Should Chain Drives Remain?

[Lecic]

Should chain drives remain in the game? I argue that they should remain in the game. The ability to quickly travel in a small package is balanced by its massive weakness to inhibitors. I think that travel speed and inhibitor resistance should continue to be separate variables like they currently are.

 

[nightrune]

I love them, but I agree with balancing in a way. Really we need jump signatures in sectors. A way to identify that people have been moving through.

 

[Nickizzy]

I love them, but I agree with balancing in a way. Really we need jump signatures in sectors. A way to identify that people have been moving through.

Like a waypoint trail where they jumped? Yes please. No more jumping out right when you're shields drop below 50%

 

[Deveyus]

Chain Drives represent a fundamental break-down in the way jumping is handled, regardless of their ability or inability to be countered which is perfectly debatable, they show that the baseline system is in need of workaround to be tolerable. Chain Drives need to go, but it needs to be part of a larger overhaul to how jumping works that includes:
- The ability to detect incoming jumps and potentially divert or counter them.
- The ability to inhibit local jumps (we have that, but it needs to stay)
- A more fun mechanic for how jumping is handled, like having jump drive ratio determine travel time (spent in 'warp') rather than time to initiate (should be roughly static per ship, likely scaled on mass).

So, yes, Chain Drives need to go, but they need to go as part of a larger, overall, problem.

 

[Ithirahad]

I've expressed my opinion on this sort of thing repeatedly. Chain drives aren't good. Not because they aren't balanced - thanks to a lucky combination of factors, they are - but because in the end, they're a workaround for the crappy default jump drive mechanic. Nobody wants to sit somewhere for 20 seconds holding a button just to see a cool effect for 2-3 seconds and then have to hold a button for 20 seconds again.

If jump drives by default are too slow - and they are - either they need a buff (which would be lazy, and not actually a very good idea), or they need mechanical changes, or perhaps they need to be replaced, perhaps with a warp drive, which I still don't understand why the devs insist needs to be a capital system.

If anything, as alterintel suggested during stream, jump drives should be the capital system, with a 1-minute, interruptable charge-up time, able to jump a long way and even bring an entire fleet with them, while a continuous FTL should be the default mode of travel between systems.

(Likewise with docked reactors. Sure, the science is great and all, but in the end, the game shouldn't require you to jerry-rig something weird with the automation/logic gate system that isn't within the defined feature set just to fly a ship that needs more than 2 million energy units per second. It might be fun, but it's not very good game design practice as it just makes the game harder to get into for no good reason)

I think the overarching issue here isn't even jump drives, but the inability to track someone's jumps. Regardless, though, jump drive does need - at the very least - some major adjustments.

 

[Reilly Reese]

Why as this even brought up?

 

[Deveyus]

Why as this even brought up?

It's a problem, one that impacts pretty much the entire playerbase, and needs to be addressed.

 

[Reilly Reese]

It's a problem, one that impacts pretty much the entire playerbase, and needs to be addressed.

It's a damn feature dammit!

 

[Ithirahad]

It's a damn feature dammit!

No, it's an unintended use of a feature to go around a feature that was implemented in a boring and unsatisfactory way. It's not an exploit, per se, but it is definitely neither an intended feature nor a desirable one. For now, though, it's necessary.

 

[Dragleones]

Why as this even brought up?

The thing is. Jump drives work the exact opposite way they should.

They are an excellent tool to suddenly escape a losing battle.

Are they meant as an escape tool?
Well ,we have push/pull/overdrive defensive effects for that. And while we may be able to conter them using jump inhibitors, an instant escape mechanic is just a flawed design.
Even if a countermechanic does exist this doesn't mean that it isn't broken.


On the other hand they are just annoying to use for continous travel.
Their range is far to short, which makes the downtime due to the recharge even worse.
Then how about just increasing their range?
Please no. Long distant instant travel (wormholes and portals aren't affected as much since they are stationary) always destroys player interaction (Just look at your average mmorpg).

Like Deveyus and Ithirahad said.
There are some major flaws in the basic design of the current short range instant travel system.

 

[SchnellBier]

I think jump drives need a overhaul. Chain drives should be unnecessary. Here some ideas what I think a jump drives should be:

1. max jump distance:
- should depend on the number of jump modules on a ship

--> to make long jumps you need a big ship to fit lots of jump modules
--> smaller ships are automatically short range vessels if they aren´t specialised to be a jump ship
--> supports carrier mechanics

2. charge time of a jump:
- should depend on ratio of jump modules to the ship mass and the jump distance

--> small jumps are pretty fast (of course there should be some kind of min charge time to prevent instant jump)
--> long jumps take their time but as long as you have enough jump modules you can jump a long distance

3. jump process:
- after pressing the jump button there should be a constant power drain to charge the jump drive
- the ship should not be able to move while charging/only charge if stationary (staying stationary to calculate the jump)
- a charging animation should start immidiatly to let others know that this ship tries to jump (some kind of jump portal opens in front of the ship or something)
- a jump animation should start immidiatly at the destination of the jump (everyone at that location can easily tell that there´s a ship incoming)
- after jumping there should be jump signature for a limited time that enables others ships to follow if their jump drive is big enough (maybe with a faster charge because they just have to follow the signature)
- make it possible use jump inhibitors on the jump destination to prevent jumping to it.

