A small guide to power

[jontyfreack]

So one thing I hear quite often is "power sucks" or "how do you do power?" and most of the time those people just place down large blocks of power, that is their problem. So I decided I would see if I could help out in anyway, or make a fool of myself, either way this might be entertaining.

Now lets start with a 5x5x5 block in which we (I) will be placing our power.
Right now I have this:

Now lets put down the 5x5x5 block of power:

This is not an efficient set up for your power at all, and uses more blocks than necessary. So lets fix that shall we?

Now using lines I will outline three edges of the cube like so:

This is a bit less than half the power regen as the 5x5x5 cube, but it is also a lot less blocks. And now to improve!!!

Do the opposite three edges now and you get:

This is quite good, but this can be improved. See the massive gap in the middle of the "cube"? We can now start to fill that, but make sure that these new "power lines" do not touch the others on a face (edges are fine, but not the face) So now:

But lets continue doing this until we get:

As you can see, this is much more effective than a solid 5x5x5 cube of power. I hope that this helps in any way.

 

[Anubis Evo]

So one thing I hear quite often is "power sucks" or "how do you do power?" and most of the time those people just place down large blocks of power, that is their problem. So I decided I would see if I could help out in anyway, or make a fool of myself, either way this might be entertaining.

Now lets start with a 5x5x5 block in which we (I) will be placing our power.
Right now I have this:

Now lets put down the 5x5x5 block of power:

This is not an efficient set up for your power at all, and uses more blocks than necessary. So lets fix that shall we?

Now using lines I will outline three edges of the cube like so:

This is a bit less than half the power regen as the 5x5x5 cube, but it is also a lot less blocks. And now to improve!!!

Do the opposite three edges now and you get:

This is quite good, but this can be improved. See the massive gap in the middle of the "cube"? We can now start to fill that, but make sure that these new "power lines" do not touch the others on a face (edges are fine, but not the face) So now:

But lets continue doing this until we get:

As you can see, this is much more effective than a solid 5x5x5 cube of power. I hope that this helps in any way.

Good guy Jonty helping out the community with more than just Mommy Issues :p

But really though, I think it will help people out.

 

[NeonSturm]

Actually this explains it a lot better than videos or min-maxing topics.

Showing newcomers 5* 5x5-layers is good if they have understood what you just explained.

In a post like this, everyone has as much time as he needs to look at the picture/text without having to stop the video and go back to see the picture again or read through complicated discussions about "whether 127x9x9 or 23x23x23" is better.​

So what's the point of this post? We should have "easy tutorials" which go step by step.

1. Showing the easiest thing you can do to get a bit more out of it.
2. Explaining one good design
3. Explaining min-maxing, but don't show the very best example
   • The example shown should have 20 instead od 18 logic blocks or something similar minor (10%) so that everyone can improve!

If you show the very best example possible nobody can have personal secrets or the feeling to have archived something.

 

[Drumboy168]

Actually this explains it a lot better than videos or min-maxing topics.

Showing newcomers 5* 5x5-layers is good if they have understood what you just explained.

In a post like this, everyone has as much time as he needs to look at the picture/text without having to stop the video and go back to see the picture again or read through complicated discussions about "whether 127x9x9 or 23x23x23" is better.​

So what's the point of this post? We should have "easy tutorials" which go step by step.

1. Showing the easiest thing you can do to get a bit more out of it.
2. Explaining one good design
3. Explaining min-maxing, but don't show the very best example
   • The example shown should have 20 instead od 18 logic blocks or something similar minor (10%) so that everyone can improve!

If you show the very best example possible nobody can have personal secrets or the feeling to have archived something.

If others don't do their best then what's the point of you trying to?

 

[NeonSturm]

If others don't do their best then what's the point of you trying to?

You have the choice if you want to spoil yourself in the CC or by searching through the forum or asking peoples in MP…

or give it a try (to get a better result than you see in the tutorial).​

You can not get one most efficient min-maxed solution for reactors.

