

why are you trying to balance RP ships with non RP ships? it's not even remotely possible to do this. RP would have to be on its own specially set server if it wants to both include battles and RP.

If one chooses to pit an RP ship against a non RP ship, they should expect to lose. Most of my RP suggestions are there to fit into an RP environment as well as being compatible with a non RP environment.

Yes, but there is a difference between losing and being stomped into the ground with no damage dealt to the other party. Interiors are empty spaces and light blocks for the most part so on a big enough ship they are more like a rounding error to the effectiveness of the whole ship. They also could be used to slow down missiles (a little).

All of your shield proposition could be changed to "Let's introduce new block that is equal in everything (except volume) to 10 blocks of shield capacitors or rechargers". Effect will be the same.