Weapon Damage mechanics

[JinM]

What makes more damage? A Cannon-Beam with 3 outputs or a C-B with 1 output?

All weapon modules are connected to one computer. I know that you get more damage if they are all in a separate computer. But do you get damage penalty for each group (a group is every weapon block that touches another) or for quantity (so no matter if they are touching each other or not)connected to one computer?

In my test the 3 outputs destroyed 2 or 3 additional blocks. But I thought it would only count the total number of blocks connected to one computer, not the number of groups as well.

 

[Haalon]

N groups of M blocks do as much damage(in numbers), as 1 group of N*M blocks. But if everything is linked to only one computer, first option will use more energy (N*10% more, if i remember right) than the second one.

 

[Malacodor]

Several smaller weapon groups can do more damage than a single big one, since bigger weapons waste more block damage. It doesn't matter if you hit a block with 3000 or with 100 000 damage, you destroy one block in both cases. It does make a difference for armor HP, though.

N*10% more, if i remember right

It's (N-1)*10%.

 

[JinM]

N groups of M blocks do as much damage(in numbers), as 1 group of N*M blocks.

Did you quote the wiki or tested it for yourself? I mean I am pretty sure that I can count the destroyed block good enough. And when I used 3 groups=3 outputs (not 3 computer) of the same cannon-block count, it destroyed 3 blocks more. And thats why I am asking, I thought the damage penalty comes with the total number of blocks connected to one comptuer and is not also dependend on the number of groups (=outputs) connected to one computer.

 

[Malacodor]

Did you quote the wiki or tested it for yourself? I mean I am pretty sure that I can count the destroyed block good enough. And when I used 3 groups=3 outputs (not 3 computer) of the same cannon-block count, it destroyed 3 blocks more. And thats why I am asking, I thought the damage penalty comes with the total number of blocks connected to one comptuer and is not also dependend on the number of groups (=outputs) connected to one computer.

What was your exact setup? How many weapon modules, which blocks did you shoot at?

 

[JinM]

I have a cannon-beam weapon setup.
One computer cannon, one beam, beam linked to cannon.

I have 50 cannon blocks linked to the cannon computer, i have 50 beam blocks linked to the beam computer.

Now I place the cannon modules all touching to each other. They are one group now, and have one output.
I press the left mouse button and shoot. I remember the hole.

Now I spaced the cannon modules, so I get 3 groups and 3 outputs. Still I have 50 cannon blocks linked to the cannon computer, i have 50 beam blocks linked to the beam computer. One computer cannon, one beam, beam linked to cannon.

Now they destroyed a second hole after I hit the left mouse button. The second hole is 3 blocks deeper than the first hole.

Please have humour, I am glad you want to help ofc.

 

[Haalon]

Did you quote the wiki or tested it for yourself?

Against shields, some small groups will do exactly the same damage as the one big group, if they have the same amount of blocks ofc.
But against blocks, as already mentioned above, large weapons will waste some damage into nothing. And cannons' penetration power dependence on block count isnt linear

 

[Nickizzy]

I have a cannon-beam weapon setup.
One computer cannon, one beam, beam linked to cannon.

I have 50 cannon blocks linked to the cannon computer, i have 50 beam blocks linked to the beam computer.

Now I place the cannon modules all touching to each other. They are one group now, and have one output.
I press the left mouse button and shoot. I remember the hole.

Now I spaced the cannon modules, so I get 3 groups and 3 outputs. Still I have 50 cannon blocks linked to the cannon computer, i have 50 beam blocks linked to the beam computer. One computer cannon, one beam, beam linked to cannon.

Now they destroyed a second hole after I hit the left mouse button. The second hole is 3 blocks deeper than the first hole.

Please have humour, I am glad you want to help ofc.

You may have a problem with what blocks they hit. Try having them like this in a line back:
CBCBCBCBCB so each segment fires it's own shot and they hit the same point. The second test can be CCCCCBBBBB in a line. This should test it accurately. Basically, the disadvantage of having more outputs is more power per output(as the said, it costs ([outputs]-1)*10% more if you have multiple outputs from one computer.

The disadvantage of single outputs is that with something like beams or missiles, they only hit so many blocks per hit, so if you have a missile/cannon that does 1 million damage, it will still have a dinky 3 block blast radius. Beams work the same way, the only pierce 6 blocks deep every tick. Cannons have default punch, so they just keep on flying until they run out of damage.