--> jumping makes you more vulnerable while charging
--> jumping into an enemy sector is a bad idea since everyone sees you coming and can already aim their weapons on your position

4. jump time:
- add a travel time while jumping (immersion woohooo)
- travel time depends mostly on the distance but the jump module/mass ratio should have influence

--> it makes it possible to overtake a ship while jumping after you follow a jump signature if you have a fast ship


I think if the numbers are balanced correctly this could be a pretty good system. Warp gates would still be useful because they enable ships with small jump drive to travel large distances and also don´t have a charge time (for the ship).

 

[PizzaPress]

The reason for jump drives was probably at least partly to make fast movement have a set destination. Jumping somewhere probably gives a hidden loading time. So while hyperdrives are something I would like to be default, instantly dropping out of warp when you feel like it might not be an option.

 

[therimmer96]

The reason for jump drives was probably at least partly to make fast movement have a set destination. Jumping somewhere probably gives a hidden loading time. So while hyperdrives are something I would like to be default, instantly dropping out of warp when you feel like it might not be an option.

Ordinarily, in any other game, like Elite, and Star Citizen, this would be the case. But it's not. Dropping into a sector even with current jump drives still has the time where you can't see stuff, and then everything loads chunk by chunk. it's a glorified /change_sector command.

 

[Madman198237]

I would prefer for a jump system based on range and efficiency. The more jump blocks you have, the larger distance you can jump. Period.

The more jump blocks you have IN RELATION TO the size of your ship, the less power it costs to charge your jump drive. As in, it takes x number of seconds to charge a jump drive, but range and power cost change based on module numbers....not time required.

 

[Lord Daro]

I think jump drives need a overhaul. Chain drives should be unnecessary. Here some ideas what I think a jump drives should be:

1. max jump distance:
- should depend on the number of jump modules on a ship

--> to make long jumps you need a big ship to fit lots of jump modules
--> smaller ships are automatically short range vessels if they aren´t specialised to be a jump ship
--> supports carrier mechanics

2. charge time of a jump:
- should depend on ratio of jump modules to the ship mass and the jump distance

--> small jumps are pretty fast (of course there should be some kind of min charge time to prevent instant jump)
--> long jumps take their time but as long as you have enough jump modules you can jump a long distance

3. jump process:
- after pressing the jump button there should be a constant power drain to charge the jump drive
- the ship should not be able to move while charging/only charge if stationary (staying stationary to calculate the jump)
- a charging animation should start immidiatly to let others know that this ship tries to jump (some kind of jump portal opens in front of the ship or something)
- a jump animation should start immidiatly at the destination of the jump (everyone at that location can easily tell that there´s a ship incoming)
- after jumping there should be jump signature for a limited time that enables others ships to follow if their jump drive is big enough (maybe with a faster charge because they just have to follow the signature)
- make it possible use jump inhibitors on the jump destination to prevent jumping to it.

--> jumping makes you more vulnerable while charging
--> jumping into an enemy sector is a bad idea since everyone sees you coming and can already aim their weapons on your position

4. jump time:
- add a travel time while jumping (immersion woohooo)
- travel time depends mostly on the distance but the jump module/mass ratio should have influence

--> it makes it possible to overtake a ship while jumping after you follow a jump signature if you have a fast ship


I think if the numbers are balanced correctly this could be a pretty good system. Warp gates would still be useful because they enable ships with small jump drive to travel large distances and also don´t have a charge time (for the ship).

I would like that very much.
Also a travel time could be realiesed as somewhat interactive subspace tunnel. I konw, the devs don't realy want to use isolated maps, but I think it would be nice as something to explore, make discoveries with in and maybe a little potential for danger.

I would prefer for a jump system based on range and efficiency. The more jump blocks you have, the larger distance you can jump. Period.

The more jump blocks you have IN RELATION TO the size of your ship, the less power it costs to charge your jump drive. As in, it takes x number of seconds to charge a jump drive, but range and power cost change based on module numbers....not time required.

I would prefer it to rather have the max jump distance dependent on j-modul/mass ratio and regulate everything else with slave systems (I think the game makes way too little use of slaves anyways).
Slaves could make the drives more energy or more time efficient.
They might be even used for additional effects:
- disabeling nearby ships at jump
- pulling nearby ships with you
- invading another person's jump and going to the same location
Just to name the few I can think of.

 

[Madman198237]

What logical reason would the jump drive's distance depend on the module/mass ratio?

Perhaps, the requirement can be to have a JD of a certain ratio in order to jump your whole ship. Otherwise, you can't generate a large enough distortion in space and time to move your entire ship, and your JD won't fit.

 

[Keptick]

What we need is hyperdrives, which were originally planned to do exactly what chain drives are used for right now (until it was "pushed back", like a billion of other features).

 

[Ghent96]

Ofc, there is nothing wrong with them as is, now. Inhibitors balance them, as well as the space needed that you lose from weapons or shields.

 

[Ithirahad]

Ofc, there is nothing wrong with them as is, now. Inhibitors balance them, as well as the space needed that you lose from weapons or shields.

Have you seen the design that's up on SM Dock? For larger ships, it is potentially 300x smaller (and infinitely more power-efficient) than an equivalent standard drive.

 

[Ghent96]

infinitely, you say? That's an infinitely large claim, with infinitesimal proof %)

Install it on a 400-600m ship. Test it. Report back your results. Calculate drive block count, mass, and cost as well, both absolute numbers and % of the total ship.

When people's servers are crashing from having multiple galaxies loaded due to someone's chain drive...
When the chain driven behemoths arrive so lightning-fast and are crushed in battle...
I will raise my glass of icegrassohol in my lounge chair 1-2 jumps from spawn and cry out, "BALANCE!" and smile.

PS - the only boundary of a sandbox, is how far someone PLAYING IN IT can throw the sand. Think about that.