You have again the choice of a near-equally sized cube for smallest ships, a few lines for most efficiency and no hassle of crossing lines left/right, up/down and some complex 3D cross for most efficient reactors in the smallest 3x2y5z ratio-ships.

Which is about the only good thing, but the advantage wears out as soon as you completed these standard-"quests".
Because of this, I wouldn't overload newcomers with one of these designs but just give a hint they exist and let them give it a try or search around.​

 

[Batavium]

This works for small ships.

If you ship is big enough then just forget about shapes. Use long strait lines that do not make contact to each other. The longer the better until you hit the 4 million cap.

Is your ship long and wide use the x and y axis from a single point. "L shaped lines" Try using the biggest dimension available in your ship.

In a cubical shaped ship use all axis x y z from a single point. Thirth picture from the top. Try using the biggest dimension available in your ship. Mirror another one diagonal to your first one. Keep adding lines at an offset until you hit the 4 million cap.

Want to break the 4 million cap and not use docked reactors? Just pile on a massive block of energy modules. I would rather go with a docked reactor at that point.

Edit:

There is a 2 million cap on energy. I stand corrected by Madman198237

 

[Madman198237]

It's a two million cap, not 4 million, Batavium.

 

[Sibylline]

Here are some additional bits of knowledge to aid in future designs:

The secret behind why power 'lines' are so much more efficient than full cubes lies in what are known as box dimensions. Box dimensions provide a bonus to each group (multiple blocks with touching faces) based on the total x, y, and z dimensions of the group added up.

The fewer and larger groups of power blocks you have, the more efficient each power block will be. This also makes them more vulnerable. Because they are usually much cheaper to obtain than the other components they power, some care in making redundant power groups should be taken.

It takes 80,000 power blocks to gain an additional 2,000,000 power generation once past the 'soft cap' provided by box dimension bonuses. Each power generator costs 20 metal mesh. That is an investment of 1,600,000 metal mesh for a power generation to Re(source) ratio of 1.25.
A simple 2 mil docked generator providing ~1,599,840 power per second with no redundant systems has a converted (capsules = 2, byproduct = 1) Re of ~1,047,009 for a power generation per Re ratio of ~1.53.
The largest difference between using brute-force generation and docked generation is the volume of space required, as docked generators will normally take between a tenth and an eighth of the space of their equivalent in mass power blocks.

To compound on that knowledge, the vast majority of resources used in docked generators are used in the power supply beams. If one plans well ahead and finds a way to bypass the need of power supply beams, they could make use of a much larger amount of power generation at a much lower cost, perhaps reaching a power per Re ratio of 40 or more.

 

[DexterousGecko]

Well, my mind is blown. Holy. Why is that like this?

 

[jontyfreack]

Well, my mind is blown. Holy. Why is that like this?

because we don't like simple things here in the land of starmade, and because engineering a ships reactor is much "more fun" than just simply placing down a block and calling it a day.

And that is why I made this thread, to try to make something very complicated and to dumb it down to its basics to try to help

 

[GRHayes]

So one thing I hear quite often is "power sucks" or "how do you do power?" and most of the time those people just place down large blocks of power, that is their problem. So I decided I would see if I could help out in anyway, or make a fool of myself, either way this might be entertaining.

Now lets start with a 5x5x5 block in which we (I) will be placing our power.
Right now I have this:
Now lets put down the 5x5x5 block of power:
This is not an efficient set up for your power at all, and uses more blocks than necessary. So lets fix that shall we?

Now using lines I will outline three edges of the cube like so:
This is a bit less than half the power regen as the 5x5x5 cube, but it is also a lot less blocks. And now to improve!!!

Do the opposite three edges now and you get:

This is quite good, but this can be improved. See the massive gap in the middle of the "cube"? We can now start to fill that, but make sure that these new "power lines" do not touch the others on a face (edges are fine, but not the face) So now:
But lets continue doing this until we get:

As you can see, this is much more effective than a solid 5x5x5 cube of power. I hope that this helps in any way.

