Rebalance Warheads?

[noname117]

So I was talking to a friend about pvp fleet actions in Starmade and how they never happen because people can just terrorist bomb other people's bases with warheads.

I haven't messed with warheads as much as I should've, but assuming that they do penetrate through shields, I have an idea:

Make it so warheads cannot penetrate through the shields of stations (unless they overpower the shields), but where they can still penetrate through the shields of ships.

This would keep them useful and make them a more anti-ship sort of weapon, to be used mostly on undocked ships which would probably be piloted. This might partially shift the meta from offline attacks to online battles using starships.

 

[kiddan]

Warheads instability makes them pretty well-balanced, as it only takes 1 damage to set one off. However, since warheads can be cloaked and jammed (even permanently), you can't always see them coming. This sends them back into the unbalanced territory IMO, not them ignoring shields.

So, rather than changing damage values/mechanics for warheads, change cloak/jam reliability; All we really need is logic activation for scanners and the problem is near-solved. A big enough station could have a quick-reloading scanner to help protect it from warheads (provided, bigger antennas need to reload quicker than small ones for this to work, don't know if they do that).

If you want to counter an enemy's anti-cloak/jam, build a ship that can take-down their station's shields and snip the antenna in half.

 

[Jojomo]

Warheads instability makes them pretty well-balanced, as it only takes 1 damage to set one off. However, since warheads can be cloaked and jammed (even permanently), you can't always see them coming. This sends them back into the unbalanced territory IMO, not them ignoring shields.

So, rather than changing damage values/mechanics for warheads, change cloak/jam reliability; All we really need is logic activation for scanners and the problem is near-solved. A big enough station could have a quick-reloading scanner to help protect it from warheads (provided, bigger antennas need to reload quicker than small ones for this to work, don't know if they do that).

If you want to counter an enemy's anti-cloak/jam, build a ship that can take-down their station's shields and snip the antenna in half.

Logic activated scanners would mean every ship would fly around scanning as often as possible (probably with logic chain scanners that avoid scan rates) - it would be the end of all cloaking and jamming.

Cloaking just needs to activate its cool-down when the main entity undocks another entity (a torpedo), and when a ship takes damage from warheads that are part of it ("cloaker pokers").

 

[nightrune]

I actually really like the idea that they don't poke station shields, but maybe just having an ion effect that matches or exceeds the warhead would stop it?

 

[alterintel]

Yeah, while I agree that Warheads do need an overhaul. I don't believe that nerfing them by taking away the shield bypass for stations is the way to go. They are still pretty difficult to use, and limiting their functions isn't the best way to fix anything. But the whole cloaked warhead is a real problem as well. To this I say a cloaking and sensor overhaul is needed as well.

Possible Solution for now:
Warheads are pretty easy to take out because only 1 HP will explode them. This is especially true with cloaked warheads, mainly because "poker cloakers" have low shields. Cloaked ships will still set off area triggers. I would suggest setting up area triggered pulses around your base. Done correctly this could make your station warhead proof.

 

[Jojomo]

Yeah, while I agree that Warheads do need an overhaul. I don't believe that nerfing them by taking away the shield bypass for stations is the way to go. They are still pretty difficult to use, and limiting their functions isn't the best way to fix anything. But the whole cloaked warhead is a real problem as well. To this I say a cloaking and sensor overhaul is needed as well.

Possible Solution for now:
Warheads are pretty easy to take out because only 1 HP will explode them. This is especially true with cloaked warheads, mainly because "poker cloakers" have low shields. Cloaked ships will still set off area triggers. I would suggest setting up area triggered pulses around your base. Done correctly this could make your station warhead proof.

Do area triggers work for cloaked stuff?
This would be a bit harder to make effective against torpedoes instead of cloaker pokers...

EDIT: I just checked in-game, area triggers do detect cloaked, jammed ships. So on top of alterintel's idea I'm also thinking stealthed area detection mines with pulse/pulse and can/can, to uncloak anything that comes near, and keep them uncloaked until they're destroyed....

Or, to keep the number of mines low, dock area detecting pulse/pulse to rotating rails inside the station, they'll sweep the same area with fewer "mines" (less thoroughly obviously)
Can a docked entity be cloaked? I suppose not, but if those sweeping mines were stealthed it would be even better.

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

Surprisingly, Yes, a docked entity can be cloaked independently of the entity it is docked to.
Jammed too.

Thus, so long as your station has enough power gen/tank, you could make a cloaked minefield, and have it docked to the station.

It is extremely power-hungry though, so you'll likely want a specialized station for it. (a chain of 2-million output "power entities" with the minefield at the very end of the chain.)


The single biggest "restriction" here, is they won't stay cloaked, anything that un-loads the sector, (no players in/nearby, server reset, etc) turns off the cloak.
With the ease of scanning, you'll probably only get to use it once. (but it should be a glorious F-you)

 

[jayman38]

Suggestion from someone who doesn't deal with cloaking or warheads:
Since the warheads are considered unstable, and cloaked warheads are considered a problem, maybe make cloaking a "destabilizing environment" that auto-detonates warheads. No more cloaker-pokers.

That suggestion prohibits the opportunity to place self-destruct systems on cloaking ships, but cloaking ships are so sparse for rp features, that very few people will put a self-destruct system on one anyway.

 

[Nickizzy]

Suggestion from someone who doesn't deal with cloaking or warheads:
Since the warheads are considered unstable, and cloaked warheads are considered a problem, maybe make cloaking a "destabilizing environment" that auto-detonates warheads. No more cloaker-pokers.

That suggestion prohibits the opportunity to place self-destruct systems on cloaking ships, but cloaking ships are so sparse for rp features, that very few people will put a self-destruct system on one anyway.

This, it should solve any problems. No cloaking or jamming ships with warheads.

 

[Jojomo]

Surprisingly, Yes, a docked entity can be cloaked independently of the entity it is docked to.
Jammed too.

Thus, so long as your station has enough power gen/tank, you could make a cloaked minefield, and have it docked to the station.

It is extremely power-hungry though, so you'll likely want a specialized station for it. (a chain of 2-million output "power entities" with the minefield at the very end of the chain.)


The single biggest "restriction" here, is they won't stay cloaked, anything that un-loads the sector, (no players in/nearby, server reset, etc) turns off the cloak.
With the ease of scanning, you'll probably only get to use it once. (but it should be a glorious F-you)

Awesome! Docked, cloaked, jammed area detection mines spinning on a rail inside the station! Plus area detection and pulses built into the hull.

Combined with massive shield capacity and recharge, this must at least come close to making a station invulnerable? Or at least so much effort that no griefer could be bothered...

I was thinking very small/light mines: really they only need to be able to decloak the ship, not destroy it, the main station turrets can do that.
And although I am someone who's a fan of multiple reactors in a ship, for a station I wouldn't bother, I'd just drop a huge (inefficient) brick of reactor blocks to meet my power needs.