You can also checkerboard Cannon/cannon with multiple outputs, to dig a large square into an opponent. This is on a much larger scale though, where each shot should break at least and advanced armor. It weeps power though, unless you make each row have an individual computer and logic fire it.

 

[JinM]

You may have a problem with what blocks they hit. Try having them like this in a line back:
CBCBCBCBCB so each segment fires it's own shot and they hit the same point. The second test can be CCCCCBBBBB in a line. This should test it accurately. Basically, the disadvantage of having more outputs is more power per output(as the said, it costs ([outputs]-1)*10% more if you have multiple outputs from one computer.

I just do my test again, still I was pretty sure about the additional blocks destroyed if I use 3 outputs.

 

[Malacodor]

I used the following setup:
a) 1 * 51 cannon + 51 beam -> 14 blocks destroyed
b) 3* 17 cannon + 51 beam -> 21 blocks destroyed
Target was basic hull with 75 HP and 0% armor

If you hit 'G', then click on the cannon computer -> details -> weapon unit, next to "Damage/Penetration" there are a lot of numbers, these are the individual damage instances. If a damage instance destroys a block, then the block behind it is hit by the next damage instance, but a single damage instance can't hit more than one block.

Setup a) shows these numbers (rounded to one decimal place):
458.1, 425.8, 394.3, 363.6, 333.7, 304.7, 276.6, 249.4, 223.1, 197.9, 173.7, 150.5, 128.5, 107.7, 88.2, 70.7, 53.2, 38.1, 24.7, 13.5, 4.8
The first damage instance deals 229.05 to armor HP and 229.05 to the first hull block. Since hull has 75 HP, 154.05 points of damage are wasted. The first 12 damage instances are big enough to destroy a block. Number 13 is 126.5, which deals 64.25 damage to the 13th block, but doesn't destroy it. The next damage instance then destroys the already damaged block. The remaining instances can destroy one more block and heavily damage another one, resulting in a total of 14 destroyed blocks, which is confirmed by the test result.

Setup b) shows these numbers:
196.9, 178.7, 161.2, 144.2, 127.9, 112.2, 97.3, 83.1, 69.6, 57.0, 45.2, 34.4, 24.6, 16.0, 8.7, 3.1
The first damage instance deals 98.45 to armor HP and 98.45 to the first hull block. This time only 23.45 points of damage are wasted. The number of destroyed blocks is 7. Since three of these shots were used that's 7 * 3 = 21 destroyed blocks. The leftover damage after the 7th destroyed block isn't enough to destroy a block even when tripled, so 21 is the final result, which is also confirmed by the test result.

Conclusion:
There is no damage bonus or penalty for group size, the differing results are purely rooted in the way the punch-through effect of cannons works.

 

[DrTarDIS]

use your delete menue to look at your weapon system. Cannons in this case.
damge will have a string of values like 75/45/22/12/5

One BIG gun will do 75 damage to the first block, if it's NOT destroyed it will do another 45 to that same block, if NOT destroyed 22, etc
So the "remainder" of the damage after the strike is discarded. so if you have a cannon with 9 billion damage as first strike, it will do 9 billion damage to that first block, destroy it discarding whatever is left from the 9 billion damage, then penetrate the next block with whatever value is after the 9 billion(probably around 3.5 billion at that point)

SO, yes, 10 individual 10 damage projectiles are more damage efficient than one 100 damage projectile. They are also slightly more laggy (10 times the hit detection) expensive (90% additional power consumption, or 9 extra computers) and space inefficient (waffle pattern, extra computer blocks, etc)

 

[MrFURB]

DrTarDIS knows his stuff.

To paraphrase the above, any weapon that deals more damage than the block it is hitting has health is going to waste some of that leftover damage. This usually isn't a big deal unless you're talking about large anti-capital weapons. When you hit that scale it is always a good idea to begin splitting that one weapon group up into multiple smaller ones.

Shields don't care how many outputs you use. That's why most dedicated anti-shield weapons use one big weapon with a single output.

 

[Madman198237]

Well, that (About shields against weapons) a big weapon has a chance to annihilate shields entirely, engaging that wonderful (Not really) 10 second shield cooldown before they have any protection remaining.

 

[AtraUnam]

Damage = total blocks * 10 * cooldown time