The biggest issue I seen with people and power on here isn't so much the laying down of big blocks of power it is two other issues.
The first is those who don't understand how the power formula works and think volume is actually some part of the equation.
GroupPower = BlockPower + SizePower
where:
BlockPower = 25 * NumberOfBlocks
and:
SizePower = 2000000 * 2 / ( 1 + 1.000348-0.333*(SumOfDimensions/3)1.7) - 2000000

It isn't length or combined length of the dimensions is.

That Sumofdimensions power per block will increase until it totals 898 which will give you 1660 per block.

However you have a soft cap of 2 million where blocks just give you the base added amount. So you get no bonus at all after that point.

Lots of people choose to put down large blocks of power in large ships because other methods have proven unreliable over time or have other drawbacks.
Consider thrusters only get their power from the main ship. That means the main ship has to be able to produce the power for them.
You could try docked module however power transfer back to the main ship is riddled with bugs and nerfs. You only get at max 80% by design. That would be ok if the power supply beams didn't loose a tick, didn't use so many tubes and blocks themselves, and didn'thave issues with ungrouping like other large systems.

You can transfer power up the chain quite easily. You can dock a powersupply to a another and chain them to make massive power supplies.
I do have to admit they are working better than in the past. But you still don't have a reliable way to send it to the main ship.

Small 5x5x5 power supplies can be stuck directly against each other or they loose efficiency also. So if you had a 35x35 area for power you would loose out using 5x5x5 power supplies you would be better off making 7x7x7

If you are talking efficiency trying to make something massively powerful the strait line is the most efficient method when it comes to docked power reactors simply because you can put more of them by far next to one another. Each power supply produces 1.495 M and there is 128 of them chained. The way it is built I can keep docking more to it.

Spoiler

Then there is the issue some of us like using our brains to solve problems and get the most out of what we can with in the rules. Others just like to have it easy and simply want to play the game while some just don't care.

 

[DexterousGecko]

because we don't like simple things here in the land of starmade, and because engineering a ships reactor is much "more fun" than just simply placing down a block and calling it a day.

And that is why I made this thread, to try to make something very complicated and to dumb it down to its basics to try to help

I really appreciate this guide. So many videos out there either just put the power in blocks or some random european guy (who's awesome btw) just says "put them like this because!" and I was left with a 'uh..ok?' feeling lol

 

[NeonSturm]

You can transfer power up the chain quite easily. You can dock a powersupply to a another and chain them to make massive power supplies. I do have to admit they are working better than in the past. But you still don't have a reliable way to send it to the main ship.

Never thought of this because I don't use more than 3 docked reactors.

I am more busy with logic and 350m 200m 500m ships which I built once.

The 300m is oldest and used 1 mil cap with 4 groups in a 3D cross, but I extended it to 350 on all 6 sides for the new cap.

It used 2/4 reactors docked on 23^3 docks which I extended for the 2 million cap now.
The reactors are docked around the centre of the big cross.
I built a spherical "aesthetic-shield" at 150m radius which looks now a bit odd, so I added more water-blocks as a skin-shield around the added tips sticking out of this bubble. This left my bio-dome intact.​

500m is built with power-lines which in the centre extend in all directions.

The 3/6 new reactor-sticks replaced the 2/4 old ones and are longer, but not as tall or wide as the old.
Original docked 127x9x9 line-only reactors where replaced by the new ~400m long ones with the rail system and new soft-cap which was easy because I had a huge doomsday-beam system in front of them and thrusters behind them.​

200m is the newest, a WIP build for flexibility

It has power-L3Ds (3D L-shapes) for each of 8 corners of the centre room and diagonally opposite L3Ds connect to each other.

The centre room is not the core-room.
It should be the room not directly above/below your core room so that you don't have to connect opposite L3Ds around your pretty core room and have space expanding your core room.
​

It will offer 4 line-reactor docking slots and rails for docking them from infront/behind and also ejecting them in both directions.

They will be positioned left/right * above/below –4 corners of a square– inside the centre box from front to rear.
This centre-box will free-floating corridors, logic-corridors and perhaps turbo-lifts.
​

R200-Reactors build by me should be self-sufficient ships, with own power/shield generation which is shared to the main-ship.

