RP vs PVP = False

[Edymnion]

I'm positive the general consensus from the few PVPers here and serverside would be a cross the board "no u", both arguments being about as unreasonable as eachother.

Well in all due fairness, the RP builders don't actively prevent the PvP players from existing. The same cannot always be said about the other way around.

I've yet to see a bunch of RP builders gang up on a PvP player and force them to build a kitchenette. I have seen PvP players gang up on RP players and force them off servers by blowing up everything that wasn't docked 24/7.

A PvP'er on an RP server can still make warships and fight pirates and NPC factions. An RP builder on a PvP server must build warships to survive. Only one of those playstyles dictates what everyone else on the server can do, and thats pretty crappy.

 

[Crashmaster]

A PvP'er on an RP server can still make warships and fight pirates and NPC factions. An RP builder on a PvP server must build warships to survive. Only one of those playstyles dictates what everyone else on the server can do, and thats pretty crappy.

Fighting pirates and NPC factions is not PvP. PvP players are actively prevented on RP servers.

An RP player on a PvP server is allowed and has no need to build warships. If they are smart they do not broadcast their location by claiming a homebase and only claim sectors to mine. Lots of small factions do this. I've done this, it works well. The only thing not allowed is to RP as, "that one all-powerful spaceship that always wins by the end of the episode."

 

[Edymnion]

PvP players are actively prevented on RP servers.

No RP server is going to prevent two players who agree to a duel or a war from doing it.

Only thing they do is prevent unprovoked attacks.

There is a difference between PvP and just jumping people at random.

 

[Batavium]

An RP player on a PvP server is allowed and has no need to build warships. If they are smart they do not broadcast their location by claiming a homebase and only claim sectors to mine. Lots of small factions do this. I've done this, it works well.

Not using a Home Base is a choice. But if you are a none aggressive player. Then i highly recommend to just claim that Home Base. Only people who are prepared to lose everything and anything should not use a Home Base.

This will tell others where you are as Home Base locations are in the Factions list. Also keep an eye out if you use a Shop Block and place your shop in the Trade Network. The location of those shops is also listed in the Trade Network.

But if you keep everything docked to the Home Base then at least your stuff will still be there after you logged off.

I am very good at sniffing out peoples locations. Through various little hints, prediction and the Human factor where people use the same patterns in there behavior.

None aggressive players have often very poor situational awareness. They do not dock their stuff. They do not keep an eye out for who is online. They ignore the a Neutral has entered your System message.

And then i stand before them. With all their ships floating in space. Panic strikes as they scramble around. We are peaceful do not shoot us! They hoist the RP Flag to claim for immunity. In the hope that that might make me look bad if i open fire.

No RP server is going to prevent two players who agree to a duel or a war from doing it.

Only thing they do is prevent unprovoked attacks.

There is a difference between PvP and just jumping people at random.

Well only a third-rate person would lick his lips in front of his prey. And make no mistake you are prey! Like a Lion eating a baby Gazelle.

There is no such thing as Griefing in this game. It flat out does not exist! Anything that can be shot will be shot. Use that Home Base!

Should an aggressor enter your space. Lay siege on your Home Base. Then just run. Flee! Do not linger around. He will not stay there forever. Finding a ship that is jumping away is very hard. As long as you have at least some turrets. Then camping a Home Base with fleets also becomes pretty difficult.

RP servers exist for a reason. They have rules set in place that forbid aggression towards other players. Some RP servers however use aggression as a tool. An example is The Light vs Dark server. It offers for players that want to use it "it is not mandatory" a RP environment in which to do battle.

Ultimately find a server that suits your play style. The default game has no limits or morals understand that when you play on a none regulated server.

 

[Crashmaster]

No RP server is going to prevent two players who agree to a duel or a war from doing it.

Arranged duels and wars are a very small (and less engaging) sub-section of what PvP is. Condoning only arranged duels/wars and placing structure on initiation of attacks is dictating others' playstyle which you claim RP does not do.

There is a difference between unprovoked attacks and jumping people at random as well.

An RP player on a PvP server is allowed and has no need to build warships

Quoted as reminder.

 

[kulbolen]

There is a difference between PvP and just jumping people at random.

what?

 

[Edymnion]

what?

PvP is Player vs. Player.
My definition of what that means is that it is someone who wants to fight another human being because the AI opponents in a game are too easy, too predictable, or generally do not pose a suitable challenge.

