Giving ship interiors purpose

[Plisko]

I've been exploring a lot of player created content and one thing I notice is that people create beautiful elaborate interiors but they are mostly "doll houses" that do nothing but serve immersion and RP. Half the time I can't even sit in the fake chairs. In the beginning it's really cool to see what people come up with but eventually it just seems like there's no point to walking around because we're basically on a movie set full of fake stuff and it starts to feel like a better use of the space is to just fill it up with systems that actually serve a purpose. I don't do a lot of PvP yet but I imagine those ships don't have elaborate interiors because having a fake kitchen and bedrooms doesn't serve anything in a space battle.

I notice a lot of ambitious goals in the endgame document and that got me wondering if there is any value in creating the tools and systems to build rooms in ships and bases that actually tie into some of those goals. I can think of lots of things but it really depends on what people think would enhance rather than frustrate the experience and how much RTS or "population management sim" type elements the developers want in the end. I'm not suggesting we use these to create "tech trees" which I also know is a dirty word.

At the moment I'm imagining the ability to create specialized departments that sometimes just have simple passive benefits when installed and sometimes offer a sort of mini gaming experience that gives benefits in the meta game when done correctly. These benefits may be for NPC's or enrich future mechanics such as system populations, space phenomena etc. . . . or it could be direct benefits to the ship and player.

Some common space themed departments are:

Astrometrics / Stellar Cartography: It would be a room that helps with better mapping of the galaxy and finding possible space anomalies or phenomenon to study. It could also involve sending out research probes to send back data. Maybe it can help spot asteroids with richer deposits. Maybe it also offers some sort of onboard map to view the basics of the system in RP rather than as part of the HUD.

Botanics / Agriculture: The player might not need food or medicines but maybe the crew or populations of a claimed system do and studies here can help effect this. This, along with a mess hall, med bay, life support and quarters could be part of the requirements for having an NPC crew on a ship. It could involve creating various bio resources.

Science Lab: It seems like there should be some sort of chemistry or physics that could be harnessed to do SOMETHING. Maybe the systems in this lab helps develop mining bonuses, or astronaut gear. . or it is used to help create materials for the blocks that are used in end game type builds. Maybe it gives more functionality to the crew or helps create things that improve other departments. Maybe it helps study the findings by Astrometrics and turn it into useful things.

Engineering: This could give a more efficient way to have extra functionality to ships on the fly such as diverting power to weapons or shields or maneuvering thrusters to give better temporary performance in one area while reducing performance in the others. It could also have the ability to run limited internal repair systems or assist in the creation of gear.

Medical Bay: NPC crews could need them to stay healthy and work at best efficiency. Could be made more efficient with a botanics suite.

Life Support: NPC crews could need it to work on a ship. Botanics could help generate atmosphere.

Military Operations: Used to create or modify player crew or player weapons and train military crew. Could also provide tactical support for battle ships such as a RP display that shows the position of enemies in relation to the fleet, or a special hud that allows us to give individual orders to fleet members.

Hangar Control: Used to give better automation of docking and undocking and better control of AI ships.

Mess Hall: Required for crew and must be designed to meet the intended population. Could require a Botanics suite to operate most efficiently.

Commerce: This could be a room with a node in it that connects to the trade network. It could also involve managing crew salaries or running expenses if they become a thing.

Diplomacy: Maybe there is a diplomat crew member or just an interface in this department to generate random quests that aid in the player faction's reputation with NPC factions.

Manufacturing: It's already been said that they want to allow ships over a certain size to refine resources and manufacture items. This would be the place that happens.

Player Crew Stations: This could be a way to allow a player crew to take on different parts of the cores' functions. One station is just helm control. One is turret control. One is radar jamming and scans. One is hangar/drone control. . . etc. I know we can already do this with weapons computers to aim the weapons. This would just be a way to expand on that.

Assuming I am even in the ballpark here, I'm sure there's more that people could come up with but that's a good start. The goal is really about aiding in adding further specialization and customization to our builds and giving all this space we have in our designs a real functioning purpose rather than just serving as visual props that entertain us for a couple days and then just become the long "scenic route" when moving around in a ship or base.