If I transfer shields, I don't have to transfer power!
Especially when I can use that power for static weapon-systems which are in these reactors instead of the main ship.
​

R200-Reactors will also have thrust (makes docking easier) and bobby-AI (because they are self-sufficient ships).

When you kill my flagship, you should still have to kill my reactors!
When you try escaping my flagship, you should also be able to escape the fastest one of my reactors!

Yes, they are different in speed and firepower/shielding.
​

I hope I can get the reactors to share shields with the opposite one so that not a single one get killed while the others become full during the main-ship's shield-blackout.

If I move these reactors 1 block up/down via rails or left/right, I could link/unlink them so that they share shields to the main-ship instead.
​

Pretty complex stuff, but I want a high-tech ship showcasing new build options rather than min-maxing space usage.

Spoiler: More ship info

300m was built on sunworld as "Homeworld v0.4" as my first big ship, maxing the server-limit on size as a 3D cross which never fully loaded.

• This ship is private and may serve as mobile faction-home when aesthetics are finished - but now it needs a massive overhaul with which I wait for balance-decisions, fleet or AI updates - too many variables to continue jet.

500m was built as a testing ship as a frame for logic installations and testing only with little else.

• which is mostly just chunks stuck together around a power-pipe with a few docked reactors and unfinished, buggy and abandoned logic-circuits on it.
• Will probably never be uploaded with showcase-circuits being moved to the new 200m design.

200m is built for 2*2n rooms which are fully accessible from the outside and offers a logic bus-system for exchanging data with some basic thrust, power and jump added - only power is built complex, the other systems placed in chunks.

• The design is basically an unfinished motherboard.
• It will offer redundant logic, error-detection and correction and a bus-system to link logic projects together.
• It should check for unloaded chunks (callback) and every block is additionally linked to Flipflop-counters which report missing blocks.
• Currently I do a massive overhaul, making custom and/or/not/xor-elements and whole operations which are designed
  1. for increased performance with reduced overhead at redundancy.
     
  2. for reduced overhead in missing-block reports.
     
  3. for asynchronous execution of (2)*2 tasks with a fall-back to fully synchronous (4)*1 error-correction.

 

[GRHayes]

Never thought of this because I don't use more than 3 docked reactors.
...

I used docked power supplies like you are talking in the past. In fact there are probably a few ships in the community area I put in that have such docked systems.

If you look at ToyBox in the community ignoring the quad-armor it is fairly representative of power systems in smaller ships I build now.
You can see there is plenty of room in it to add a lot more. Even ships that aren't cubes tend to have lots of room left over. Unless I am building something pretty small intentionally or based on a specific visual appearance.

If you can understand the shielding on it you might make use of the idea. You could tie every other block to another shield system rotating it. That would be easier than the quad armor. I'm not going to lie quad armor is a bitch to build large scale. You will need to shut down and reload your game several times. Primarily because the game will see blocks or get bounding boxes messed up and only cure is a reload.

That 190Meg Power system was supposed to go into a little over 1 K Ship. In total I was planning on 5 of them 4 power. That would have given me close to 1 Billion in power. I stopped primarily because weapon groups made that can use such a system are ungrouping.
I was going to make a cross between a battleship and carrier. Enclosed landing area with battleship style massive gun top bottom and sides along with 2 supper weapons.

The 3 L is fairly efficient you can 1/4 corkscrew and get the same thing. consider this Set down 7 blocks in a strait line on the end one you go strait up at the top you go left or right. That technically is a 1/4 cor screw you can make it any shape size and count to fit the inside of your ship. Just don't turn back any direction you already have blocks.
As I probably mentioned above the 1 block L is the most efficient. Most efficient space and power is what i pictured above.

 

[Mork2]

For large ships. Once you have a set of long lines of power reactors that generate around the 2mil softcap, you can double that amount of lines so your power generators can still generate max power even if half the power reactor lines are cut in combat. If need far more power generation after that and don't want to use docked reactors you can always just place down blocks of power reactors. I would just keep them separate from the power reactor lines you already have set out.