Turn ship systems into [modules] instead of [# of blocks] - fighting giganticism

[Bkwrm]

I realize this won't go anywhere, but just thought I'd throw it out there as food for thought. Last I played (admittedly like 6 months ago) most ship systems are defined by the number of blocks you use to create them. Some of them have shaping requirements as well. Basically it's almost always more effective to go for giganticism simply because you have more space to shove in everything and use enough blocks for it to be effective.

What about changing this so instead you use blocks to craft a larger [module] that is than placed like a block? It will have a set output. Making 20 Powers Cells that get combined into 1 larger Power Reactor [module] that is than placed on the ship for example.

This helps with:
A. Targeting. Would be far easier to create an interface that will target an entities [modules] as opposed to trying to figure out where the biggest clumps of x power cell are for example. Same for when people try to come up with ways to break whatever logic you use to figure out the current system.

B. Balancing. You can limit the number of [modules] that will work on a single entity as well as adjust the outputs of each. This can be used to give reasons to different size ships as well.

C. Obtuseness. The current system can be pretty confusing, especially as block balancing is done. Especially for new players who might not visit the forums and have a large learning curve ahead of them. Also, instead of having to remove or add blocks all over your ship, you can just adjust the number of [modules] needed, or swap them out simply if you want to change systems.


Right now the only way to balance the blocks are through size and mass of ship. This directly discourages building interiors as well instead of just leaving a big empty space with some corridors and a pilots room. Dunno, my 2 cents on a feature that's already set in stone.

-EDIT: The new LOD for complicated block shapes could be used to make fancy reactor or weapon parts for the [modules] as well.

 

[sayerulz]

WHYTHEHELLAREPEOPLESTILLTRYINGTONERFBIGSHIPSSMALLONESAREALREADYBETTERJESUSCHRIST

 

[Bkwrm]

WHYTHEHELLAREPEOPLESTILLTRYINGTONERFBIGSHIPSSMALLONESAREALREADYBETTERJESUSCHRIST

You misunderstand. large ships can simply jam in what they need while while still being able to have interiors or sacrifice design. I'm not just talking about fighting them because MORE POWER, but space required for parts. I'd love to be able to build small/mid size ones that aren't just about using every square inch of space for reactor/shield/weapon parts.

I'm a builder, I enjoy making things and don't care about juggernauts of destruction. Also points A and C that you ignored.

EDIT - spaces are nice, my eyes glazed over your point at first.

 

[Madman198237]

If you don't want a super combat vehicle, don't make one. Build a small ship with interior and almost no weapons instead.

 

[Lecic]

This would require adding hundreds of new block IDs. Not to mention the balancing nightmare of this, there's also the fact that blocks can only have so much HP.

And, no, adding multiple tiers of blocks is not how you make things "less obtuse" for new players.

B. Balancing. You can limit the number of [modules] that will work on a single entity as well as adjust the outputs of each. This can be used to give reasons to different size ships as well.

You can already limit the amount of a module allowed on a ship in the configs.

 

[Bkwrm]

If you don't want a super combat vehicle, don't make one. Build a small ship with interior and almost no weapons instead.

Fair enough, that's what I usually do actually. Last server I played on I just made a giant squid thingy and traveled around vising other players bases.

This would require adding hundreds of new block IDs. Not to mention the balancing nightmare of this, there's also the fact that blocks can only have so much HP.

And, no, adding multiple tiers of blocks is not how you make things "less obtuse" for new players.

I thought this would help a lot. It is much easier to build a singular Power Reactor that is than placed in the ship instead of winding power lines around inside the ship trying for large box dimensions while making sure no flat surfaces are touching, correct? And than adding shield capacitors/reactors in the gaps between power lines.

It would also add 1 block id for each type of ship system that you would want targetable, a final [module] block. Current block is [parts], final crafted block is [module]. Hell, after a month of both blocks with players adjusting, you could eliminate the middle [parts] block and just craft the straight [module] in the current crafting system (freeing the old IDs).



I'm not trying to force my ideas down people throats, just an alternative idea that is food for thought going forward. I've always thought the current system was pretty odd in the scheme of things.

