Read by Council SHOP_RAILS_ON_NORMAL = true

[Lone_Puppy]

Hi,

I was thinking, wouldn't it make sense to make these both true by default so explorers can dock their ships somewhere safe.

SHOP_RAILS_ON_ADV = true //Advanced shops will have 4 rails dockers that can be used like a neutral homebase (anything docked is safe)
SHOP_RAILS_ON_NORMAL = false //Normal shops will have 4 rails dockers that can be used like a neutral homebase (anything docked is safe)


I know these shops are likely to disappear at some point in the future (hopefully when the new fleets arrive), but for now it would be a nice to have when only exploring a server.

I also realise this is optional for server admins already and hopefully they would not have a problem with it being true by default.

Anyone else think this would be a good idea, or is there some kind of balance issue or something that I'm not aware of.

 

[kiddan]

I think it makes sense having it for true by default on the advanced shops, but on the normal ones? I don't really think so, it would be useful for adventurers and such but could easily be used to avoid losing a battle and is much more balanced having the rails on only the advanced ones. It's probably best to just keep the shop rail default to what it currently is, and if a server would do better off with different settings the owner should just change the config file.

 

[Jaaskinal]

If this was on, it would be easy to set up innumerable invulnerable bases. All shops are like homebases, and can not be damaged, along with everything docked to them.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

I think it makes sense having it for true by default on the advanced shops, but on the normal ones? I don't really think so, it would be useful for adventurers and such but could easily be used to avoid losing a battle and is much more balanced having the rails on only the advanced ones. It's probably best to just keep the shop rail default to what it currently is, and if a server would do better off with different settings the owner should just change the config file.

I often explore if I'm bored with building or harvesting. Being a father of a now 4 year old and having regular household stuff to do, I don't get a lot of time to explore and then try to find somewhere to park my ship safely to go do other stuff around the house. So, having docking on the normal shops would save me time and hassle.

How someone would use these to run from a battle escapes me, especially if they're nowhere near a shop. Plus, the battle would have to occur near a shop for this to be possible and so what if they use the shop as a safety net. It's just common sense.

If this was on, it would be easy to set up innumerable invulnerable bases. All shops are like homebases, and can not be damaged, along with everything docked to them.

Maybe you could, but you need to remember there is a mass limit on what a rail can hold. When it's over that limit the docked structure tends to undock. Plus you're limited where you can't use any weapons. It's way more fun having your own space station, although I prefer planets myself.

Each to his own. I guess server admins could enable it if they wanted. I enable it in my dev build servers for convenience, where I can leave random projects here and there. I use to build loads of stations and still do, when testing weapons and defences. It just simplifies things for me having it turned on.

 

[Lecic]

Maybe you could, but you need to remember there is a mass limit on what a rail can hold. When it's over that limit the docked structure tends to undock. Plus you're limited where you can't use any weapons. It's way more fun having your own space station, although I prefer planets myself.

Uh... what? That's not how rails work. They just can't move things fast if there aren't enough enhancers.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Uh... what? That's not how rails work. They just can't move things fast if there aren't enough enhancers.

Are you sure? Perhaps I am wrong.
I often get warning messages when I dock something with a lot of mass.

When I come back to these entities at a later date or sometimes during the same session online or standalone, I find them detached.
Most of the time it's when I have multiple entities docked together creating a large mass.
However, I have found single large entities detached, but less often.

The message alone made me suspect exceeding the mass limit caused detachment.
I guess the only ones who can confirm or deny are Schine and of course Schema.

 

[kiddan]

How someone would use these to run from a battle escapes me, especially if they're nowhere near a shop. Plus, the battle would have to occur near a shop for this to be possible and so what if they use the shop as a safety net. It's just common sense.

Shops have their own unique icon in the galaxy map, a player who knows their ship won't be able to win a current battle could easily look on the map, fly up to the shop, and use their rail docker in just two clicks. It would be fair if there was a way to destroy enemies docked to a shop after a while, but in the current state having rails on all shops would unbalance most servers where PvP is normal.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Shops have their own unique icon in the galaxy map, a player who knows their ship won't be able to win a current battle could easily look on the map, fly up to the shop, and use their rail docker in just two clicks. It would be fair if there was a way to destroy enemies docked to a shop after a while, but in the current state having rails on all shops would unbalance most servers where PvP is normal.

Is this to avoid a battle or in the heat of battle. If it's to avoid a battle then I don't see the issue. Again, it's common sense.

If it's in the heat of battle, good luck with that maneuver. Especially if you're flying a heavy ship. If you're close to the shop, then it could be possible to quickling dock if you're facing in the direction of the shop and you're in range to manually fire the docking beam. If you're facing away, turning and docking could still be accomplished, but you're likely to take a few hits. If you're in another sector, you would either have to jump drive it there or use thrusters and good luck docking at speed. Although, it could be possible.

 

[cyberus111]

I'm reasonably sure the cat god could arrange it so if there is combat in the sector a shop would "button up" (a force field block in front of the rail block would prolly do the job) until the fight was over, thereby maintaining their neutrality. Also would be a good idea in a RP sense that they would have that ability to prevent force docking by pirates and other bad guys.

If the combat is/was in another sector and the person breaking off managed to get to the shop without being shot in the shops sector I'd say that gets chalked up as a successful break/escape.

 

[Nickizzy]

I'm reasonably sure the cat god could arrange it so if there is combat in the sector a shop would "button up" (a force field block in front of the rail block would prolly do the job) until the fight was over, thereby maintaining their neutrality.

The role play!!!,\0/ That sounds awsome! I would support this just for that!

 

[kiraen]

a player who knows their ship won't be able to win a current battle could easily look on the map, fly up to the shop, and use their rail docker in just two clicks.