To actually be a PvP'er in my book and not just a griefer, you must be in it for the challenge. If you only attack people who are weaker than you or otherwise incapable of fighting back, then you are not playing for the challenge. You can shoot Isanths and NPCs in weak little ships to get that. A PvP'er is going to want to build the best ship they can, and pit it against other people who have built the best ship they can. Whoever loses then tries to improve their own builds and it goes back and forth where the skill of the player defines who wins, not just who has been on the server longer or who has more stuff.

A PvP'er tries to go up against equal or greater foes. A griefer intentionally goes up against weaker foes.

 

[kulbolen]

There is a difference between PvP and just jumping people at random.

PvP is Player vs. Player.
My definition of what that means is that it is someone who wants to fight another human being because the AI opponents in a game are too easy, too predictable, or generally do not pose a suitable challenge.

youve conveniently altered a definition for an existing term to fit your argument.

"Player(s) versus player(s), better known as PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants. This is in contrast to games where players compete against computer-controlled opponents and/or players, which is referred to as player versus environment (PvE)."

it doesnt qualify anything about why players choose to fight each other. its simply player vs player, as oppose to player vs environment. if youre implying that you dont agree with the established definition and yours is better... thats a different topic entirely.

 

[Edymnion]

youve conveniently altered a definition for an existing term to fit your argument.

I'd say its more akin to you choosing the broadest possible defintion. Its like saying single player Diablo III is an online game because you have to log into the server to play. While technically true, nothing about it actually uses the online format except as DRM.

For me, its player VERSUS player. There is no versus if the other player isn't able to fight back in the first place.

 

[kulbolen]

I'd say its more akin to you choosing the broadest possible defintion. Its like saying single player Diablo III is an online game because you have to log into the server to play. While technically true, nothing about it actually uses the online format except as DRM.

its literally nothing like that...

you are purposely contradicting the established definition to make it fit your argument. i didnt choose "the broadest definition," i chose "the established definition." if youd like to actually show me im wrong instead of making things up, show me any kind of respectable or official examples of your version. heres some information from wikipedia, which can be supplemented by more niche community sources:

"Player killing, or PKing, is unrestricted PvP resulting in a character's death. Some games offer open PvP (also sometimes called world PvP), where one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world. A pure PK game is one where PvP conflict is the only gameplay offered. Ganking (short for gang killing) is a type of PKing in which the killer has a significant advantage over his victim, such as being part of a group, being a higher level, or attacking the victim while they are at low health."

notice how it specifically points to scenarios where fights arent evenly matched or a challenge for the attacker, as a class of pvp.

 

[El_Shanta]

PvP is player versus player, shouldn't even need to be said that AI doesn't count here.
As for the random jump in and blast em up, I do feel there should be some long range scanning/sensor option that would allow us to know when and maybe from where someone is jumping towards our position, of course with some scaling power cost. The element of surprise is pretty bloody strong in this universe for sure, perhaps a bit too much.

As with any survival sandbox game, assuming we're all pretending starmade is just any survival sandbox game that doesn't already have both online and offline protection features, really, the reality of your situation is that you're playing with other human beings who may or may not really have the time or effort spare to be considerate of your personal playstyle preference, and they don't really have to, to clarify, they have no contractual obligation to play the game a certain way or not offend any particular in game parties, and the only way to force them to capitulate would be to destroy their in game assets, which would mean doing some PvP yourself that they have no obligation to accept any terms to. Accept its true, realise it's a matter of the -isms and that you literally can't talk the others down in this case, gracefully accept that you cannot change this about other people, move on with your life and indulge in the playstyle you do enjoy instead of screaming into the wind.

There ARE actually servers out there right now that cater to this playstyle, i mean they're dead sure but it's obviously not for a lack of a PvE/RP community, maybe some of you guys should try and revive it a little bit? Probably a lot more proactive than a bunch of us nerds having the same old griefers versus forum-dads argument that's never gone anywhere in the history of multiplayer. Like literally ever.

"The ego says, ‘I shouldn’t have to suffer,’ and that thought makes you suffer so much more. It is a distortion of the truth, which is always paradoxical. The truth is that you need to say yes to suffering before you can transcend it."
Might sound ooc but it's the key to enjoying online video games after that quarter life crises comes along and ruins them.