 

[Lecic]

I thought this would help a lot. It is much easier to build a singular Power Reactor that is than placed in the ship instead of winding power lines around inside the ship trying for large box dimensions while making sure no flat surfaces are touching, correct? And than adding shield capacitors/reactors in the gaps between power lines.

If you're removing the old system completely, then yeah, that would make things simpler. But why the hell would you want that? Starmade's much more in depth systems engineering compared to, say, Space Engineers, is part of the reason so many of us enjoy this game.

It would also add 1 block id for each type of ship system that you would want targetable, a final [module] block. Current block is [parts], final crafted block is [module]. Hell, after a month of both blocks with players adjusting, you could eliminate the middle [parts] block and just craft the straight [module] in the current crafting system (freeing the old IDs).

You can't just get rid of the old blocks. You either keep them or immediately replace them with the new ones. Otherwise, every single ship with those blocks on it will become a corrupted mess. Old blocks are NEVER removed. They're just made non-functional.

Also, you cannot just have your "module" blocks. It won't work. It doesn't scale properly.

I'm not trying to force my ideas down people throats, just an alternative idea that is food for thought going forward. I've always thought the current system was pretty odd in the scheme of things.

It's pretty odd to require actual thought and design in your ships?

If you really want to experiment with what effects this would have on gameplay, make a custom config where everything costs 20x as much to make, provides 20x the power, and has no grouping bonuses.

 

[Bkwrm]

Dunno, I'll be the first to admit it was a poorly thought out suggestion. Honestly, with the game at the stage it is I wasn't expecting anything to change really. Not saying the current system isn't doable, I just like the idea of having ships designed like ships with power reactors and shield generators that can be targeted individually and knocked out eventually. Not having them flowing throughout your ship as you line your inside hulls with them. Make things a little more tactical rather than just firing at them and focusing a spot hoping you hit something important.

It's pretty odd to require actual thought and design in your ships?

Actual thought and design? Wouldn't really change much tbh. It would just be a single large block with a set output instead of a clump you spread all around until you have enough (yet are a pain to replace or adjust since you have to find all your clusters). Both ways would require you to have enough space to place them and need designed around, I never said it would be the size of a single block.

 

[Lecic]

I never said it would be the size of a single block.

The game engine does not support blocks that are larger than one block. Unless you mean just making it so they have to be built out of the smaller "modules" to build a bigger block, in which case, well... this can just be accomplished with a simple config change. I feel like forcing players to centralize their systems into modules like this goes against what this game is supposed to be, though, and it also fucks over people with irregularly shaped ships.

 

[Bkwrm]

True, fair enough.

I had no idea block size was hard coded in, I assumed as long as its size evenly matched the dimensions of an equivalent number of blocks it would be fine.

 

[FatCobra]

I think the concept would be some sort of multi-block structure to make a reactor similar to "Big Reactors" from Minecraft.

 

[spunkiethefirst]

Perhaps a compression block or a compression mode button added to a storage block.

Spoiler: how it would work

Whatever you put in it will apply to the ships system its a part of.

At least one exterior module of that system must remain placed on the ship.

Destruction of all exterior modules turns the compression block to dead weight.

Destruction of the compression block dumps it's contents.

The compression has a mass penalty greater than applying the blocks directly to the ship.



weapons:
- c on weapon computer and v on the compression block

effects:
- same as weapons

scanner:
- same as weapons
- the scanners restrictions are still based on the entity its attached to ( wouldn't be worth putting on the small docked scanner cores)

jump drive/ inhibitor:
- same as weapons

power:
- still has the dimensional shape bonus as though all blocks were placed in a single line in the case of reactors and all capacitors are considered touching
- soft cap still applies

cargo:
- link to storage block using c on storage v on compression block then fill the compression block with either storage or cargo blocks

- the mass penalty would make this a bad idea on ships but an excellent choice for storing massive amounts at a base without creating lag inducing cargo stacks.

structure hp:
- applies the same structure hp as though the blocks were placed on the structure, that hp is lost upon destruction of the compression block

armor hp:
- armor placed in the compression block has no effect

warheads:
- no

mass enhancers:
- no different from applying directly to ship aside from mass penalty mentioned at the beginning

factory enhancers:
- c on the factory and v on the compression block fill in the compression block with factory enhancers
- factory enhancers need not be exterior as the factory counts in this instance