If you stuck with me and read this far, then thank you.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Yeah, I often feel frustration at spending time building interiors knowing they do nothing but weaken a ship in PVP.

Perhaps an interim to when these areas do provide functionality, perhaps Schine (schema) could implement a few blocks relating to the themes you have nicely listed out here. Or maybe a single block with a dropdown list of these themes to choose from.

These blocks could be placed in the different areas of the ship that contain the themed item in your list, and they add strengths and weaknesses to the ship/station/entity accordingly based on what theme is selected.

Perhaps these blocks could be used in the endgame solution for character based NPCs as a focal point. Perhaps they could also be linked to areas of the ship and systems for future use. This linking could perhaps increase or have a direct correlation with or some equivalent to the HP of an entity. Or other systems like shields, power, turrets, weapons, effects where the theme adds a percentage of strength or weakness to allow for buffing with interiors.

This would then make interiors essential to the game if you want to buff your ship in different ways.

With AI a keen interest of mine, I could go on an on about this stuff.
[doublepost=1502929233,1502929049][/doublepost]Oh I forgot to mention a few other themes.

Command - Who's the boss of this crazyness?
Pilot - Who's gonna drive us James?
Weapons Control - Onboard systems as well as turret control
Communications - Scanner control/inter ship etc.

 

[JumpSuit]

You guys do realize Schine do have plans for interior interaction? and example of this is the *censored* npc crews.... Which when added, will have multiple functionalities, such as: morale, crew quarters, weapon stations, thruster stations, (stations as in the work area, not a space station you goofs) as well as command chairs. Be patient and Schine will deliver.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

You guys do realize Schine do have plans for interior interaction? and example of this is the *censored* npc crews.... Which when added, will have multiple functionalities, such as: morale, crew quarters, weapon stations, thruster stations, (stations as in the work area, not a space station you goofs) as well as command chairs. Be patient and Schine will deliver.

Yes, I do thanks. I've been waiting patiently for the last year or so and have also submitted various suggestions with regards to command chairs and AI.

 

[JumpSuit]

You can't expect these devs to pump shit out, they only a really small group of people working on a game :P

 

[Plisko]

You guys do realize Schine do have plans for interior interaction? and example of this is the *censored* npc crews.... Which when added, will have multiple functionalities, such as: morale, crew quarters, weapon stations, thruster stations, (stations as in the work area, not a space station you goofs) as well as command chairs. Be patient and Schine will deliver.

I realize this. I think I mentioned that this might work well with the NPC's and the proposed sector populations, automated mining and income etc. It's not just about adding stations or chairs, though I am happy that is already in the works. I am hoping that, as they plan those features out, they will reach for more ways to integrate the NPC system, the AI system and other mechanics with the interior work people are already inspired to build. If people are always building med bays and galleys and crew quarters then give them ways for those builds to work with the mechanics somehow so that there is a benefit for doing it. Don't make them even more useless by having a single NPC take over the function without the need for the space, for example.

Even something simple like every NPC crew member you want to add needs a bed and a seat in the galley designated and they need a room somewhere on the entity with a medical block. If they don't detect those things, they will eventually quit. Bam. Now with just that small add, those areas have a purpose. You can still have crew without them but just for a short mission. Keep them around for a while and they get better at the job and do new things. Add something else like a botanical garden or a engineering bay and you add additional bonuses to some individual crew station or all of them overall. People should be motivated to build a whole variety of different kinds of useful interior areas even if it is a very simple mechanic at first like having a single special 'galley block" or "astrometrics" block that connects to ordinary build blocks to designate them as the galley chair, or the telescope or whatever.

If this is old news and it's all in the works then great. I guess I've just walked thorough one too many beautifully built but useless interiors lately and I needed to speak my peace.

If you know of any threads or transcripts with discussions about NPC crew specifics, I'd love a link.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

You can't expect these devs to pump shit out, they only a really small group of people working on a game :P

Thank you for stating the obvious. These are suggestions not demands.

