Dynamic Limitations for Ships, Stations, Factions, etc

[StormWing0]

Got an amusing idea from an argument in another topic and thought it deserved a bit of thought.

Why don't we start listing out ideas for how to limit the player dynamically without making them feel they are forced to do something? Basically how would you curb the players building up massive amounts of stations and ships in an area or in general massive stations and ships? Hint it has to be done in a way it doesn't stop them from building to those numbers and masses and is also fun in some way at the same time.

1) Player VS AI Conflict: What happens here is this exploits the fact both the player and AI are going to be working with limited resources even if the resources being mined in a system are respawning at a set interval. Enemy NPC Factions to a given player would try and attack them as able and the more mass a player has in a given area the more likely this is to happen. The more mass a player concentrates in an area the more dangerous the attacks on that area will get until the mass amount starts going down either by losing that mass or it just moving out of the area. Now the player could use their NPCs armies to do the same thing to other players or the enemy AI factions as well allowing them to trim them down so they don't get too dangerous. Keep in mind though as a Faction builds up mass in an area be it player or AI the likelihood of it being attacked by its enemies goes up so even AI factions would try to blow each other up if they got enough mass in an area. So this wouldn't mean to much of an issue for server stability since these fights would likely end rather fast unless loaded but each time a fight breaks out it means there are less ships and resources for them to use if they want to keep fighting and at some point they'll run out and have to hide.


Anyone else got some ideas?

 

[jayman38]

It makes sense that Bigger enemy ships would spawn in for an AI faction and attack. As the player expands, it will be generally fun to face larger enemy fleets, if only to "prove" the more massive installation/ship.

This will force players to build balanced fleets or defensive installations. If a player build a large, mostly defenseless mining fleet, for instance, they will be destroyed by the AI attack, which will probably field mostly combat ships.

To keep from creating massive numbers in the enemy fleet, the AI factions will need access to larger, more powerful ships.

 

[Raisinbat]

Why don't we start listing out ideas for how to limit the player dynamically without making them feel they are forced to do something? Basically how would you curb the players building up massive amounts of stations and ships in an area or in general massive stations and ships? Hint it has to be done in a way it doesn't stop them from building to those numbers and masses and is also fun in some way at the same time.

Adding superweapons that can nuke an entire sector would be effective i think.

1) Player VS AI Conflict: What happens here is this exploits the fact both the player and AI are going to be working with limited resources even if the resources being mined in a system are respawning at a set interval. Enemy NPC Factions to a given player would try and attack them as able and the more mass a player has in a given area the more likely this is to happen. The more mass a player concentrates in an area the more dangerous the attacks on that area will get until the mass amount starts going down either by losing that mass or it just moving out of the area. Now the player could use their NPCs armies to do the same thing to other players or the enemy AI factions as well allowing them to trim them down so they don't get too dangerous. Keep in mind though as a Faction builds up mass in an area be it player or AI the likelihood of it being attacked by its enemies goes up so even AI factions would try to blow each other up if they got enough mass in an area. So this wouldn't mean to much of an issue for server stability since these fights would likely end rather fast unless loaded but each time a fight breaks out it means there are less ships and resources for them to use if they want to keep fighting and at some point they'll run out and have to hide.

Won't this have the opposite effect? If your opponent only attacks you where you are strongest you'll want all your defenses in a big pile where they all count. Spreading out attacks where the fleet ISN'T discourages army piles much more effectively. You can also use this to bait ai fleets into killsectors then salvage them, effectively generating resources...

I think the best way to reduce how much mass people dump into the game would be item tiering; tier 1 shield capacitor, tier 2 shield capacitor, etc. I think people generally prefer flying smaller ships than slow ass titans; being able to sink more resources into the same mass, even if its inefficient in terms of resources, would allow smaller ships to still impact fighting without turning it into a pure mass battle.

 

[nightrune]

Tiering doesn't actually help. It only promotes big faction play.

When I originally proposed the idea it was not for the game to spawn more enemy ships. That tends to exacerbate the problem.

It should be other events.

It could mean you are more likely to get attacked on your borders that are shared. Amass a big fleet somewhere. It makes you open else where.

It could mean you are more likely to have minor malfunctions, or specific cosmic events that don't need ships. Maybe some fauna would be attracted to power? And would flock to it.

 

[Byamarro]

Ok, we know that Schine is for introducing more RTS-like gameplay.
Let's make requirments for resources grow in exponential manner, so player will need to control big territory, which is hard to protect using titans (it's better to have few fast-groups in such situation).
NPC factions could attack AI and non-AI factions to simulate need for protecting existing territory.


Actually tiering could help, let's make better blocks cost super-much but on the other side, they should be lighter. So if you'd want light, but very strong ships, then you'd need to have very good economy.

 

[nightrune]

Ok, we know that Schine is for introducing more RTS-like gameplay.
Let's make requirments for resources grow in exponential manner, so player will need to control big territory, which is hard to protect using titans (it's better to have few fast-groups in such situation).
NPC factions could attack AI and non-AI factions to simulate need for protecting existing territory.

The fact that the galaxy is 3D will intrinsicly have this effect. The surface area of a sphere is 4*Pi*R^2. The bigger your territory the more ships/stations you'll need to have to cover it. Its not exponential but it'll get pretty intensive pretty quickly.

 

[StarWars1981]

Tiering doesn't actually help. It only promotes big faction play.

When I originally proposed the idea it was not for the game to spawn more enemy ships. That tends to exacerbate the problem.

It should be other events.

It could mean you are more likely to get attacked on your borders that are shared. Amass a big fleet somewhere. It makes you open else where.

It could mean you are more likely to have minor malfunctions, or specific cosmic events that don't need ships. Maybe some fauna would be attracted to power? And would flock to it.

MYNOCKS!

 

[Byamarro]

The fact that the galaxy is 3D will intrinsicly have this effect. The surface area of a sphere is 4*Pi*R^2. The bigger your territory the more ships/stations you'll need to have to cover it. Its not exponential but it'll get pretty intensive pretty quickly.

Not really, you can travel fairly fast with jump drives. Noone will build defence stations if your fleet can come from another opposite side of your territory withing 2 minutes.

 

[nightrune]

Not really, you can travel fairly fast with jump drives. Noone will build defence stations if your fleet can come from another opposite side of your territory withing 2 minutes.

That's exactly the point though. You have to protect all sides with fleets and stations.

 

[Jojomo]

I think any non-critical limitations are a terrible thing to be introducing. To change player behaviour you should give them encouragement and reasons to WANT to behave in the way you'd like.

 

[Shaker]

Currently it is not worth making additional stations that dont have homebase protection, any long range missile ship that can get thru the stations shields will have a easy time hanging back with jammer on smashing what you built