So cut-n-run is not a valid tactic when losing? The logical and tactically superior choice is to stay and be destroyed?
Yeah, historically that has always worked so well.

Spoiler

WE ARE SPARTAAAA!!!

 

[Lone_Puppy]

I'm reasonably sure the cat god could arrange it so if there is combat in the sector a shop would "button up" (a force field block in front of the rail block would prolly do the job) until the fight was over, thereby maintaining their neutrality. Also would be a good idea in a RP sense that they would have that ability to prevent force docking by pirates and other bad guys.

If the combat is/was in another sector and the person breaking off managed to get to the shop without being shot in the shops sector I'd say that gets chalked up as a successful break/escape.

I like that!
How about the Trading Guild supporting the enemies of their enemy. If you're a friend/ally, you get assistance with allowed docking, if you not you get no docking but cannons appear to ward off any enemy.

It's actually going to go away, so it's probably not worth spending time developing for these shops. Looking at the new stations, it looks like they're being replaced with a new normal shop.

 

[Lecic]

So cut-n-run is not a valid tactic when losing? The logical and tactically superior choice is to stay and be destroyed?
Yeah, historically that has always worked so well.

Spoiler

WE ARE SPARTAAAA!!!

I think the logic is more that people shouldn't be able to easily flee to any number of free, completely invincible, incredibly common safety zones. Fleeing should not be as easy as zipping over to the nearest shop and being protected by Trade Guild Magic.

 

[kiraen]

I think the logic is more that people shouldn't be able to easily flee to any number of free, completely invincible, incredibly common safety zones. Fleeing should not be as easy as zipping over to the nearest shop and being protected by Trade Guild Magic.

Use more stop or ion effect.
Sit off their bow and wait for them to undock. Be sure to have jump inhibitors. If they log off, you've ruined their play time.
Here's one, build a framework around their ship. If they undock, they will hit the warheads. If they try to move it manually, the anti-personal turret takes them out.

Being docked means you are a sitting duck. You may be protected, but you can't stay there forever. Don't want to wait that long? Well, it wasn't that important then, was it?

 

[Lone_Puppy]

I think the logic is more that people shouldn't be able to easily flee to any number of free, completely invincible, incredibly common safety zones. Fleeing should not be as easy as zipping over to the nearest shop and being protected by Trade Guild Magic.

I'm more interested in parking than fleeing. Which is where a lot of people would use this.
Personally, for exploring I build small, cheap, light, quick craft that can out run most things when I'm in a bind. So I don't need to run to a shop. And if it gets blown up, oh well I just build another one. I also build stealth if I have the credit, so I never get seen anyway. The issue is parking the thing up when I have to attend to my daughter or some other thing in the house. I don't get uninterrupted game play.

I don't begrudge anyone who does though, since there are likely to be players who would do this anyway.
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Use more stop or ion effect.
Sit off their bow and wait for them to undock. Be sure to have jump inhibitors. If they log off, you've ruined their play time.
Here's one, build a framework around their ship. If they undock, they will hit the warheads. If they try to move it manually, the anti-personal turret takes them out.

Being docked means you are a sitting duck. You may be protected, but you can't stay there forever. Don't want to wait that long? Well, it wasn't that important then, was it?

Lol, that's evil!
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I'm more interested in parking than fleeing. Which is where a lot of people would use this.
Personally, for exploring I build small, cheap, light, quick craft that can out run most things when I'm in a bind. So I don't need to run to a shop. And if it gets blown up, oh well I just build another one. I also build stealth if I have the credit, so I never get seen anyway. The issue is parking the thing up when I have to attend to my daughter or some other thing in the house. I don't get uninterrupted game play.

I don't begrudge anyone who does though, since there are likely to be players who would do this anyway.
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Lol, that's evil!

Now, where are my warheads?

 

[kiddan]

So cut-n-run is not a valid tactic when losing? The logical and tactically superior choice is to stay and be destroyed?
Yeah, historically that has always worked so well.

Spoiler

WE ARE SPARTAAAA!!!

Haha, not like that. If normal shops all had rails that protected ships like home bases there wouldn't even be a reason to have a proper fight, you could literally just dock to a shop while your turrets do everything. It's perfectly fine for a player to retreat, be protected by a shop, or a home base. It's whether there are too many invulnerable docks floating around in space or not that would worry me, not players using them but rather the possibility of everyone using them everywhere.

 

[HolyCookie]

Lone_Puppy I'll have to agree with Lecic and kiddan I know a few people that already have problems finding pray, giving them hope that there is a safe space within the system will make them run even faster. But there is even more to it than a safe space, I knew a certain faction *cough* Vaygar *cough* that would love this feature. They will just dock station-like ships on the shops fully equipped with jump inhibitors, stop effect bullets and of course some missiles to tear away blocks. This resulting in the opposite of what you requested, a checkpoint becomes an obstacle. traveling will become way too dangerous and you can't access any shop.

I understand why you want this but the best I can recommend is have a blueprint of the ship you are flying and when you have to log out you break down your ship and put it in the blueprint. then you log off and have your ship in your pocket.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Thanks HolyCookie. I can see how this can get out of hand. Wouldn't they do the same to the Advance shop?

 

[HolyCookie]

Thanks HolyCookie. I can see how this can get out of hand. Wouldn't they do the same to the Advance shop?

They are less common thus less useful for evil factions as they would need to search for them and the chance that someone passes by is very small whereas normal shops can be found in enemy territory meaning you could wall of every shop in the vicinity of the enemy's homebase.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Interesting tactic. Perhaps shops need to be destructable and respawn somewhere else after a given time period.