 

[JumpSuit]

Thank you for stating the obvious. These are suggestions not demands.

Clearly it seems like a demand more than anything. You must be blind to see that.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Clearly it seems like a demand more than anything. You must be blind to see that.

E
For example?

 

[Koloss_Meshuggah]

I wish Starmade played like Black Wake or Ironwolf VR. I want to pilot my ship from inside the bridge using buttons and switches. I know that will never happen though.

 

[Plisko]

I wish Starmade played like Black Wake or Ironwolf VR. I want to pilot my ship from inside the bridge using buttons and switches. I know that will never happen though.

It happens in a very limited way with fleet orders and display modules. I actually prefer telling my fleet to move somewhere and then just walking around in the ship while it moves and watching display modules that give me feedback. If you order the fleet to attack the sector or mine the sector the AI will fly around doing stuff while you are riding along as the "captain". I know that's not exactly what you meant but it would be nice if they let us do a lot more by orders rather than HUD controls. We're not captains at the HUD, we're all pilots and helmsmen! Being able to order individual members of a fleet or having individual ship orders like "follow target" "orbit target" or "salvage target" would also be nice.

 

[jayman38]

Interiors were "enhanced" with the "System HP" system. Internal spaces add more to system HP than to armor HP. Also, if interior spaces are placed near the surface of the outer hull, they make decent missile explosion buffer spaces.

Unfortunately, the game is focused on Ship operations, not Astronaut operations, and the 1-m voxel scale is not conductive to good astronaut interaction.

 

[Plisko]

Interiors were "enhanced" with the "System HP" system. Internal spaces add more to system HP than to armor HP. Also, if interior spaces are placed near the surface of the outer hull, they make decent missile explosion buffer spaces.

Unfortunately, the game is focused on Ship operations, not Astronaut operations, and the 1-m voxel scale is not conductive to good astronaut interaction.

That's interesting. So at least empty space counts for something. I don't know that the scale is that big a problem. Minecraft is the same scale and it is all about Steve interacting with the world and other Steves. The 1-m scale is almost becoming the standard on blocky games.

 

[jayman38]

That's interesting. So at least empty space counts for something. I don't know that the scale is that big a problem. Minecraft is the same scale and it is all about Steve interacting with the world and other Steves. The 1-m scale is almost becoming the standard on blocky games.

Generally, the 1-meter block is considered the easiest to work with. It's not so small that you need to use a thousand of them to build a basic structure, but it's not so big that you have elephant-sized blocks that prevent smaller builds. So it's a decent compromise between the tedium of building (not having to place too many blocks to get a structure), and the pleasure of building a more detailed structure (placing enough blocks to get some detail.)

The minecraft world is generally what I would call a "renaissance" setting, where you build plate armor and swords, cook leg-o-lamb, and things are generally at a large scale. The Starmade world, by definition, is a sci-fi setting, where things should have experienced some level of miniaturization. Hence, all the "toys" that ships get, so when you build structures, instead of just having a big wood cabin, you have something that shoots lazers, flies around in space, and generally does something other than sit there to get blown up by TNT.

The "miniaturization" of sci-fi is a good reason to ask for special blocks in Starmade, such as activation "levers" and highly detailed blocks like pipes and control panels. It's also why logic, despite being a really fun mechanic, doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the way it is currently in the game - simply because basic functions require such a big logic machine. It would make more sense to me, if for example, you needed to build rather large and complex machinery for basic weapon, teleport, FTL, and shielding functions. However, as it is, these functions get more automated, "miniaturized" treatment. That helps for making smaller builds, like I build, but is far removed from the scale of logic. So, to me, requests to put logic constructs into a single block make a lot of sense, and more complex ship machinery of other types make a lot of sense.

So keep thinking of blocks that can be a lot of fun for astronauts to play with. For example, I take a lot of pleasure in placing medical and cargo blocks around my interiors, if only because you can actually -do- something with those blocks when running around as an astronaut. I should play with the enhanced display blocks a lot more. There's a lack of astronaut-interactive blocks, decorative or not, and that's a shame.