 

[JinM]

As with any survival sandbox game, assuming we're all pretending starmade is just any survival sandbox game that doesn't already have both online and offline protection features, really, the reality of your situation is that you're playing with other human beings who may or may not really have the time or effort spare to be considerate of your personal playstyle preference, and they don't really have to, to clarify, they have no contractual obligation to play the game a certain way or not offend any particular in game parties, and the only way to force them to capitulate would be to destroy their in game assets, which would mean doing some PvP yourself that they have no obligation to accept any terms to.

This is one sentence?

 

[El_Shanta]

I have good lungs

 

[GalactusX]

As a RP-builder ... and a pacifist ... I always prepare my base for when I am not inside the server in which I play (if this allows the PVP), and I assure that any player, enemy or friend, if Enter into rank of my base, prefer to take another path.

In a ship, the list of weapons to use, and its power may be restricted to size, but the "stationary" power of a base, may have no limit.

That is why I say that a player whose style is RP or PVE, does not mean that he is not prepared for the PVP ... in many cases choose another form of play, because the PVP is boring for him.

Care PVPers, all RP-PVE pacifists have a dark side, do not wake the beast that each one has.

 

[JinM]

Care PVPers, all RP-PVE pacifists have a dark side, do not wake the beast that each one has.

The nicest people are nearly impossible to anger, but if you manage to pass their border, they are worse than any "bad guy" you ever met. ^^

 

[GalactusX]

I remember once, when I started playing starmade, I was a target of several players who dedicated themselves to destroy things in minutes, which had taken me weeks of game ... My solution: just imagine an old flat planet, full of Heat-seeker missiles self-launching, more than 1 million damage each, with recharge of 10 seconds, more than 30 barrels, problem solved, no one came any closer.

 

[Lecic]

Well in all due fairness, the RP builders don't actively prevent the PvP players from existing. The same cannot always be said about the other way around.

I've yet to see a bunch of RP builders gang up on a PvP player and force them to build a kitchenette. I have seen PvP players gang up on RP players and force them off servers by blowing up everything that wasn't docked 24/7.

Right, RP builders typically don't attempt to force PvP builders to put interior in. Besides the fact that most PvP builders already do it anyway, the RP players couldn't do it in game if they tried.

No, RP builders seem to have a much more sinister way of trying to stop those "big bully griefer pvpers!!!!" from existing- by constantly making suggestions and trying to push the devs for mechanics and additions that make open world PvP impossible.

 

[Sgtwisky]

{SNIP}
Non-combat only-

• Passive stop
• Push pulse
  {SNIP}

I know I'm splitting hairs, but you can use push pulse for torpedo launches. So another one goes into the "could support pvp" role.

 

[NeonSturm]

Fighting pirates and NPC factions is not PvP. PvP players are actively prevented on RP servers.

An RP player on a PvP server is allowed and has no need to build warships. If they are smart they do not broadcast their location by claiming a homebase and only claim sectors to mine. Lots of small factions do this. I've done this, it works well. The only thing not allowed is to RP as, "that one all-powerful spaceship that always wins by the end of the episode."

No RP server is going to prevent two players who agree to a duel or a war from doing it.

Only thing they do is prevent unprovoked attacks.

There is a difference between PvP and just jumping people at random.

If that where the case, weapons would do 0 damage on RP servers because blockConfig.xml-editing admins would choose that.

 

[Edymnion]

No, RP builders seem to have a much more sinister way of trying to stop those "big bully griefer pvpers!!!!" from existing- by constantly making suggestions and trying to push the devs for mechanics and additions that make open world PvP impossible.

I still find it amusing how "Make it so people who don't want to PvP don't have to PvP" always gets inflated to "open world PvP will be impossible!".

Lets run with that, can we?

Lets say you're on a server with a magic switch that lets you turn your PvP on/off in some way that can't be abused (however that might work).

Would you personally run around with PvP switched off?

If not, why do you assume that everyone else on a server would use it? If PvP'ers enjoy the danger and the threat, wouldn't all of them turn it off immediately?

If so, why would you leave it on?

Are you afraid that something like this would be abused by having players stay in peace mode until they built up huge unstoppable fleets, only to turn it off and roflstomp the entire server? Isn't "I can't touch them until they bring an overwhelming force against me" the exact same thing as an established player attacking a newbie, only on a higher difficulty scale?

I am, and always have been, genuinely confused why PvP'ers *ALWAYS* react to this sort of thing with "It will kill open world PvP!". I've seen it here, I've seen it in WoW , I've seen it all over the place. Why do people who claim PvP'ers are the majority instantly jump to the conclusion that given the option to not PvP, that every single person but them would choose not to do it?