Do Warheads work?

[alterintel]

Warheads need to be reworked, Period.

In their current form they are VERY difficult, if not IMPOSSIBLE, to use effectively.
I just like throwing those pics up when people say that warheads are completely useless, which they are not.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Warheads need to be reworked, Period.

In their current form they are VERY difficult, if not IMPOSSIBLE, to use effectively.
I just like throwing those pics up when people say that they are completely useless, which they are not.

Agreed.

As was mentioned before; it takes several HUNDRED warheads to take out a stationary basic Isanth. I can testify to this as well, since I dumped an entire mag of one of my 100X launchers at one and couldn't kill it. At their current state, warheads are low accuracy, single-use mosquito bites competing in a world of self-replenishing 50 caliber bullets. The shield-bypass argument is like saying the mosquito can squeeze into a building and bite you while the bullets have to chew through stone first. It's a one-dimensional argument that doesn't hold water.

Before anyone mentions the griefer/exploit argument again, it should be noted that most proponents of a warhead buff DO want AI anti-warhead targeting and faction accountability to be implemented; thereby minimizing the potential for griefing/exploits. Another good idea would be to allow logic operated scanners to prevent cloak-ram exploits.

Thoughts ladies and gentlemen?

 

[AtraUnam]

Accounting for the delivery system you need a higher mass of warheads to kill a ship than the mass of the ship itself. Were essentially in a system where they are worthless for regular combat where people do things like move at higher than 1/3 the highest possible speed (which guided torps are capped at) but still useable for griefing in large enough amounts.

 

[Scypio]

Actually, plenty of good ideas were given. People just get too hung up on the shield bypass thing and that's where the discussion stays indefinitely until a flame war starts. Then another thread pops up like this one and starts the process over again.

Many of us want the ability to make a strategic deterrent weapon such as a tomahawk, mine or torpedo. We have no interest in trolling people's bases while they're offline and instead, seek to develop a fair and balanced weapon. Progress on this topic is being held back by the unimaginative, the dishonest and a bunch of PVP fanatics.

That's unfortunate; as warheads have the potential to add some more creativity and realism to combat.

Stop.

You're blaming a part of the community for a bloc they don't even bother to use at all. Warheads are useless and alterintel showed you exactly why they are in this state at the moment. Either warheads completely glitch inside the ship and then explode inside or explode on the hull resulting in no damages dealt.

Only a few number of people use this bloc to troll others while they are disconnected and they are not what we can call pvpers.

Warheads are not a weapon for actual combats, ship to ship, as we got actual missiles ingame to play with. It's a great tool to board a ship and only that. If you want to create things with it that doesn't go for this purpose it is fine but don't blame someone else if you use something out of it's initial purpose and it doesn't work.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Stop.

You're blaming a part of the community for a bloc they don't even bother to use at all. Warheads are useless and alterintel showed you exactly why they are in this state at the moment. Either warheads completely glitch inside the ship and then explode inside or explode on the hull resulting in no damages dealt.

Only a few number of people use this bloc to troll others while they are disconnected and they are not what we can call pvpers.

Warheads are not a weapon for actual combats, ship to ship, as we got actual missiles ingame to play with. It's a great tool to board a ship and only that. If you want to create things with it that doesn't go for this purpose it is fine but don't blame someone else if you use something out of it's initial purpose and it doesn't work.

You're missing the point.

Those of us who take the time to make warhead based weapons want griefing/exploits eliminated in addition to any buff/rebalance that may or occur. The unfortunate truth is that no one wants to discuss warheads in a rational manner in order to come up with a workable solution that satisfies the needs of everyone. So far, every opponent of warheads uses shield-bypass and ramming sticks as the basis of their argument. Did any of these people ever stop to consider ways to eliminate these things?

No. They just stick to their same arguments without offering any constructive input and then a flame war eventually erupts. Warheads could indeed be useful for something other than cheap glitchy exploits but no one seems to want to have that discussion.

 

[alterintel]

Warhead Solutions
1) Link Warhead damage to Player/faction
2) Increase warhead damage vs armor and hull
3) Stealth Overhaul to allow for easier detection of stealth ships at close range.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

1) Agreed +1000... This is a key element to eliminating anonymous/griefing attacks.

2) Agreed. However, we will need to agree on a number. Nothing too crazy but enough to match a medium power missile; bearing in mind that warheads are single use.

3) This needs to be done is such a way that it doesn't discourage jamming/cloaking. I have a few ideas about how to make this work. Feedback is always welcome.
- In Eve Online, you needed a certain amount of distance from all other objects in order to cloak. Schine could make a similar mechanic for StarMade that deactivates cloaks at 500m or 1/10 of the sector length (whichever is greater) from an object.
- Modify the jamming system so that it still removes your icon from the HUD but cuts the engagement range of all AI ships, turrets and guided missiles in half.
- Allow automatic scanning via logic.
- Make scanning able to increase its charge rate, range, and decloak duration using weapon blocks as a secondary effect.

 

[alterintel]

1) agreed
2) disagree: A warhead needs to at the very least be able take out 1 block of advanced armor. Needs to keep it's ability to ignore shields
3) agreed

 

[Dr. Whammy]

So far every opponent of removal of the shield-bypass and ramming sticks have used the low damage warheads do when they ignore shields as the basis of their argument. Did any of these people ever stop to consider ways to eliminate these things?

Typical...

Here's a little test battle I cooked up a while back. To the left is my Pathfinder MK6; a 9,000 mass ship with adv. armor after 20 missile strikes (over 250K damage each) with the shields down. The ship to the right is a standard hull prototype version of the Pathfinder that was specifically designed to disable shields.

As sloppy as my piloting skills were compared to an AI controlled ship I still won this fight despite having the shields down for 80% of the engagement.

If your ship can be taken down by one (or even a few) modified warhead(s), then it shouldn't be in combat in the first place. If you're worried about "scratching the paint" then you have a very unrealistic expectation with regard to combat.

On the other hand, with a "target warhead" option for AI turrets, I'd wager that an opponent would have a much harder time getting their torpedoes to hit me than those missiles.

 

[ZombieMouse]

Personally I would quite like to see C4 as a personal inventory item that can be placed on plex doors you don't own. Perhaps as a counter it isn't anonymous, so it will trigger a war declaration, activating APTs.

As to real warhead blocks, I'd love to see them buffed to allow for more practical self-destruct options for your own ship, and of course mines. As a balance I'd just make AMTs target warhead blocks as a priority.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

Personally I would quite like to see C4 as a personal inventory item that can be placed on plex doors you don't own. Perhaps as a counter it isn't anonymous, so it will trigger a war declaration, activating APTs.

As to real warhead blocks, I'd love to see them buffed to allow for more practical self-destruct options for your own ship, and of course mines. As a balance I'd just make AMTs target warhead blocks as a priority.

Hell yeah! I'd wire the crap out of my bases to make intrusions/invasions a nightmare! Anyone not wearing an advanced armor power suit would end up looking like strawberry jam on toast.

The one thing I'd add; Warheads should not get protection from shields. This paves the way for things like mine sweeper infantry/vehicles while making torpedoes/mines easier to shoot down. It also allows for your ship's torpedo bay to be critically struck for added risk and realism.

 

[ZombieMouse]

Warheads should not get protection from shields.

Good point!