NPCs might change the game for astronauts in ways that we currently don't anticipate. In normal games, when you get crew for your ship, they are nameless, replaceable, expendable redshirts with no backstory or personal needs. I am hoping that Starmade might be a game where the more NPCs you have around, the more adventures and missions are available for you, if you only just take the time to stop and talk to your own crew. That might be too ambitious for this game. I might have to wait until Starmade 2 (tm) for such a fantasy, since Starmade (1) has always been more about the ships than the astronauts.

 

[Plisko]

Generally, the 1-meter block is considered the easiest to work with. It's not so small that you need to use a thousand of them to build a basic structure, but it's not so big that you have elephant-sized blocks that prevent smaller builds. So it's a decent compromise between the tedium of building (not having to place too many blocks to get a structure), and the pleasure of building a more detailed structure (placing enough blocks to get some detail.)

The minecraft world is generally what I would call a "renaissance" setting, where you build plate armor and swords, cook leg-o-lamb, and things are generally at a large scale. The Starmade world, by definition, is a sci-fi setting, where things should have experienced some level of miniaturization. Hence, all the "toys" that ships get, so when you build structures, instead of just having a big wood cabin, you have something that shoots lazers, flies around in space, and generally does something other than sit there to get blown up by TNT.

The "miniaturization" of sci-fi is a good reason to ask for special blocks in Starmade, such as activation "levers" and highly detailed blocks like pipes and control panels. It's also why logic, despite being a really fun mechanic, doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the way it is currently in the game - simply because basic functions require such a big logic machine. It would make more sense to me, if for example, you needed to build rather large and complex machinery for basic weapon, teleport, FTL, and shielding functions. However, as it is, these functions get more automated, "miniaturized" treatment. That helps for making smaller builds, like I build, but is far removed from the scale of logic. So, to me, requests to put logic constructs into a single block make a lot of sense, and more complex ship machinery of other types make a lot of sense.

So keep thinking of blocks that can be a lot of fun for astronauts to play with. For example, I take a lot of pleasure in placing medical and cargo blocks around my interiors, if only because you can actually -do- something with those blocks when running around as an astronaut. I should play with the enhanced display blocks a lot more. There's a lack of astronaut-interactive blocks, decorative or not, and that's a shame.

NPCs might change the game for astronauts in ways that we currently don't anticipate. In normal games, when you get crew for your ship, they are nameless, replaceable, expendable redshirts with no backstory or personal needs. I am hoping that Starmade might be a game where the more NPCs you have around, the more adventures and missions are available for you, if you only just take the time to stop and talk to your own crew. That might be too ambitious for this game. I might have to wait until Starmade 2 (tm) for such a fantasy, since Starmade (1) has always been more about the ships than the astronauts.

OK I get all that and I agree for the most part. I have actually suggested a system that lets us miniaturize logic into a block the way you mention. It makes complete sense that we would be able to do that in the scifi future. Room sized logic is for Minecraft's steam punk setting. These departments I suggested are most certainly intended to give astronauts more things to play with rather than just giving the ship passive bonuses.

I don't know if you have done much modded Minecraft but I am a huge fan of Direwolf20 and I have a server where I followed his lets play series with his Season 7 FTB modpack. I think Minecraft mods like Steves Factory Manager, Applied Energistics, Industrial Craft, Ender IO, and even some of the magic mods are a great lesson about what can be done to make the 1 meter block format interesting and futuristic to astronauts here. Some of it is done with multi block structures that you build a certain way with blocks and then "activate" to turn them into a detailed model of some interactive device. Some of it is done with pulldown menus and nodes connected in an infographic within a single block. Some of it is done by connecting blocks into large multi block networks using conduits or additional special blocks. Along the way there is lots of materials to be refined and combined into advanced resources and advanced components to be created in order for the player to build their way into it in a method far beyond just basic mining and crafting. I think the modders know more about making the Minecraft voxel format fun to interact with than the Minecraft developers do. I am hoping that Starmade's developers are going to take cues from that as they develop their "vanilla" Starmade experience.